Religion V's Science

[Amara]

But to be honest the fact that you don't even wonder or care where we as humans came from shows me your ignorance.

:thumb: Good call. lol.

 

[Glockmatic]

But to be honest the fact that you don't even wonder or care where we as humans came from shows me your ignorance.

or hes tired of thinking of where we came from. No matter how hard we wonder where we came from, will we find out in our life time? All religions have variations on how life began, which one is true? We won't know until we die, will we go to heaven, be reincarnated or just rot in the ground?

 

[Butt Rubber]

or hes tired of thinking of where we came from. No matter how hard we wonder where we came from, will we find out in our life time? All religions have variations on how life began, which one is true? We won't know until we die, will we go to heaven, be reincarnated or just rot in the ground?

thats why your supposed to form your own opinion. if you just don't care enough to figure out then that indeed is a sign of ignorance

 

[TecK NeeX]

Heavens - could all of a sudden mean ozone layer, the universe, and of course the MOST possible, just sky...

did you not ask the same freakin question on page 2 of this thread? i answered it and you had shit in reply, the word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe, the arabic word for it is 'sama' which means, anything outside our atmosphere. go grab an arabic-to-english dictionary and see for yourself what the word sama translates to. also is the sky not the universe? if we look up what are we looking at? the sky but the universe as a whole

day for allah can be any digit possible, quite good card to pull if the dates seems not to fit right doesnt it??

your point? God informs us that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning (22:47). what are you trying to say? surely you dont believe God the creator of earthly time goes by our 24 hour time interval do you?

To travel, to get out
To strike
To beat
To set up
To give
To take away, to ignore
To condemn
To seal
To cover
To explain[/B]

so this isnt changin the meaning of the original message?

where did you dig this up from? my arabic dictionary does not contain the same list, daraba does not mean to travel, to explain, to cover, to seal, to condemn, to ignore, give, set up, it has one meaning only. what Daraba means is a light tap or touch to be used as a last resort. quit googlin anti-islamic websites who have no knowledge of arabic whatsoever.

just like above, if all people read the quran diffrent then what was the original message??? terrorist have thier definition about what the quran says, and you have yours... whos wrong? prove to me that your view on it is the right one, because you cant if words differ that much.

no not just like above... because you have no case above, you are simply misled by anti-muslims whos main goal is to fool people like you who doesnt have the slightest understanding of the arabic language, a normal person like you would simply accept it as the truth because you're not fluent in that certain language. also no one reads the Qur'an differently everyone has the same meaning of it. and its original message is the same message we see in the book today. 'terrorists' dont terrorize because they misread the message, but because umm lets see a number of countries declared war on them?

I never said other languages didnt have multi meaning words?, im just raising questions about how a book wich so many follows and say havent been changed (maybe not in text, but in how you analyse it), actually has been changed due to diffrent times, yet people act blind to it, and claim nothins changed...

if the book has been changed than surely there would be many copies with different verses floating around the world would you not agree? than how come we cant find any of these changed books?

i just gave you exambles, and you cant answer my questio

how can i answer them before you even ask them? lol

 

[groobz]

OK, I actually thought that the origins of our exsistence would be important to you, but I see it isn't. I personally believe in Islam, obvious there isn't 100% proof that Islam exsists otherwise we would all be muslims. Anyway I believe we originated from somewhere, i cannot simply believe that we appeared from nothing. Islam makes the most sense to me as regards to life and how it should be lived, and where we came from etc. Judging by your past posts, you prolly think im brainwashed or somthin. You may think that im ignorant. But to be honest the fact that you don't even wonder or care where we as humans came from shows me your ignorance.
Anyway Peace im out.

ok, so because i don't wonder about something you care about i'm ignorant? listen child, you watch your mouth and grow up,, just because I don't wonder about something that we will never know about anyway, u think u can call me ignorant for that? Amara, comes in, and i wouldn't expect anything less from her bunny bum.

 

[TecK NeeX]

listen child, you watch your mouth and grow up,,

lol sorry but when i read that it brought back memories of when my grandma used to say something similar to that when i was about 14

 

[Amara]

ok, so because i don't wonder about something you care about i'm ignorant? listen child, you watch your mouth and grow up,, just because I don't wonder about something that we will never know about anyway, u think u can call me ignorant for that? Amara, comes in, and i wouldn't expect anything less from her bunny bum.

Trying to belittle people for having an opinion that differs to yours by resorting to childish name calling, wouldn't have expected anything less from you Groobz. Tupacmansion has posted throughout this thread with insight and understanding and you have the audacity to tell him to "watch his mouth". If you don't care about it or wish to wonder, that's fine but don't criticise or downplay the opinions of others if they do - that is not only ignorant but is the kind of self righteous, intolerant attitude this board can do without.

 

[groobz]

Trying to belittle people for having an opinion that differs to yours by resorting to childish name calling, wouldn't have expected anything less from you Groobz. Tupacmansion has posted throughout this thread with insight and understanding and you have the audacity to tell him to "watch his mouth". If you don't care about it or wish to wonder, that's fine but don't criticise or downplay the opinions of others if they do - that is not only ignorant but is the kind of self righteous, intolerant attitude this board can do without.

what? read the thread again lovely. I was speaking normally and answering his questions, and then when i said i didn't wonder about where we came from i got labled ignorant. ok? u want to go check that? if someone wants to attack me like that, i'm going to attack them back. your double standards are amazing.

 

[Amara]

what? read the thread again lovely. I was speaking normally and answering his questions, and then when i said i didn't wonder about where we came from i got labled ignorant. ok? u want to go check that? if someone wants to attack me like that, i'm going to attack them back. your double standards are amazing.

You know, I'm not religious either and like you I don't really care much about the issue of creation, but the difference between you and me is that I respect the fact that other people feel differently to how I do. I think tupacmanion made a good call, in the sense that, you downplayed the entire role of religion, then we he asked you a question about a particular aspect of it, you said you dont even bother to think about it! And Groobz, I have seen you complain about name calling on several occasions, so the fact that you resort to it yourself is a double standard that is trully amazing.

 

[groobz]

Tell me lovely where i dissrespected his view? i simply stated my opinion. Just because I don't feel it nessesary to wonder where abouts we come from, does not make me ignorant, and you know it. I'll say it again.. I don't wonder about the question about where humans come from, because we will never know the answer. IS THIS FRIGGIN IGNORANT? god dammit you people amaze me.

 

[Amara]

^ You disrepected him by calling him "child" when all he said was it was ignorant for you to dismiss the idea of creation and hence importance of religion, simply because you don't think it is something worth thinking about. He caught you out there "lovely." I see what you mean though, in your latter sentence that the reason you don't consider it, is because the answer can never be definitive, but really, to say that because there is no proof, it is not worth thinking about at all, is a silly comment. In the end, all I would say to you Groobz, is that true wisdom comes from thinking outside the square, and pondering the questions we find confronting and challenging and seeing as you profess to support science, I find it strange that you ignore these qualities in yourself.

 

[groobz]

yeah someone calls me ignorant for no reason then they're a child. I didn't dismiss anything,, i said i don't wonder about blah blah blah,, and that is not ignorant. so thats that. Do you wonder why i am such a lovely boy amara? i sure hope you do, because it would be ignorant not too!, anyway i'm out.

 

[Amara]

Actually, I've pondered day after day whether you have any loveliness in you, but as of yet, I have not found any proof. By your analysis this should lead me to the conclusion that you must therefore have none and I should stop thinking about it....fortunately, I'm not so dismissive.
:thumb:

 

[Yahya]

Just to follow on, whilst science may disprove certain aspects of religion, it has not, nor to I believe it will ever be capable of disproving the existence of God

I disagree and agree with you. (established) science has never disproved the aspects of Islam, otherwise, Islam would go from perfect to flawed. And I fully concur with the last point.

Minardi wrote:

yeah because if it was written in a language in wich 1 word actually means 1 word, then it would of been fucked up, today everyone can come up with thier view on what the quran tells them, so what is the original story?, the original message? in a book wich people claim never has been changed...

my question is, how can people say the quran hasnt changed when all the really important words in the quran can be changed into anything?

and to make a last examble, what makes the terrorists definition of the book worth less then your view on it??? who can tell if thier view of it is correct, and your reading it wrong so your going to hell, because you didnt follow what it originally was...

The funny thing here, Minardi, is that you're recyclin' points that I already addressed in a couple of threads. I sufficiently gave you a complete answer and yet you re-iterate it on a new thread. Are thee the characteristics of a opinionated person?

The Qur'an has only one interpretation which is based on the sunnah of the Prophet (P). The Prophet (P) interpretated the Qur'an and clarified certain issues (which are titled the Hadiths - sayings of the Prophet). In Islam, there is no such thing as clutchin' straws. We have a full complete system and hence why Islam cannot be equated with many religions since Islam is more than an religion. It's an complete way of life.

Glockmatic wrote:

the Quran is open to interpretations, just like most religions. Why do most religions have different sects? Because each interpret their scriptures differently

The reason why some sects exist in the branch of Islam is 'cause these sects reject the Sunnah of the Prophet (P). They interpretate the Qur'an on their own whims.

Minardi wrote:

1 day for allah can be any digit possible, quite good card to pull if the dates seems not to fit right doesnt it??

Elobrate your point, and be specific.

Also some words about wife beating i remember from a past discussion :

A Famous Multi-Meaning Word

The problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne" which we used to translate as "beat them". The root of this word is "DaRaBa". If you look at any Arabic dictionary you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word. That list is one of the longest list in whole Arabic dictionary. It can be said that "DaRaBa" is the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings ascribed to it in the Quran.


To travel, to get out
To strike
To beat
To set up
To give
To take away, to ignore
To condemn
To seal
To cover
To explain

quite good with lots of words to pick from, one might say "well im allowed to beat up my wife because the quran says it, another may say that all hes allowed to do is explainin the woman what she did wrong.

This is a straight copy-paste from Edip Yuksel who rejects the Sunnah of the Prophet (P) and tries to interpretate the Qur'an accordin' to his own desires.

Once again, in order to interpretate the Qur'an, you've to back to the sunnah of the Prophet (P).

Perhaps it would be wise to educate yourself about the true teachings Islam before attempt to CAP from other sect sources.

Another example is the islamic women dress code. theres the 3 rules, "But the best garment is the garment of righteousness.", cover your bosoms, and lengthen your garment. Where is there that women must cover themselves completly? The word hijab (veil, drape, mantle, covering, partition, division, divider) appears 7 times in the quran, NONE of the in reference to being a dress code for muslim women. Allah never authorized it, yet people interpreted it as having women covering themselves completely.

What you're missin' out is the hadiths. The general description that occurs partly in the Qur'an and a number of hadiths is that Muslim women should should be covering all the body except the face and hands.

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful'' (33:59)

And say to the believing women to lower their gazes and guard their chastity, and let them not display of their charm - except what is apparent(24:31)

Apparant here is interpretated as face and hands based on hadiths.

devils_advok8 wrote:

the only country where women dress like ninjas is Saudi Arabia and some other women in the Gulf.Yep, I call them ninja, cause they're overdoing what they were told to do.

Brother, why are you ridiculin' our sisters at Saudi Arabia. The sisters at Saudi Arabia were niqab which is not compulsory but their own choice. If they prefer to wear the niqab then so be it.

Islam is pretty new compared to other religions

Accordin' to the Islamic perspective, Islam was the first and only religion on earth. All the Prophets and their followers (P) submitted to the will of God. From Prophet Adam (P) to the final and last Prophet Muhammad (P).

For example, in Chapter 3 verse 52 it states:
"When Jesus found unbelief on their (the disciples) part he said: 'Who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims(submit to the Truth).'"

Glockmatic wrote:

or hes tired of thinking of where we came from. No matter how hard we wonder where we came from, will we find out in our life time? All religions have variations on how life began, which one is true? We won't know until we die, will we go to heaven, be reincarnated or just rot in the ground?

This is simply incorrect and demonstrates a sign of laziness or close-mindness. Allah (God) has endowed man with reason and intelligence. He also endowed us with conscience which helps us to find the right way.

And the self and what proportioned it and inspired it with depravity or taqwa, he who purifies it has succeeded, he who covers it up has failed. (7-10)

Any person who employs his conscience will have this great desire to know his Creator. This desire will play a vital role in his life and to a extend, his only purpose of life. He will examine information presented to him and see if they contain contradictions (since information provided by people are misleadin' and contains incosistencies). He then tries to find guidance in the Scriptures revealed by Allah (God) 'till he stumbles upon the Qur'an and affirms the Truth. Most truth-seekers followed this routine to find the Truth.

It's prescribed in man's common-sense to read any vital information that he received, however, most of them will disregard such information due the heedlessness.

Waitin' to find it out when you've passed away is way too late. You were not created in vain just to find out the truth after you've passed away.

 

[feichen]

what is this??
a battle between science and religion...
dont u see they are both part of human life
therefor they are a perfect mix and they are both needed

 

[Rukas]

Im not even going to read all this cause I know how stupid some of you are already probably being in here, fuck you piss me off just thinking about it.

Science and Religion are very similar, both are based on blind faith by dumb masses that dont know the truth, but believe what they read in a book as fact. Both have faults, both have truths. Science explains how the world works, but never answers why the world works, why life is. Religion is the beginning of science, its the spiritual side of things. Religion is the why, and science is the how. And when I say religion, I mean the belief in God or something more powerful then ourselves.

People that dismiss one or the other are just fucking retarded. If you think science has all the answers you're dumb beyond help, so please dont reply to my post cause I cant be fucked arguing with your slow brick wall mentality. Even the smartest people in the world admit science does not have all the answers. And its often flawed. And no matter how many theories you come up with, they all still fit into the context of God. A person who takes science on face value, but dismisses any possibility of God is just scared because science is controlable by man and God is not. The same goes for people that think their holy book has all the answer, you're scared and like the idea that you're somehow controlled or everything will be alright, you like the idea that something is out there looking after you. In the end, you're both as bad as each other.

 

[Minardi]

did you not ask the same freakin question on page 2 of this thread? i answered it and you had shit in reply, the word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe, the arabic word for it is 'sama' which means, anything outside our atmosphere. go grab an arabic-to-english dictionary and see for yourself what the word sama translates to. also is the sky not the universe? if we look up what are we looking at? the sky but the universe as a whole

whats the original word for atmosphere, wich was written in the quran?, not the arabic word but the english one, i want to know how people found out that this one word means atmosphere, and how did these people know exactly that the atmosphere only describes all air surrounding earth? sounds to me like a word has been pulled in another direction.

with your definition, because we can see the universe when we look at the sky, then sky and the universe is the same thing?? ohhh

and can you tell me how the fuck a word like heavens, can be used to describe all these things??? i would rather believe that heaven is just heaven as it was written, and these things have been over-read by believers, so heaven all of a sudden means universe etc, to make it fit.

your point? God informs us that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning (22:47). what are you trying to say? surely you dont believe God the creator of earthly time goes by our 24 hour time interval do you?

aight so the 7 days it took god to "built" earth, was actually only max 999,999 years x 7? or am i wrong? and this is if i use the highest figure availible, if we used the figures you quoted, it would of been ridiculously low, but lets look at the "facts" you provided, it didnt even take 7 million years from the earth was made, till we walked on it? sounds realistic.

where did you dig this up from? my arabic dictionary does not contain the same list, daraba does not mean to travel, to explain, to cover, to seal, to condemn, to ignore, give, set up, it has one meaning only. what Daraba means is a light tap or touch to be used as a last resort. quit googlin anti-islamic websites who have no knowledge of arabic whatsoever.

http://www.yuksel.org/e/religion/unorthodox.htm

yeah hes very anti muslim...

and your missing my point, i was asking, how can you say that the quran (and other religions on that case) have kept its original message, when all people have thier own interpretations of it??

no not just like above... because you have no case above, you are simply misled by anti-muslims whos main goal is to fool people like you who doesnt have the slightest understanding of the arabic language, a normal person like you would simply accept it as the truth because you're not fluent in that certain language. also no one reads the Qur'an differently everyone has the same meaning of it. and its original message is the same message we see in the book today. 'terrorists' dont terrorize because they misread the message, but because umm lets see a number of countries declared war on them?

So what your saying is that the quran CANT be read wrong?? and that fundamentalists read it the exact same way?? thats scary to me, because the imams ive been seeing speaking about freedom of speech, woman, and western culture as general, doesnt seem to bright...

and because a couple of countries declared war on a group of people wich have done terrible things and happens to be muslims, they have thier full right to abuse the quran?? so its right for them to kill in Allahs name for you??? even though other coutries doesnt attack them because of thier religion, but because of thier actions... is that so hard to grasp?

if the book has been changed than surely there would be many copies with different verses floating around the world would you not agree? than how come we cant find any of these changed books?

Like i said from the beginnin, maybe not in text, but in how you analyse it and read that text...

 

[Minardi]

Minardi wrote:


The funny thing here, Minardi, is that you're recyclin' points that I already addressed in a couple of threads. I sufficiently gave you a complete answer and yet you re-iterate it on a new thread. Are thee the characteristics of a opinionated person?

Maybe you didnt address them to well?, and like teck neex, i dont think you got my point, as this has nothing to do with earlier debates, this has something to do with me asking a question about how you people can say that something in wich can be interprented so diffrent from eachother, still claims to not have been changed...

and like i said, not changed in text form, but on how people read it... if theres so many multi words, then the message can be changed easily...

The Qur'an has only one interpretation which is based on the sunnah of the Prophet (P). The Prophet (P) interpretated the Qur'an and clarified certain issues (which are titled the Hadiths - sayings of the Prophet). In Islam, there is no such thing as clutchin' straws. We have a full complete system and hence why Islam cannot be equated with many religions since Islam is more than an religion. It's an complete way of life.

every religion is a way of life?? and like i said, this has nothing to do with the question im asking.

Minardi wrote:

Elobrate your point, and be specific.

i already did, and you know what i mean by it.

This is a straight copy-paste from Edip Yuksel who rejects the Sunnah of the Prophet (P) and tries to interpretate the Qur'an accordin' to his own desires.

Once again, in order to interpretate the Qur'an, you've to back to the sunnah of the Prophet (P).

Perhaps it would be wise to educate yourself about the true teachings Islam before attempt to CAP from other sect sources.

does it matter if its copy pasted??? the point still stands. let me ask you how there can be two versions of the quran if thats the case??? because people interprent differently or what?

 

[tupacmansion]

ok, so because i don't wonder about something you care about i'm ignorant? listen child, you watch your mouth and grow up,, just because I don't wonder about something that we will never know about anyway, u think u can call me ignorant for that? Amara, comes in, and i wouldn't expect anything less from her bunny bum.

Groobz I didn't mean to cause any offence. When I say that you are ignorant. I don't mean that you are totally ignorant to everything. You continually come into these debates and downplay any religion as BS. This shows that you don't like religion. If you weren't involved in this debate and were just minding your own business, then fair enough, I would'nt refer to you as ignorant. But the fact that you have the audacity to come on here and insult any/every religion and yet claim that you don't know or care about religion shows Pure Ignorance. As i said before I am not trying to insult you. I am just sayin research life and religion and then call it bullshit rather than blindly and ignorantly calling it BS.
P.S. I don't think you have the right to be calling pepole childish. We are all entitled to our oppinions.

 

[Amara]

Amara, comes in, and i wouldn't expect anything less from her bunny bum.

What kind of an expression is bunny bum anyway?! lol. Besides, my bunny bum was already here, so no wonder you were expecting it....