The misconception of a masterpiece.

[7 Syns]

Over the years posting on the internet in different boards, all hip-hop related, I've seen alot of people post albums which they call classics or masterpieces.

The misconception of a masterpiece is usually concieved by albums which you like. But does an album which you in-arguebly love make it a classic? Well, classic, as a term usually does come from one's opinion. However I don't believe that this can always apply to hip-hop and in general music.

Classics or masterpieces, can be considered a genre-changing and/or defying piece of musical collectives. For example Dr. Dre's The Chronic or Eric B's & Rakim's Paid In Full. Both are widely regarded as classics and both 'were' genre changing, Dre's obviously sonically and Ra's more intact with the art of mc'ing itself.

So when you're placing an album in that classic catergory, ask yourself, can it really compare to albums which shaped hip-hop's mould hence forth being a classic or is it just good music?

Does choosing the later change how the album is or feel? Ofcourse not, good music is, well, good music.

I've heard a hell of a lot of albums in my life, perhaps more then half the board put together and in my view I believe, as I matured, Ive been able to catergorize which albums are classics and which are not. Albums not being classic doesn't neccessarily mean they aren't as good, it just means they didn't change anything or make an impact on the culture of hip-hop. Rather followed a trend and even though it might have/could have possibily been musically better it was still a trend follower.

So here I put down a list, of good albums and classics/materpieces observe them, go back and list to them and reply with your thoughts.

N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Boogie Down Productions - Criminal Minded
Slick Rick - The Great Adventures Of Slick Rick
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter The 36 Chambers
Nas - Illmatic
The Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...
Ice Cube - Amerikkka'z Most Wanted

now albums which might be better then some of the above, but I don't believe them to be classics for reasons stated above..

Tupac/Makaveli - The 7 Day Theory
Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt
Eric B. & Rakim - Follow The Leader
Big Daddy Kane - Long Live Tha Kane
The GZA - Liquid Swords
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Redman - Whut? Thee Album.

Keep in mind that even though I mentioned those albums classics firstly, they aren't neccessarily my favorite albums. I consider Rakim's Let The Rythem Hit' Em his best album and my 2nd favorite album is Redman's Muddy Waters.. So next time you call something a classic, stop and think, is it really a classic? Or just some great music?

peace.

 

[Bobby Sands]

What about Me Against The World?

And how is Illmatic genre changing?It was probably the last album of its kind.It didnt change anything.

 

[simo]

I do agree with what you are saying. But I find Enter The 36 Chambers & Only Built 4 Cuban Linx to be very similar albums. Both are great, but I don't think that OB4CL brought anything new to hip hop that Enter the 36 Chambers didnt.

I also think that All Eyez On Me should make the classic list. Even though it was not his best work.

 

[DrugBa11ad]

I agree with your message 7 Syns, but I disagree with your list.

7 Day Theory... how many fake copies of Tupac have we seen over the years? Or even if they wern't fake, how many Pac-type rap styles have become present? Quite a lot.

I would say that was much more of a change in hip hop then Illmatic or Ready to Die.

Just my thoughts though.

Good post.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Yea good post btw.

 

[Four Bars]

I can see what your getting at. Can't see any mention of The Blueprint (Jay-Z) which I suppose is a 'marmite-esque' album, in the respect taht you either hate it or love it.
Not a great fan but 'Doggy-style' must get a mention too?

 

[Lok]

Doggy Style = a better version of the Chronic.

I'l stick with my interpretation of an album being a "classic".

 

[Jebus]

Only Built......... changed The Game by being the first album to show and tell a complete story through the album, plus the first to use super mafioso style.

Illmatic changed the way rappers rhymed,Illmatic is the basis for most NY rap you hear today.

Makeveli did nothing new.people are biting pac's image not his music,get it straight.plus the people biting his style isnt really changing the game its just people tyring to be pac.

I agree that doggystyle needs a mention,yet now I question, is there anything in Doogystyle that we havent heard on the chronic??

Ready to blurred the Hood/riches scheme perfectly plus biggies storytelling has been used tremendously.

I would argue that You missed "Midnight Maruaders" and or "Low end Theory" and if you wanna get recent "We Are Blackstarr" and or "reflection Eternal" those album ofcourse altering the "Consicnece(sp) neo-soul style"

Also "It Takes a Nation" is the basis for any political rapper


peace

 

[HiGhTillDeaTH]

7 syns nice post. respect.

but i will say that i do disagree to a certain extent with ur list of "classics". Probably because my definition of classic is a little different than yours... my definition is as follows-an album in which i can play the entire album, anyday i choose, no matter what mood, and be satisfied enough not to have the urge to change the song that is playing.

but n e way following ur definition of classic i do believe u left an album out, let me know what ur opinion is on it. UGK-Ridin' Dirty

I believe hands down, with out a single doubt that this is a classic album:
1. Being a southern group from Port Aurthor Texas, people just blew em off as another southern rap group with little to say. This album is the exact opposite, it covers numerous aspects of life, and the words and flow are always on point.

2.Production- laid back, and the most important thing, its not all about the beats. The lyrics fit the beat everysingle song, in other words an equal amount of attention was given to both the lyrics and the beat itself creating a mood and different enviorment on every single song.

3.Pimp C singing as well as rapping. Pimp Produces (almost every song in its' entirety), he raps, and he sings. He sings in at least four songs and yet does not make the song sound corny or forced. Ecspecially on Diamonds n Wood and Hi-Life. being from the south and when the album came out (96) this was not a very popular thing around this time. And when pimp sings its not about shakin ur ass, touching the floor or in other words "Bitch Shit", it blends perfectly with the song.

4. Lyrics- unbelieveable, simple as that, they give me the chills

5.The Outro, now this is more of my opinion, but i dont know about u guys but i have never heard an Outro that is over 10 minutes long on a cd... this outro is fuckin beautiful to the ears, the guitars make u float and it is right on point with the entire cd...perfect way to tie the entire disk together....and might i add that it is perfect song to smoke a blunt to and never have to change the song, does it get n e better than that shit???

 

[DrugBa11ad]

Makeveli did nothing new.people are biting pac's image not his music,get it straight.plus the people biting his style isnt really changing the game its just people tyring to be pac.

If they are mimicing him, or his style,how the hell is that not game changing? And your image reflects your music. Get it straight.

 

[Jebus]

^^^because it was an after affect of pac's passing, therefore rap MUSICas a whole did not change. Also if they are mimicing his style then its the same fucking thing theres no difference in mimicing at all, get it straight.









2pac did spawn a legion of wannabe's but outside of the wannabe's (which we all know where just wanna be's) no one really got influenced musically.there was no evolution so to speak


Did 2pac change the way people rhymed??
Did 2pac change the way people heard music??
Did tupac make any landscape changs in hip-hop.

the only way pac changed hip-hop was by dying.




















































In my opinion(damn ima get flammed for this shit)

 

[_carmi]

i agree with 7 syns post. but i thought me too that doggystyle should be in the classic list.

 

[Bobby Sands]

No1 got influenced by 2Pac?u must be jokin kid.

 

[Lok]

How about instead of saying something idiotic like "No1 got influenced by 2Pac?u must be jokin kid.", you people will actually prove him wrong by dropping examples & what not.

 

[EDouble]

with Pac, probably the only album you could classify a classic in terms of this thought would be All Eyez.

Classic all depends on how the person views it. on an album that hella people, across the board think is great it would be hard to argue that it's not at least a 'classic' without lookin at the effects it gave way to

and watever qualifications i don't think you could leave Kane out


and lol @ Tupac not altering much. his whole person shifted the mainstream

 

[S O F I]

There has to be a criteria formed for determining what a good and what a bad album is, like there's one for determining what a good book is. Until one is created, it's all opinion, folks.

 

[7 Syns]

There are obviously more albums which could be added or taken, either way. The list is something I made as a template, not neccessarily to be used as a 'fact' data or nada like that. I did forget albums like It Takes A Nation of Million's and possibily Road to Riches which really defined a thug emcee from N.Y., important and unappreciated album at that.

But like someone said, it's all opinions. I was simply sharing mine. Cheers for the great feedback though.

peace.

 

[bastin872]

^^^because it was an after affect of pac's passing, therefore rap MUSICas a whole did not change. Also if they are mimicing his style then its the same fucking thing theres no difference in mimicing at all, get it straight.









2pac did spawn a legion of wannabe's but outside of the wannabe's (which we all know where just wanna be's) no one really got influenced musically.there was no evolution so to speak


Did 2pac change the way people rhymed??
Did 2pac change the way people heard music??
Did tupac make any landscape changs in hip-hop.

the only way pac changed hip-hop was by dying.




















































In my opinion(damn ima get flammed for this shit)

You dont know that shit, cause hes not around now 2 see how big he would of gotton...

noone can say pac only changed hip-hop by dieing cause he dident live for them 2 see what would of happend...............................................

 

[7 Syns]

I don't think Tupac changed many people like some believe, because I see Tupac being influenced by Chuck D and or Ice Cube which when layed out, they were all influenced by Malcolm and Martin as far as political conscious messages are concerned. Early 'Pac actually had a Q-Tip vibe thrown in there too 'I Get Around', the whole knowledge is power thing. Thug Tupac had Ice-T, Kool G Rap and N.W.A. influence.

Saying that 'Pac was his own man, I just think musically there were too much influences on his music to regard his albums as genre breaking. I do admitt he has influenced people, but thats based more of outside the music spectrum if anything.

peace.

 

[Four Bars]

Urm... In response to the notion of bringing something new in terms of genre, style and general originality, for example Doggystyle and the Chronic - very similar, should that justify that only one could be considered a great album. In lamer terms, eg, Jessica Simpson is fit, but she looks like Britney Spears who was Fit first, so she cannot be fit, bad example sorry.
I do understand this idea of bringing something new, and forming a new direction, for example (aps) illmatic's strong influence over NY rap I just feel, myself, that a 'classic' or a 'masterpiece' need not be a unique work.
Btw, v good post, created lotsa interest.