Static's "Look at all this bad stuff about Israel" Megathread

[Morris]

what is a reputable source for you Morris? Obviously anything that or anyone that states a negative image or story of Israel is not reputable.

In citing the ISM, we are talking about citing a source that does not believe in Israel's right to exist. You may as well cite Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Iran's president and call whatever they say about Israel fact.

Do you honestly believe people were chanting "We killed Jesus, we'll kill you too?"

no an accident is when you bump into someone in the hall, or hit someones car in a parking lot, running another human being over with a bulldozer is not an accident,

You think it's likely, let alone possible, that a guy could murder someone by running over a person with a bulldozer? These things aren't exactly NASCAR race cars. What happened was the bulldozer started moving earth, which piled up. Corrie tried to jump onto the building pile, lost her balance and fell underneath as the bulldozer kept going forward. The guy driving the bulldozer never saw her.

from what I have seen there was no tunnel only houses being demolished

Does it look like houses were being bulldozed?

 

[Kareem]

In citing the ISM, we are talking about citing a source that does not believe in Israel's right to exist. You may as well cite Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Iran's president and call whatever they say about Israel fact.

Do you honestly believe people were chanting "We killed Jesus, we'll kill you too?"



You think it's likely, let alone possible, that a guy could murder someone by running over a person with a bulldozer? These things aren't exactly NASCAR race cars. What happened was the bulldozer started moving earth, which piled up. Corrie tried to jump onto the building pile, lost her balance and fell underneath as the bulldozer kept going forward. The guy driving the bulldozer never saw her.



Does it look like houses were being bulldozed?

Those pictures are inconclusive they show the aftermath of an area being demolished that area could have contained homes or it could have contained a tunnel. Come one dude I'm a law student those pic's alone do not prove that dwellings, houses were not being bulldozed. An why would anyone protest the destruction of a tunnel?

Yes I have read the various stories some saying Rachel fell others saying she was pushed by the dozer, could have been either or. I know bulldozer's aren't fast machines they don't have to be when you have someone who is standing their ground and not willing to back down. She paid a heavy price, with her life but it was a cause she believed in.

Reports also indicate thats Israel's report of the investigation was full of inconsistency's. An its just not Rachel Corrie its the dozens of other victims of IDF brutality. Lets see we've had former IDF soldiers come forward and admit they had been told on numerous times to shoot innocent children. This isn't something new, theres many reports but you always defend Israel an say they weren't at fault.

Lets see so far, Rachel Corrie wasn't murdered, innocent children have never been purposely targeted, Jenin never happened, the USS Liberty wasn't deliberately attacked, the atrocities committed against the Lebanese in the 80's never occurred. Let me see what else I'm guessing the Israeli gunmen who ran up in a mosque an gunned down people during prayer never occurred, the King David Hotel bombing in 1948 never took place, at least not at the hands of Jew's anyway. So what else is a falsehood or has been made up by Arabs an the Palestinians?

Damn man even I can admit to wrong doing by Hamas an other radicals. But you have a very hard time admitting Israel is at fault with anything. They are the perfect, peaceful nation!

 

[Morris]

Lets see so far, Rachel Corrie wasn't murdered,

Rachel Corrie was killed in an accident.

Lets see we've had former IDF soldiers come forward and admit they had been told on numerous times to shoot innocent children...

There is no systematic Israeli policy to shoot children. Have there been examples where individual Israeli soldiers have intentionally shot noncombatants? Yes. Those Israeli soldiers are also tried and put in jail.

Feel free to give us a source about the IDF telling people to shoot children.

Jenin never happened

Jenin was a pitched urban battle with a Palestinian casualty count of about 56, over half of whom were terrorists. The IDF lost about 20 soldiers. These numbers were corroborated by the Palestinians themselves.

the USS Liberty wasn't deliberately attacked,

The USS Liberty wasn't deliberately attacked. Not only does Israel lack a motive to deliberately attack it, but the United States has U2 spy plane reconaissance tapes that prove Israel misidentified the boat.

Let me see what else I'm guessing the Israeli gunmen who ran up in a mosque an gunned down people during prayer never occurred

Of course that happened. Goldstein was a Jewish terrorist member of the Jewish Defense League and Kahane. The groups are classified as terrorist groups by the United States and Israel. Holding Israel responsible for his attack on that mosque is like holding America responsible for Tim McVeigh's bombing in Oklahoma City.

In fact, when people built shrines to Goldstein near his tomb, a bill was passed by the Knesset in 1998 forbidding the erection of monuments to people whom it considered terrorists. In 2000, several hundred police were dispatched to dismantle the shrine. After a battle with Goldstein-supporters that lasted several hours, resulting in many arrests, the shrines were dismantled. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein )

When will we see the Palestinian government condemn terrorists like that, instead of glorifying them?

 

[StatiC]

Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Ou

Interesting viewing:

p.s. I would request that you do not (as you did before) merge this in to a single "anti-Israel" thread. Thank you.

 

[Morris]

They're entitled to their opinion. There was a group of about 2 dozen Israeli Air Force reserves who a few years ago protested Israel's practice of killing Hamas officials with airstrikes.

These guys are conscientious objectors, which is fine. They also happen to be downplaying (if not outright ignoring) the Palestinian terrorism that necessitates the IDF operations, which is why they also represent a small minority of public opinion.

 

[Radafi]

Anything such as Zionist Terrorists?

There is more to it. Hamas's charter explicitly sets the goal of murdering every Jew in the Middle East. They're not merely interested in destroying Israel the state. They're an openly anti-Semitic group.

Morris, everything the Palestinians once had, the Jews stole from them. If somebody were to come to your house and throw you out of it, would you just let them? That is basically the same thing over there, the Palestinians have been thrown off their land, and I don't blame them for wanting it back. Yes they do wrong by blowing up busses and suicide missions but Israel does worse things that most people never hear of because of they way it would make them look. If Israel doesn't want to have a peaceful conversation with Hamas then how will they get anywhere. And I know somebody is going to post in here saying that Hamas doesn't want to be peaceful but all I can say is bullshit! They are humans too, they want peace. I believe that both sides deserve a homeland but the land which is now called Israel doesn't belong to them, and it never will. If this is about how the Germans treated them, then why don't they get a piece of Germany? Arabs never gassed Jews so why do they have to get treated horribly by the Jews.

 

[Jokerman]

وفاة مصرية بمرض انفلوانزا الطيور

 

[Valeoz]

Out of curiosity I heard the Israelis demolished Palestinian homes to create the plaza for their western wall in Jerusalem. I just find this information out yesterday on the national geographic channel lol. Shows my carelessness on the subject. That really sucks if they did such a thing. Is it true?

 

[Zero Cool]

Anything such as Zionist Terrorists?

@@@

 

[Radafi]

Anything such as Zionist Terrorists?

See, this is where troubles begin. When you start making sweeping generalizations about a religion or race, bad things are bound to lead from it. Jews as a people did not rob Palestinian land, certain members of the Jewish faith now living in Israel may have done this but please don't start tarring everyone with the one brush. We have enough of it in relation to Muslims and suicide bombings.



Of course. But there are problems on both sides. The Israelis seem convinced the majority of Palestinians are homicidal maniacs bent on throwing them into the sea while the Palestinians believe most Israelis are militarized invaders who want to make their lives as hellish as possible as often as possible.

Perhaps if BOTH sides looked beyond their respective positions and tried to understand that they're really not all that different perhaps we might make progress. But as long as one or both sides are hell-bent on destroying the other through violence peace cannot happen. You don't beat darkness out of a room with a brush, you turn on a light, the same way as you don't counter hate with violence, you counter it with love and peace.



In reality the land belongs to NEITHER! At the end of the day that's all it is, LAND. Unfortunately we seem to want to label this place Israel and that place Palestine. How about just living in peace?



It's not about how Germany has treated Jews. Most Jews believe that Israel is where the Jewish faith originated and lives. It's their holy land. In the same way if Muslims were kicked out of Mecca and Medina and 2000 years later they returned, would it still not be Muslim land to them?

Now that is not to justify either position, just a little perspective.

Basically you summed up most of what I was aiming at but when I wrote that, I was just not thinking straight because for most people who think about this conflict, there isn't an easy solution to it.

 

[Morris]

Morris, everything the Palestinians once had, the Jews stole from them. If somebody were to come to your house and throw you out of it, would you just let them?

The Jews that migrated there before the 1948 war were not displacing Palestinians from their homes. The lands were vacant. Even the Jewish settlers that moved into Gaza and the West Bank after the 1967 war weren't displacing Palestinians.

Palestinians who originally left the lands that became part of Israel during the 1948 war are the only ones who were actually dispossessed of their property. And it was obviously not possible for Israel to sort out who left what and why, let alone allowing people trying to destroy the state of Israel back into the state.

When the Palestinians are talking about occupied lands, they're talking about lands that they eventually wish to govern as their state. Under all law, Jews are not disallowed from living in the Gaza or the West Bank, obviously, so it's not as though that's illegal. But clearly the Jews and Palestinian Arabs are nowhere near being able to coexist in the same places, so the Palestinian territories will eventually be Jewish free.

Yes they do wrong by blowing up busses and suicide missions but Israel does worse things that most people never hear of because of they way it would make them look.

Not that this made any sense, but Israel doesn't do worse things.

If Israel doesn't want to have a peaceful conversation with Hamas then how will they get anywhere. And I know somebody is going to post in here saying that Hamas doesn't want to be peaceful but all I can say is bullshit! They are humans too, they want peace.

Israel is willing to talk to Hamas and even give them aid, and all Hamas has to do is explicitly recognize Israel's right to exist and abide by past treaties. Hamas hates Israel so badly that it can't even bring itself to do this and would rather have hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians withheld.

If this is about how the Germans treated them, then why don't they get a piece of Germany? Arabs never gassed Jews so why do they have to get treated horribly by the Jews.

Britain promised to create a Jewish state of Israel in that region in 1918, over 20 years before World War II. I don't know how many damn times I have had to mention that Israel's creation had nothing to do with World War II.

You would benefit immensely from having even a cursory understanding of the region's history before debating about it.