Tupac and Cursing Women

[Fx44]

Been a while since Ive posted anything so hope you guys can help me out with this.

Once in a blue moon I find myself trying to defend Pac's music from the so called contious rap listeners who listen to the likes of Talib Kwali and Common. When I try to hightlight Pac's depth in his music they go on and on about how Pac was disrespectful to women in his records, but I always tend to freeze when they said that because considering all his albums before he died he never really called out B**ch in a song with out reason (especially as compared to people like snoop and maybe ying yang twins (of course the is no comparisons between them and Pac but the hovering over one topic or thought process is a sign of a lack of depth))

What im trying to get at is that which officially realsed songs on his albums before he died included unnecessary dissing of women, that is calling a woman a bitch (cause I know the r alot of tracks where he call guys b**ches too). For example a song like I "wonder why they call you b**tch" wont count.

This is interesting cause I would love to qoute maybe a line from Jay-Z where he says "do you people listen to music or you just skim through it".


Peace/Love

 

[Dante]

i'm a bit of a hip hop snob myself, but usually i find that the people who are hyper vigilant about the word bitch are so for their own vested reasons - namely they either subsoncsiously or otherwise overtly think that if they're against it they will look more attractive to women. sorry, it's true. anyway, yes, i would argue that those narrow minded people who only listen to common (who i think is vastly overrated for my own reasons), talib, roots, zion-i, and the like are only experiencing one small facet of hip hop and need to open their eyes and ears.

consider hip hop's beginnings, and how it was birthed and evolved. hip hop reflects primarily urban, underpriviledged, black youth from an overwhelmingly male perspective. therefore, in the late 70's and early 80's rapping was about three things - 1) signifying (i'm so bad because blah blah blah), 2) battling to demonstrate creativity and mastery of rhyme, and 3) social commentary of the troubles that population faced. if you only listen to numero three, well you're turning your back on a huge portion of hip hop and that's not cool. ...especially when these same people try to front that positivity is more hip hop than a spice-1 record. the simple fact is that gangsta rap is an extension of all three components of hip hop i listed, but from a different vantage point.

with regard to the word bitch, there's a lot of blame for all of us to share. blame the media for allowing the word in mass media print and video while censoring other words deemed profanity. blame the man for sucking all power and bite from derogitory words intended for men (you can call me a bastard all day and it's a compliment). once again, american hip hop reflects american culture, and bitch is used without regard sometimes. i don't think, however, that i can think of an example of 2pac being flagarant with the term, although he used it several times as a generic reference for women - mainly in the unreleased death row material. you were right, though, that he mainly used it as an insult to someone's manhood.

my longwinded reply is that your buddies need to stop being pussies and come back down to earth from that "we're so positive hip hop" we are the world bullshit. i love positive hip hop, but when they diss nwa then they obviously don't know shit about the music (bdp put out arguably the first gangsta record and it was out of... nyc).

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

bdp put out arguably the first gangsta record and it was out of... nyc

9mm Goes Bang?

 

[Morris]

I think one of the most obnoxious things people do when talking about Pac is consider Pac as contradicting himself by making tracks like Keep Ya Head Up and I Get Around. The simple fact is that some women are bitches like Pac described in tracks and some women are queens like Pac described in other tracks.

There was nothing excessive or unnecessary about the way he used the word. When he talked about getting around or in tracks like Scandalous, he was talking about women who were actually bitches.

 

[Fx44]

i'm a bit of a hip hop snob myself, but usually i find that the people who are hyper vigilant about the word bitch are so for their own vested reasons - namely they either subsoncsiously or otherwise overtly think that if they're against it they will look more attractive to women. sorry, it's true. anyway, yes, i would argue that those narrow minded people who only listen to common (who i think is vastly overrated for my own reasons), talib, roots, zion-i, and the like are only experiencing one small facet of hip hop and need to open their eyes and ears.

consider hip hop's beginnings, and how it was birthed and evolved. hip hop reflects primarily urban, underpriviledged, black youth from an overwhelmingly male perspective. therefore, in the late 70's and early 80's rapping was about three things - 1) signifying (i'm so bad because blah blah blah), 2) battling to demonstrate creativity and mastery of rhyme, and 3) social commentary of the troubles that population faced. if you only listen to numero three, well you're turning your back on a huge portion of hip hop and that's not cool. ...especially when these same people try to front that positivity is more hip hop than a spice-1 record. the simple fact is that gangsta rap is an extension of all three components of hip hop i listed, but from a different vantage point.

with regard to the word bitch, there's a lot of blame for all of us to share. blame the media for allowing the word in mass media print and video while censoring other words deemed profanity. blame the man for sucking all power and bite from derogitory words intended for men (you can call me a bastard all day and it's a compliment). once again, american hip hop reflects american culture, and bitch is used without regard sometimes. i don't think, however, that i can think of an example of 2pac being flagarant with the term, although he used it several times as a generic reference for women - mainly in the unreleased death row material. you were right, though, that he mainly used it as an insult to someone's manhood.

my longwinded reply is that your buddies need to stop being pussies and come back down to earth from that "we're so positive hip hop" we are the world bullshit. i love positive hip hop, but when they diss nwa then they obviously don't know shit about the music (bdp put out arguably the first gangsta record and it was out of... nyc).

AMAZING POST DANTE.DAMN!!!

anyone more opinions??

 

[ArtsyGirl]

I think one of the most obnoxious things people do when talking about Pac is consider Pac as contradicting himself by making tracks like Keep Ya Head Up and I Get Around. The simple fact is that some women are bitches like Pac described in tracks and some women are queens like Pac described in other tracks.

There was nothing excessive or unnecessary about the way he used the word. When he talked about getting around or in tracks like Scandalous, he was talking about women who were actually bitches.

Basically what I was going to say. Alot of people know bitches whats the problem with calling them what they are. Songs like Wonder Why They Call You Bitch explain perfectly the fact that Pac didnt respect them but hoped they could change.

 

[E-MoRtAl]

There's a reason Tupac says bitches and not women, it's because he's talking about bitches! He's not addressing all women, he's addressing a specific type of woman, it's not degradation, its analyzation. Truth of the matter is there are bitches in our society, why should he ignore this aspect? Because their women? The reason people don't mention certain problems is because they're afraid of dealing with it, Tupac never held back, with this analyzation he was just portraying what he had experienced, even trying to better these women themselves in songs like Wonda Y They Call u Bitch, he tells them what they are doing wrong, the first step to solving a problem is recognizing it exists. These people need to ask themselves if they are listening to hip-hop because someone can make two words rhyme or because there are people out there who can offer them something to benefit their own lives, motivation, knowledge, experience. Why listen to hip-hop if you're not going to accept the truth? Either listen to the motivation behind what has to be said, think about it and then open your mouth or sith there and nod your head to the beat and keep your mouth closed. Of you don't like reality then stick yourhead back under the sand, at least then no one can hear your ignorant complaints. Want a reason to call someone a bitch? Have them have you wrongfully convicted of a crime and spend time in jail were you have nothing to dobutreflect on why you're in there,in Tupac's case because a bitch put him there.
" A bitch iz a bitch"

 

[Bender]

'Bitch' has been accepted as a non-derogatory word used to address women, especially in black cultural-literacy.






Bitches call other bitches 'Bitches' !!!

 

[ArtsyGirl]

I don’t always have to do a song where there’s the good woman cause I don’t see it as being woman are all one thing. I think that all women are different. If I do somethin that there’s a bad woman people will go "oooh he hates women" Noooo look I don’t think like that but I definitely think there is a type of female labelled a bitch who there main thing is to get what they can get and they revel in breaking a niggaz heart, and taking what he owns. There’s male bitches too I mean women know there are bitches out there, I don’t know why women look surprised they know they say it louder they just think that we're saying they're all bitches, that’s not what we're saying. And that’s what I tried to do with Keep Ya Head Up & I Get Around I'm going to write a song about women like my mom or the women like my sister who I think umm represent a strong Black woman, I did that now I'm going to rap about the women that I see everyday and that was I Get Around. If I just did songs like Keep Ya Head Up it would make me seem more than what I am but I'm just a normal man.

From Tupac Resurrection :thumb:

 

[Fx44]

From Tupac Resurrection :thumb:

Nice quote artisticgurl, i forgot about that..Thankx to everyone who contributed..Guess that sums it up...if anyone has a problem with 'Real' artists calling out bitch in their records..refer them to this....


Peace/love

 

[Bombsquad]

Nice quote artisticgurl, i forgot about that..Thankx to everyone who contributed..Guess that sums it up...if anyone has a problem with 'Real' artists calling out bitch in their records..refer them to this....


Peace/love

sorry, but you can't use 2pac's logic to justify every rapper that says "bitch" because pac is speaking on his behalf only. I doubt these other rappers use that logic before they think about implementing it in any of their songs. The truth is most rappers use the word because it's all over society and what so many rappers say in their music.

Anyway, I wanna copy and paste what someone from another forum had to say about pac's using the word "bitch" when it comes to females. I hope this helps. I looked at it differently at one time also, but this posts enlightened me. I suggest you print out all these helpful suggestions.

This is it right here in italics:


Exactly no one can explain to me also the right way how he contradicted himself.

2pac was just trying to be as real as possible, but people make him out to be a positive rapper or something because he introduced himself in the rap game on a more positive approach. Just because he told men to respect the ladies and for women to respect themselves, people make it out to be, "Well 2Pac, why are you using the word bi*ch and calling women bi*ches on other songs"? With that being said, whenever he says bi*ch or something, people say he's contradicting.

What people need to understand is that Pac looked at things from different standpoints and people just don't understand. For instance females. To him, there were two types of females. The sisters, women, ladies vs. The bi*ches, hoes, scandalous.

The Sisters, women, and ladies were females who carried themselves in a respectful manner while the bi*ches/hoes were the trifling women who didn't care how they carried themselves. People think when he says bi*ch or hoe in songs like "I get around" that he's dissing the same females he dedicated songs to on joints like Keep Ya Hed Up, Brenda's Got A Baby, and Dear Mama when that's not the case. He said it himself that he looks at things from all aspects whether objects or groups and analyzes it. That's why he was so diverse, but cats just don't understand.

If you were to ask him he'd say all females are not ladies. He has explained all this and made sense, but people don't care to do research. If that's not being real, then I don't know what is. It's sad how he's misunderstood until this day. People are just ignorant.

 

[Bender]

Bottom line: Tupac's language was his forte.

 

[Dante]

Bottom line: Tupac's language was his forte.

if this isn't the biggest "well duh!" post of 2006 i don't know what would be...