Religious dress in schools

[Glockmatic]

you gotta be shittin me, i dont think anyone gives a fuck about the swastikas true meaning

2 billion people (indians and chinese) understand the swastika as a religious symbol, not just nazism.

 

[Amara]

Calcuo and Teck Neex, calm down, enough with swearing and stuff yeah? If you can't debate in an intellectual and respectful manner, then WoW isn't the place for you.

 

[TecK NeeX]

There were two factors here: the swastika & Harry.

A picture of a swastika offends how many? (And I don't mean a glorified picture, just a a simple swastika)[

Harry by himself offends how many?

Me with a swastika at a low-key party offends how many?

Prince Harry wearing a swastika at a party - in which the paparazzi is in attendance - offends how many people?

Harry was more of a factor than the swastika. I see a swastika on TV, it doesn't bother me. I see it on him & I'm livid..

like you said there were two factors here: the swastika & Harry.

harry wearing the cross or the crescent, or the star of david at a party offends how many? not many if hardly any

harry wearing a swastika at a party offended how many? many! why? was it because he was a prince or was it because of what he was wearing? need i answer that for you? why was there an outrage? and would there have been one If harry was not wearing the symbol? NO, so what was the main reason behind the outrage? The swastika, Therefore the people did not care one bit about the symbols true meaning, they only cared about what the symbol reminds them of

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

harry wearing the cross or the crescent, or the star of david at a party offends how many? not many if hardly any

Let's get something straight here.

If Harry were to have a Protestant cross on - no problem for teh vast, vast majority. That said, it is a constant reminder of discrimination.
If he were to have a Catholic cross on - there is some real potential for public unrest & I think quite a few people would be offended.
If he had a crescent on - again, some unrest & some people would be offended.
If he had the Star of David - expect there to be some unrest & offended peoples.

All, bar the first, have a potential to cause outrage that I cannot gauge, but believe there is a chance that wearing any of those could turn out to be a serious problem for Harry & the Royal Family.

harry wearing a swastika at a party offended how many? many! why? was it because he was a prince or was it because of what he was wearing? need i answer that for you? why was there an outrage? and would there have been one If harry was not wearing the symbol? NO, so what was the main reason behind the outrage? The swastika, Therefore the people did not care one bit about the symbols true meaning,

They are both factors agreed? Good.

But if you or I wore a swastika it wouldn't make front page news.

I know if Harry wasn't wearing the swastika he wouldn't have the made the front page around the world but he probably still would've made the news.

 

[ImmortalTech]

A Swastika may have originated as representing good luck, but that is not what it represents today... and that is why it offends.

Why exactly does a Muslim female covering herself up offend anyone. It does not make any statements, like wearing a swastika or a KKK outfit would. And plus telling a Muslim female to take off her Hijaab (the cloth that covers the head) is telling her not to practice her religion. Telling a white supremisist not to wear a Swastika is not restraining him/her from his/her beleifs.

And for the people saying Religion should be completely left out of school, do you suggest that school should continue during Christmas?

It's funny how we have freedom of speech and freedom of expression, but these freedoms, have so many limitations.

... Giving males or females the right to be half naked but condeming them for being modest is the stupidest thing i ever heard. Do you think we would have as much Cheating, Adultry, and Rape if we were all dressed modestly?

just a question: Catholic Schools are supposedly better off in the sense they have uniforms and shit, but why is that Mini Skirts are a part of their attire at 90% of the schools... it might be a stupid question, but it just makes me wonder

 

[TecK NeeX]

Giving males or females the right to be half naked but condeming them for being modest is the stupidest thing i ever heard.

excellent point, im wondering that myself

a question for calcuo and illuminatile, would the 2 of you have the same feelings towards a dress code encouraged by a religion for females to wear mini skirts, low cut jeans, tube tops etc?

 

[Illuminattile]

Maybe I should label my posts with a disclaimer that I sometimes play Devil's Advocate. I don't genuinely think that it's OK to walk into school wearing a KKK outfit or a Nazi Swastika. I'm just trying to point out double standards. Address my points calmly and sensibly.

a muslim dress? there is no such thing, its a freaking scarf covering the hair, nuns wearing them as well, and when was the last time a women wearing the veil commited a murder?

I didn't say a Muslim dress, I say Muslim dress as in Muslim clothing. And I wasn't saying that the clothing played any part in the crime, but if you can be offended by a Swastika because it represents (to you) Nazism, surely someone can be offended by Muslim clothing because to them it represents terrorism.

A Swastika may have originated as representing good luck, but that is not what it represents today... and that is why it offends.

Again, some people could argue that Islam today represents terrorism, as I'm sure that's what a lot of people think.

i agree with glockmatic, if it doesnt incite hate it should be allowed, a cross doesnt, a jewish skullcap doesnt, a muslim veil doesnt, a nazi swastika does, a perfect example of this is the prince harry incident. the shit was the top story all over the world for like a week straight

But how do you measure whether or not something incites hatred? Someone who hates Christians might be incited to hatred by seeing someone wearing a cross.

Let's say I wore this:

That's not a Nazi Swastika, but it could very easily cause offense. But if it's part of my religion - and I believe that it is used by Hindus and Buddhists - then I should be allowed to wear it.

Let's say I wore an inverted cross, that could very easily cause offense. But if I'm a Satanist and it's part of my 'religion' then I should be allowed to wear it.

Let's say my religion says that I should be naked 24/7, should I be allowed to come to school wearing nothing?

a question for calcuo and illuminatile, would the 2 of you have the same feelings towards a dress code encouraged by a religion for females to wear mini skirts, low cut jeans, tube tops etc?

I wouldn't object to the religion as a whole, since it's not promoting anything harmful. People can wear what they want.

In school, well if Muslim clothing is allowed then so should the clothing of this religion, which is why it's a tricky issue. If people are allowed to not wear uniform because of their religious beliefs, then people shouldn't have to wear uniform if their culture or lifestyle or anything else they believe in says otherwise. It's not fair to put religion up on a pedestal and say that those who are religious are outside of the rules.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

And for the people saying Religion should be completely left out of school, do you suggest that school should continue during Christmas?

No, Christmas is a holiday.

Only the devoutly religious actually celeberate Christ at Christmas. The majority are aware of the connotations, but associate Christmas with Santa & presents just as much.

If you want an example, how many attend Church in the days surrounding Christmas & Chrsitmas itself? I myself, know of few who do this.

a question for calcuo and illuminatile, would the 2 of you have the same feelings towards a dress code encouraged by a religion for females to wear mini skirts, low cut jeans, tube tops etc?

Man, did you not read our posts?

People can wear whatever they want in their own time, but while on school grounds is a different matter.

Our problem is not with Muslim attire, it's just that in schools we believe uniform should be worn by all & if the rules are broken for some then this 'bending' of the rules should apply to all.

 

[ToopackShaker]

our school has uniform, i actually like it since i don't have too many clothes that fit me anymore

but if people mind it over here they always have the option to go to another school

but what is bad about uniforms is they are a huge money making scheme
you have to buy dress pants, a dress shirt and a school sweater/vest (no one buys the dress pants or shirts though) from this company that the board has a contract with. the prices are stupidly high.

plus i go to a catholic school (not catholic though), and this company has sweat shops with kids making these sweaters. if the board is supposed to follow catholic morals, why are they making money with a company that clearly doesn't.

earlier i wanted to, and am still trying to, bring a comedian into the school, but it wasn't approved because he has uncatholic content (light hearted ethnic humour). and wat does this company have?

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

but what is bad about uniforms is they are a huge money making scheme
you have to buy dress pants, a dress shirt and a school sweater/vest (no one buys the dress pants or shirts though) from this company that the board has a contract with. the prices are stupidly high.

Well over here this isn't an issue.

Black trousers, plain white shirt (although this rule is more flexible for seniors) & the school tie. If you wish towear a jumper it has to be black & cannot have too big a logo ie. a small logo at the chest is acceptable but not a full blown logo across the front.

 

[TecK NeeX]

but if you can be offended by a Swastika because it represents (to you) Nazism, surely someone can be offended by Muslim clothing because to them it represents terrorism.

i never said id be offended, i really dont care what anyone wears to school, represent whatever group/religion/cult you want, by all means make a law giving people the right to wear the symbol. but if you truly believe the German swastika and the veil should be treated as the same than no offence your opinion has nothign to do with double standards or rights it is derived from your hatred towards religion.

let me set this straight, if wearing the swastika is part of a belief than i agree it should be allowed to be worn by the followers of that belief, i never said it shoudnt be worm. but wearing the symbol would cause about a billion times more of an outrage than the veil would, can you see why the symbol should not be worn to school? that is a double standard but if a double standard has the ability to prevent perhaps the lives of many than in this issue it aint such a bad idea

Again, some people could argue that Islam today represents terrorism, as I'm sure that's what a lot of people think.

unfortunatly yes but the veil has absolutley nothing to do with the feelings of those who have such opinions towards islam, i just cant say there is actually someone out there that sees the veil as an article of clothing representing terrorism.

That's not a Nazi Swastika, but it could very easily cause offense. But if it's part of my religion - and I believe that it is used by Hindus and Buddhists - then I should be allowed to wear it.

yes you should be allowed to wear it, i never disagreed with that

Let's say I wore an inverted cross, that could very easily cause offense.

again you seem to think that i dont believe people should wear what their beliefs encourages them to wear, i dont

But if I'm a Satanist and it's part of my 'religion' then I should be allowed to wear it.

i agree you should be allowed to wear it and i believe it is being worn in school.

Let's say my religion says that I should be naked 24/7, should I be allowed to come to school wearing nothing?

yes you should

People can wear whatever they want in their own time, but while on school grounds is a different matter.

my question was about the wearing of such clothing on school grounds

 

[Illuminattile]

i never said id be offended, i really dont care what anyone wears to school, represent whatever group/religion/cult you want, by all means make a law giving people the right to wear the symbol. but if you truly believe the German swastika and the veil should be treated as the same than no offence your opinion has nothign to do with double standards or rights it is derived from your hatred towards religion.

Obviously I don't think they're the same, and I have no problem with the veil being worn in school. Also, I wouldn't say I had a hatred for religion. I have a dislike for religion, but not a hatred.

let me set this straight, if wearing the swastika is part of a belief than i agree it should be allowed to be worn by the followers of that belief, i never said it shoudnt be worm. but wearing the symbol would cause about a billion times more of an outrage than the veil would, can you see why the symbol should not be worn to school? that is a double standard but if a double standard has the ability to prevent perhaps the lives of many than in this issue it aint such a bad idea

Yes, a Swastika would cause offence and I'm sure that even those who use it as a religious symbol wouldn't wear it to school for fear of causing offence, but I'm saying that if you relax the rules, people could feasibly want to wear Swastikas in school.

my question was about the wearing of such clothing on school grounds

Well if the rules allowed religious clothing then it would be allowed.

If I had to decide whether to allow or disallow religious clothing...I don't know. If I chose to disallow it, there'd be outrage and I'd probably be accused of racism or anti-Semitism or "Islamophobia" or whatever. If I chose to allow it, I'd have to allow other things which could well cause offence and incite violence. I don't know what I'd do.

 

[not really ken]

Maybe I should label my posts with a disclaimer that I sometimes play Devil's Advocate.

lol, yeah you should put in a disclaimer . I noticed you do this and then get hated on when all you were doing is promoting debate.