Religion V's Science

[Pacaveli-T]

This is a very sensitive topic at hand and it will vary very much just like it would for beliefs and gender and etc. Basically you have one or the other that you will believe in, one way or another every other person will have to accept that now as far as which one to choose is completely up to you, whatever makes you satisfied and you really believe in just dont let it interfere with other ppls lives. This is how a lot of wars start.

 

[TecK NeeX]

and some books writin in a way so its believers always can use an excuse when we learn someting new (an examble, "a day to god, can be 1 second or billions of years", or "A heaven to god, can be either layers of the ozone layer, the universe, or just, eh heaven!")..

what is this something new you learned that made believers use excuses? plz fill me in, also must everything be in english for you to understand? the word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe, the arabic word for it is 'sama' which means, anything outside our atmosphere. go grab an arabic-to-english dictionary and see for yourself what the word sama translates to.

anyway and as for the 'a day to God is like a thousand years to us", it was always there in the scripture long before you discovered this 'something new', so if you did discover something new which could relate to the verse than we are not using it as an excuse. it is only confirming the verse to be true, if God is the creator of our time surely he doesnt go by our 24 hour time interval now does he?

 

[Minardi]

what is this something new you learned that made believers use excuses? plz fill me in, also must everything be in english for you to understand? the word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe, the arabic word for it is 'sama' which means, anything outside our atmosphere. go grab an arabic-to-english dictionary and see for yourself what the word sama translates to.

anyway and as for the 'a day to God is like a thousand years to us", it was always there in the scripture long before you discovered this 'something new', so if you did discover something new which could relate to the verse than we are not using it as an excuse. it is only confirming the verse to be true, if God is the creator of our time surely he doesnt go by our 24 hour time interval now does he?

where did i state it was "something new"??? i said its a fucked up excuse to write a book where none of the figures and letters are concrete so they can be fixed to whatever word or figure, you like it to be in arabic...

 

[Amara]

why must we always separate religion and science? i dont see it as a battle or a competition between the 2 like most atheists and christians see it as, in Islam God encourages everyone not just muslims to seek knowledge and wisdom.

God encourages all of us to investigate and reflect upon the earth, mountains, stars, plants, animals, the creation of man and many other created things. examining these, man comes to recognize the artistry of God's creation in the world around him, who created the entire universe and everything in it from nothing.

"Science" offers a method by which the universe, and all the beings therein, may be examined to discover the artistry in God's creation, some use this method for self gain and pride while some use it to get closer to God and reach a new level of understanding his might.

Exactly. There is no need to separate it in terms of religion or science. The two are not mutually exclusive. Remember Galileo (the scientist who was persecuted by the Church for defying their beliefs and suggesting the Earth revolved around the sun) - he was a devout Catholic who believed that science was a method by which people could admire and better understand the complex universe created by God. Unfortunately after his death, the animosity between religion and science was enhanced, despite the wisdom that he brought to the world.

 

[devils_advok8]

where did i state it was "something new"??? i said its a fucked up excuse to write a book where none of the figures and letters are concrete so they can be fixed to whatever word or figure, you like it to be in arabic...

I dont think the Quran'd be appreciated enough or anyone would realize it's greatness if they didnt read it in Arabic.

 

[Amara]

Just to follow on, whilst science may disprove certain aspects of religion, it has not, nor to I believe it will ever be capable of disproving the existence of God, but that it may serve, however, as a method to bring us closer to him/her (to be p.c) through greater understanding and for that reason there need not be tension between the two fields.

 

[Illuminattile]

Just to follow on, whilst science may disprove certain aspects of religion, it has not, nor to I believe it will ever be capable of disproving the existence of God, but that it may serve, however, as a method to bring us closer to him/her (to be p.c) through greater understanding and for that reason there need not be tension between the two fields.

God as an entity outside of any religion cannot be disproved. You might be able to disprove a specific religion's idea of God, but there's no way you can disprove God. "God works in mysterious ways" is an insurance policy, to explain away things which don't make sense.

 

[Minardi]

I dont think the Quran'd be appreciated enough or anyone would realize it's greatness if they didnt read it in Arabic.

yeah because if it was written in a language in wich 1 word actually means 1 word, then it would of been fucked up, today everyone can come up with thier view on what the quran tells them, so what is the original story?, the original message? in a book wich people claim never has been changed...

my question is, how can people say the quran hasnt changed when all the really important words in the quran can be changed into anything?

and to make a last examble, what makes the terrorists definition of the book worth less then your view on it??? who can tell if thier view of it is correct, and your reading it wrong so your going to hell, because you didnt follow what it originally was...

 

[TecK NeeX]

my question is, how can people say the quran hasnt changed when all the really important words in the quran can be changed into anything?

give an example

what makes the terrorists definition of the book worth less then your view on it??? who can tell if thier view of it is correct, and your reading it wrong so your going to hell, because you didnt follow what it originally was

give an example, cause obviously i dont know what the fuck you're talkin about

yeah because if it was written in a language in wich 1 word actually means 1 word,

what language doesnt have words that can mean different things? even english has many

 

[Glockmatic]

the Quran is open to interpretations, just like most religions. Why do most religions have different sects? Because each interpret their scriptures differently

 

[TecK NeeX]

the Quran is open to interpretations, just like most religions. Why do most religions have different sects? Because each interpret their scriptures differently

no, actually all muslims follow the same Qur'an, if you collect all Qur'ans in the world you would not find a single letter different in any of them. islam has two main sects shi'ah and sunni (99% of the islamic population), not because of different interpretations of the scripture but because of political reasons after the death of the prophet muhammed (p), they both follow the same scripture, they all share the same God and the same prophets

 

[Minardi]

give an example

Heavens - could all of a sudden mean ozone layer, the universe, and of course the MOST possible, just sky...

1 day for allah can be any digit possible, quite good card to pull if the dates seems not to fit right doesnt it??

Also some words about wife beating i remember from a past discussion :

A Famous Multi-Meaning Word

The problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne" which we used to translate as "beat them". The root of this word is "DaRaBa". If you look at any Arabic dictionary you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word. That list is one of the longest list in whole Arabic dictionary. It can be said that "DaRaBa" is the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings ascribed to it in the Quran.


To travel, to get out
To strike
To beat
To set up
To give
To take away, to ignore
To condemn
To seal
To cover
To explain

quite good with lots of words to pick from, one might say "well im allowed to beat up my wife because the quran says it, another may say that all hes allowed to do is explainin the woman what she did wrong.

so this isnt changin the meaning of the original message?

give an example, cause obviously i dont know what the fuck you're talkin about

just like above, if all people read the quran diffrent then what was the original message??? terrorist have thier definition about what the quran says, and you have yours... whos wrong? prove to me that your view on it is the right one, because you cant if words differ that much.

what language doesnt have words that can mean different things? even english has many

I never said other languages didnt have multi meaning words?, im just raising questions about how a book wich so many follows and say havent been changed (maybe not in text, but in how you analyse it), actually has been changed due to diffrent times, yet people act blind to it, and claim nothins changed...


i just gave you exambles, and you cant answer my questio

 

[Minardi]

the Quran is open to interpretations, just like most religions. Why do most religions have different sects? Because each interpret their scriptures differently

exactly, religous people just cant see it.

and like i said, if one word around wife beating can differ SO MUCH in meaning and how you read it, then the whole book can be read the same way, since arabic has lots of multi meaning words...

 

[Glockmatic]

Another example is the islamic women dress code. theres the 3 rules, "But the best garment is the garment of righteousness.", cover your bosoms, and lengthen your garment. Where is there that women must cover themselves completly? The word hijab (veil, drape, mantle, covering, partition, division, divider) appears 7 times in the quran, NONE of the in reference to being a dress code for muslim women. Allah never authorized it, yet people interpreted it as having women covering themselves completely.

 

[devils_advok8]

Another example is the islamic women dress code. theres the 3 rules, "But the best garment is the garment of righteousness.", cover your bosoms, and lengthen your garment. Where is there that women must cover themselves completly? The word hijab (veil, drape, mantle, covering, partition, division, divider) appears 7 times in the quran, NONE of the in reference to being a dress code for muslim women. Allah never authorized it, yet people interpreted it as having women covering themselves completely.

the only country where women dress like ninjas is Saudi Arabia and some other women in the Gulf.Yep, I call them ninja, cause they're overdoing what they were told to do.

 

[Glockmatic]

And thats different interpretation in the religion. They follow the pillars of islam, but they read the dos and don'ts differently.

 

[TecK NeeX]

And thats different interpretation in the religion. They follow the pillars of islam, but they read the dos and don'ts differently.

no thats not different interpretations of the qur'an, thats tradition, ... "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands" what part of that dont you understand, must it be explained letter by letter for you to understand it? majority of muslim women cover up according to that, only difference in the islamic dress code is the covering of the face and the ones that do that is out of tradition

i think it cant get any more clearer than that , only a retard would try and dig up different interpetaions from that and it is you my friend


and as for minardis post, ive answered those same claims about a thousand times and most of them are from you minardi, infact the last time i answered them was about 3 days ago which you failed to reply to, is that all you got? if another clarification fo those points you raised would make you happy than im willign to do it, but you promise to reply and never bring them up again and again and again, cause you're hurtin pretty bad man

 

[Glockmatic]

women in afghanistan had to cover their entire face until taliban islamic law. You just don't understand that people can read holy scriptures differently. What part of THAT can you not understand?

 

[Glockmatic]

also for polygamy,

"And if you fear you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice; 2, 3 or 4, but if you fear you may not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one."

This allows up to 4 wives, yet some muslims believe that polygamy is restricted because of this verse

"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Some believe that men are allowed to 4 wives at any time, but some believe (because of the second quote i posted) that it is only allowed after a war when there is a shortage of males.

 

[Amara]

God as an entity outside of any religion cannot be disproved. You might be able to disprove a specific religion's idea of God, but there's no way you can disprove God. "God works in mysterious ways" is an insurance policy, to explain away things which don't make sense.

Yes, in a way that's what I meant. But it does not have to be viewed as an "entity outside of religion which cannot be disproved" because as the foundation of any religion, the fact that the existence of God may not be proven innacurate serves to strengthen the validity of those beliefs. But in terms of the more "tangeable" beliefs, shall we say, then science does have the potential to be damaging but as long as that foundational belief remains, then the most difficult questions that science cannot, at least as of yet, answer such as creation or the meaning of life, there is room for both.