Random:

[roaches]

* I saved the making of Cuban Linx article in a text file to my computer, you should to. Haven't relistened to the album, yet, I'll do it on my flight tonight back to New Orleans.

* P. Monch is one of my favorite rappers, but lately I've had a thing for simplistic lines.

"Told my mother I hustle and she said, 'Be careful.'" - Cam'ron
"I started out at 15, scared as hell." - Tony Yayo

I know I'm not the only motherfucker who thought those lines were dope.

A lot of Kanye West joints work on the same level.

* Speaking of Yayo, he's not as technically sound, but he's nice like 50 was before he blew up, and the way people claimed Lloyd Banks was when they were jocking him to pretend they were on that new new (motherfuckers claiming they up on new shit because they heard the "Best of"... get the fuck out of here)

* Ketamine makes Lynch sound better, but I'm still not feeling him like that.

* It bugs me that people associate writing hooks/choruses with good songwriting in hip-hop (I see you Curtis). Get the fuck out of here.

* I wonder if Swizz Beats takes longer to make beats now. On the one hand, he can't get away with that tantrum-on-a-Casio shit anymore. On the other hand, he just has to find the right Jay-Z line and he's got himself a hit.

* I knew that eventually this board would come around Lil' Wayne. Hopefully, by the end of this year you'll have come around on Percee P. Listen to Edan's "Torture Chamber", tell me his verse on that shit isn't ill.

* Sean Price's continued disses to Nas in his horoscopes are funny. This week: "You are a bird. Nobody. You ain't say nothing, you just lettin' it go down like that. Duke dissed your bitch, you ain't gon' do nothing. Figures."

* The Beatnuts and Pete Rock should age better than the DJ Premiers of the world, but they aren't, and that makes me smile. But still, when's the last time Preemo made a beat that was really ridiculous? It's been a while.

* You all heard that Southern Smoke 17? Fuego. But I need to hear that "Deadly Venoms" off of the new Kay Slay - Ghostface, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Lord Tariq, and Raekwon on one track?

* Rich Harrison can blow up DC hip-hop, if he chooses to.

 

[DPG iz all I C]

Agree about Yayo, im starting to like him more and more.

 

[VENOMOUS]

ive been telling yall about yayo 4 the longest.
I still need to check percee p shit out ive been hearing his name alot from a couple of associates.

 

[malek_5]

Love that Yayo line, it outshines Buck, 'it's a hood thang/that's why i'm loved in brook-layn' , but only by a little. Have you heard Yayo - 'Live by the Gun'?

'In New York city, life moves fast
Little girls get pregnant, throw they baby in the trash'

damn

 

[HitEmUp21]

* I knew that eventually this board would come around Lil' Wayne. Hopefully, by the end of this year you'll have come around on Percee P. Listen to Edan's "Torture Chamber", tell me his verse on that shit isn't ill.

Once people hear "Lung Collapsing Lyrics" they will be eagerly anticipating his solo...BTW that Edan album is pretty tight, "Fumbling Over Words that Rhyme" has been in heavy rotation on my iPod since the album was released, and I'm still loving the song with Mr.Lif.

 

[Mase]

"Told my mother I hustle and she said, 'Be careful.'" - Cam'ron

That is my favourite Cam'Ron track ever, jibberish or not.
I hadn't even given Yayo a listen before The Documentary, that inspired me to dig up some shit. He can be fucking dope.
Why dont you feel Brotha L?

 

[Lok]

Because he's a prejudice bastard.

 

[HitEmUp21]

Its understandable to me..Lynch is one of those artists who I really like but can see how others may not be able to feel the music, E-40 is the epitome of this, content and delivery may just not suit some people's taste.

 

[S O F I]

"Told my mother I hustle and she said, 'Be careful.'" - Cam'ron

Yeah, that line is tight. I'm starting to get into the Dipset and their Purple City peeps, and it's got me worried. I can't stop bumpin "Purple City Byrdgang".

 

[aloivas]

when's the last time Preemo made a beat that was really ridiculous?

more recently than MF Doom or Mannie Fresh..WHAT! Ha..not more recently than Just Blaze, though. dude is killing every possible track he's featured on. please, someone name a song he's produced in the last 3 or 4 years that's been wack. his track on the new b. sigel was dope as hell, aswell.

speaking of the b. coming, it's great. assuming you've heard it roaches, what did you think? your boy Bun-B killed his verse. i was kind of disappointed looking at the producers cos i thought there was a severe lack of JB, but all the producers did they damn thing, including Heavy D..now there was a suprise.


and don't be ashamed of liking Dipset...any of you.

Dipset > The whole Definitive Jux label combined.

so far, they've made 6 albums (not including pre-come home with me cam) and only really failed once, with the second Diplomatic Immunity.

*heads over to u-mad.net and watches the video for "Push It 2004"*

 

[roaches]

more recently than MF Doom or Mannie Fresh..WHAT

Go listen to The Mind of Mannie Fresh and The Carter again, as far as Mannie Fresh goes. As far as Doom - you trying to tell me that "Hoe Cakes", "Kookiez", and "Rapp Snitch Knishes" weren't off the hook?

Ha..not more recently than Just Blaze, though. dude is killing every possible track he's featured on. please, someone name a song he's produced in the last 3 or 4 years that's been wack.

The beat he gave Talib Kweli is one of the better ones on that album, but it's still lame.

what did you think?

I'll probably end up buying it.

Dipset > The whole Definitive Jux label combined.

Come on now. Def Jux's best > the Diplomats' best. I know the Dips got the innanet going more nuts than Paul Wall, but they're 70% swagger, 30% dope music.

Purple City dropping on Babygrande and El-P working with Ghostface gives me hope for Vast Aire, Cam'ron, JR Writer, and Vordul uniting on beat for Harlem's sake, though.

 

[aloivas]

Go listen to The Mind of Mannie Fresh and The Carter again, as far as Mannie Fresh goes. As far as Doom - you trying to tell me that "Hoe Cakes", "Kookiez", and "Rapp Snitch Knishes" weren't off the hook?

DJ Premier is as vintage NY as they come, and in 2002 he made a better southern beat than Mannie Fresh has ever made, or will ever make. Mannie can be dope, though. I haven't heard his solo but i enjoyed most of his beats on The Carter - they bang hard.

Is "Hoe Cakes" a.k.a "Super"? If so, i love it to death, but it's still not on the same level as, say, a "2nd Childhood".

The beat he gave Talib Kweli is one of the better ones on that album, but it's still lame.

I kinda agree. Still...you know you're doing something right when you've got the stand-out track/s on every album from Jay-Z, Talib Kweli, The Game, Beanie Sigel, Fabolous, Usher, Young Gunz, Freeway, Memph Bleek...who else..

Come on now. Def Jux's best > the Diplomats' best. I know the Dips got the innanet going more nuts than Paul Wall, but they're 70% swagger, 30% dope music.

I enjoy Dipset's music way more than anyone's on Def Jux bar Murs, old El-P and the very occasional RJD2.

 

[roaches]

DJ Premier is as vintage NY as they come, and in 2002 he made a better southern beat than Mannie Fresh has ever made, or will ever make.

That beat was not southern. Come on. Just because one of the south's finest spit on it does not make it a southern beat. That was, like you say, a vintage NY beat. "Child'z Play" was less NY than "Doobie Ashtray".

And I don't know how you'd even compare "Doobie Ashtray" to Mannie Fresh's entire career. If you want to front on MF like that, all I can say is that New Orleans still gives love to Chopper City and 400 Degreez, and.... (this could go on for a while), while The Sun Rises in the East will get you blank stares from the average NY head. DJ Premier's best-known beat is for Limp Bizkit, for fuck's sake.

As for "2nd Childhood", that's pretty much generic as Preemo beats go. Chopped up sample, scratched hook. Wow, way to break the mold there, Chris. When I heard that for the first time, I thought, "Oh, there is more than one good song on this Nas album." "Hoe Cakes" is pretty much a college radio classic at this point.

Someone needs to beat some dopeness into Premier with that sword Guru's holding on his latest album cover, because if he doesn't preserve his legacy, Mannie will be replacing him in the top ten.

 

[one mc on dj]

Roaches you mentioned Edan...I never heard of this guy til a couple of weeks ago or so but hm..Im feeling his rapping but I think I still have to give his album Beauty & The Beat some time. I like that Fumbling Over Words That Rhyme track but like I said I think I need to give his album some time..

 

[aloivas]

yo roaches, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. I'm not really in the mood for debatin' and i'm about to go to sleep, but i might be back to respond properly to your last reply at a later time.

I will say this quickly, though..

..I can't believe you're complaining about Premo being "generic"..Forget the fact that he completely broke the mold by producing songs for Devin and Cee-Lo (don't pretend you could tell "Evening News" was done by Premo when you first heard it), of all people - but i remember you complaining about NY losing it's vintage style and incorporating too many styles from other regions, and now you're shitting on Premo, who is the epitome of NY hip hop production, for trying to preserve NY's original sound. Suddenly NY's vintage sound is "generic". I don't get it..clear this up if you get a chance.

peace.

 

[aloivas]

That beat was not southern. Come on. Just because one of the south's finest spit on it does not make it a southern beat. That was, like you say, a vintage NY beat. "Child'z Play" was less NY than "Doobie Ashtray".

I don't know how you can say that beat is not southern. It is a very good hip hop interpretation of a southern blues song. The guitar licks are in no way at all what anyone would consider Premo or NY. Just because there's a scratched vocal sample in there, doesn't mean it's not southern. They sample down there, too. Listen again, imagine MOP or Freddie Foxx spitting over it, then come back.

And I don't know how you'd even compare "Doobie Ashtray" to Mannie Fresh's entire career. If you want to front on MF like that, all I can say is that New Orleans still gives love to Chopper City and 400 Degreez, and.... (this could go on for a while), while The Sun Rises in the East will get you blank stares from the average NY head. DJ Premier's best-known beat is for Limp Bizkit, for fuck's sake.

So NY heads don't remember Illmatic? They don't still give love to Ready 2 Die or Life After Death? Reasonable Doubt is completely forgotten is it? People were excited about Stillmatic because it was supposed to be Nas taking it back to the old school and rhyming over producers like Premo. Wasn't "It's All Real" getting plenty of spins on MTV a year ago? Yes, people were loving that song because Pitch Black are like totally reknowned for their dope music...hang on, wasn't the second single on the album the other Premier-produced song? (may be wrong about this). I even heard Royce's "Hip-hop" being played out of a car stereo in Australia...Not one long-term Nas fan heard Streets Disciple and didn't think "Where's the Premier beat?"

Mannie Fresh gets love from his home city and love from the rest of the south. DJ Premier gets love from his city, his coast, his country and INTERNATIONALLY. Devin and Cee-lo recruit Premier for their album. lol @ O.C. and Jeru recruiting Mannie Fresh for their's.

As for "2nd Childhood", that's pretty much generic as Preemo beats go. Chopped up sample, scratched hook. Wow, way to break the mold there, Chris. When I heard that for the first time, I thought, "Oh, there is more than one good song on this Nas album." "Hoe Cakes" is pretty much a college radio classic at this point.

see post above.

and lol @ "college radio classic". Memorable.

Someone needs to beat some dopeness into Premier with that sword Guru's holding on his latest album cover, because if he doesn't preserve his legacy, Mannie will be replacing him in the top ten.

DJ Premier could fart on record, loop it a hundred times, do this for 10 albums, never make a proper beat again and Mannie Fresh would never pass him on a top ten list.

 

[roaches]

I don't know how you can say that beat is not southern. It is a very good hip hop interpretation of a southern blues song. The guitar licks are in no way at all what anyone would consider Premo or NY. Just because there's a scratched vocal sample in there, doesn't mean it's not southern. They sample down there, too. Listen again, imagine MOP or Freddie Foxx spitting over it, then come back.

Well, there is a scratched sample in there. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. The only thing that makes it feel remotely southern to me is the way it's slowed down. It sounds almost screwed. I can meet you halfway on it, I guess. And citing M.O.P. and Freddie Foxx as examples is unfair. They'd sound out of place on that beat, but so would 3-6 Mafia.

So NY heads don't remember Illmatic? They don't still give love to Ready 2 Die or Life After Death? Reasonable Doubt is completely forgotten is it?

Even Nas doesn't remember Illmatic, lmao. If you go around New York, people are bumping 50 or the latest Kay Slay or whomever mixtape. I can be in even a nice (aka white) neighborhood in uptown New Orleans and a car will drive by bumping It's All On You or Ghetto D.

People were excited about Stillmatic because it was supposed to be Nas taking it back to the old school and rhyming over producers like Premo.

Naw, it was just supposed to be Nas making a comeback. Street's Disciple was the one that was supposed to take it back. As for the Biggie LPs - thank the dead rapper factor for that. Reasonable Doubt is a beneficiary of revisionist history.

Wasn't "It's All Real" getting plenty of spins on MTV a year ago? Yes, people were loving that song because Pitch Black are like totally reknowned for their dope music...

I never saw that shit outside of Rap City. I never saw anyone outside of a message board talk about it, never heard it on the radio, and the only time I heard it in a club was when a DJ was spinning before an underground show.

[quote\hang on, wasn't the second single on the album the other Premier-produced song? (may be wrong about this).[/quote]I didn't even know they had a second single, lmao.

I even heard Royce's "Hip-hop" being played out of a car stereo in Australia...Not one long-term Nas fan heard Streets Disciple and didn't think "Where's the Premier beat?

I don't trust long-term Nas fans. They're a different beast than hip-hop heads in general, and if they're long-term fans that means they stayed loyal even through 1996 and 1999.

As for Royce getting bumped in Australia... that doesn't have shit to do with the average NY heads.

lol @ O.C. and Jeru recruiting Mannie Fresh for their's.

Jeru's reduced to bitching in interviews about Ja Rule somehow stealing his name, and the only market that wants to hear O.C. is Japan.

and lol @ "college radio classic". Memorable.

*shrug* You can hate if you want. College radio is what preserved and drove underground hip-hop until the Internet blew up. Nas spat "One Time for Your Mind" for the first time on college radio. Biggie was on college radio before he blew up. College radio fueled Company Flow and it's college radio kids who've turned your beloved Diplomats into hipster icons.

DJ Premier could fart on record, loop it a hundred times, do this for 10 albums, never make a proper beat again and Mannie Fresh would never pass him on a top ten list.

Yeah, but instead he's alienated the gatekeepers of hip-hop and the people who made him who he is, and let Gang Starr tarnish his legacy.

 

[aloivas]

Fair enough on most of those points.

But i still don't fully understand your gripe with recent Premo...what are you saying you want him to do? You're saying he should switch up his style and break away from the mid-90's NY sound altogether, which he's already shown he can do? He even switched up his drums a couple of years back. Or are you saying he should try and help preserve that particular style that separated the east from the south/west a while ago? Or are you thinking he should retire all together and just preserve his own legacy? Maybe he should stop producing and just continue DJing..his mixtape last year was good.

Yeah, but instead he's alienated the gatekeepers of hip-hop and the people who made him who he is, and let Gang Starr tarnish his legacy.

Can you elaborate on this...how has he alienated the people who made him who he is?
You're saying Gang Starr tarnished his legacy because their last album wasn't quite up to standard?

 

[roaches]

But i still don't fully understand your gripe with recent Premo...what are you saying you want him to do?

Make dope shit, that's all I ask of anyone who makes hip-hop. I'm saying "It's All Real" and "2nd Childhood" are formulaic and generic now, but that's partially me being a dick. I'm pretty sure I was one of the first ones on this board posting about the Pitch Black joint, and I've maintained that "2nd Childhood" is one of two joints I like on that Nas album.

But at the same time, I would like him to switch it up. More "Doobie Ashtray", "Evening News", less "Stick to the Point". That's just a personal preference.

Can you elaborate on this...how has he alienated the people who made him who he is?
You're saying Gang Starr tarnished his legacy because their last album wasn't quite up to standard?

When he won an award at the Mixtape Awards, don't remember which year, instead of giving an acceptance speech, he bitched out all of the DJs and said they were ruining hip-hop, went into a litany of complaints against everyone/everything, etc. (Think the rant before "Peace of Mine" on the last GS album, but drawn out). Basically biting the hands that feed him. It was gully of him and all, but no one in the industry really calls Preemo for remixes and beats anymore. And he can't even back that shit up by making a hot album or anything now, can he?

As for Gang Starr - The Ownerz was wack, I think we can all admit that to ourselves now (aside - I still like Jadakiss's verse, and "PLAYTAWIN", and the Smiley joint could've gone somewhere). Leading up to the album, Premier and Guru had nothing but complaints to give in interviews. They complained about the label, they complained about getting bad reviews, etc. No one wants to hear that shit constantly. Then the album came out and they toured with Common to support it. They complained about being on a Coca Cola tour. Guru kept on getting drunk and antagonizing audiences. When they were asked about that shit in interviews, they complaiend some more. That shit leaves a lasting impression. It's excusable, if you're lovable like ODB or if you're making hot shit, but GS didn't do that. They gave half-assed product, supported with half-assed shows, constantly bitched... they had a nation of millions begging them to just fucking retire.

Instead, we get Premier buying his old favorite studio and camping in there and Guru doing this:

Really, what the fuck? Guru isn't Premier, but there's definitely a strong association in my mind.

And, really.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT.