Pete Rock's influence stretched beyond hip-hop?

[7 Syns]

sorry repost.

Today I was listening to the built in radio Foxtel (Aus) has, it's got some 40 channels of all different genre's (all hip-hop channel included). Anyways I decided to go to the Lounge channel where they play alot of St. Germain, Groove Armada and Kinobe (you know the real laid back groove incorporates) and I couldn't help but notice that in 1 hour almost every track that came on sounded like a Pete Rock made instrumental.

The whole lay-out of the beats sounded fresh out of a Pete Rock manual, it really had me tripping and got me thinking. "Is Pete Rock's influence stretched far beyond hip-hop?". Because alot of these songs were made after Mecca & The Soul Brother, Main Ingredient and that EP they had early 94.

What do you think?

peace.

 

[roaches]

Is it a Petestrumental or Surviving Element joint?

Regardless, it's not a stretch. A lot of those nu-jazz / broken beat types are clearly influenced by hip-hop, and Pete's style is pretty easily reproduced (part of the reason he fell off, imo).

 

[7 Syns]

No, it's none of those joints. One joint was straight from Groove Armada fame. I don't think he really fell off, he tried a new approach at his music and some I guess didn't sound as good as previous works.

peace,

 

[aloivas]

A lot of his instrumental work fits the mould of other genres - house, lounge, breakbeat, etc. In fact, like roaches was saying, those genres use a lot of the same samples used by hip hop artists/producers like Pete Rock, DJ Jazzy Jeff, Jay Dee, Q-Tip, Large Professor, whoever. House and hip hop are actually very closely intertwined - Pete Rock was featured on Volumes 4 & 5 of Mushroom Jazz (one of house music's most popular series) along with a gang of other hip hop artists including People Under The Stairs (these guys are like half-house anyway), Jurassic 5, The Strange Fruit Project, Zion I and Mr. Lif.
And i remember Jazzy Jeff had that house joint as the last track on his "The Magnificent" album.

 

[Frank Grimes]

i would of thought most rapper's/producers music influences would stretch beyond hiphop

 

[7 Syns]

i would of thought most rapper's/producers music influences would stretch beyond hiphop

with pop music not included then fuck no.

only the one's who really reach at something mass-appealing have a beyond hip-hop influence. which many rappers/producers don't. matter of fact its usually the opposite, other genre's influence/d hip-hop.

peace.

 

[roaches]

Um, no. Hip-hop has had a major influence on all music.

Painting as broadly as possible:

R&B - Hip-hop killed them
Rock - Beyond the Neptunes recording rock albums and Dr. Dre working with rock bands or rappers appearing on rock records, hip-hop's had an impact on bands from Radiohead to Incubus to Linkin Park to Slipknot and beyond. They incorporate sampling, use hip-hop style DJing, imitate the Bomb Squad, etc.

Can anyone name how an outside genre of music influenced hip-hop?

 

[ARon]

I know that Bambatta got his shit from some German "techno" group.

But with the likes of Marvin Gaye, Sam Cook, Al Green, Teddy Pendagrass, Stevie Wonder, Prince, and so on and on and on, have all influenced Hip-Hop. Hip-Hop hasn't been around that long and most of the artists like Rakim, Kane, G Rap, Bambatta, whoever you name from the 80's most likely didn't grow up on Hip-Hop like most of us. If it's from Pharcyde sampling Teddy P, Pac and so on with the Isley Bros., Luda and Curtis Mayfield, rappers have been sampling forever. That's influence. I almost want to say that it is stupid to think that any genre hasn't infliuenced another.

 

[roaches]

I know that Bambatta got his shit from some German "techno" group.

He sampled Kraftwerk, that's all.

Sampling does not equal influence. You think De La Soul were influenced by the Turtles? Lol.

 

[ARon]

Lmao at De La Soul comment.
Nah I'm talking about the samples that had impact, ones that I would consider something other than sounding good. They sampled this artist for a reason type thing. They had influence and showed it. That's why I named those artists and not, hah the Ninja turtles.

 

[roaches]

What's the impact, though? I'm not seeing it.

 

[ARon]

How can you not see how Marvin Gaye impacted every artist after him? When an artist samples him it is like paying tribute in some cases. Those are the ones I'm talking about.

 

[roaches]

Paying tribute to someone and being influenced by someone are two different things.

Break it down for me:

http://the-breaks.com/search.php?term=marvin+gaye&type=0

I see no common thread in all of these hip-hop songs that shows how Marvin Gaye's music had an impact on hip-hop music, or even on the individual producers of those songs.

 

[7 Syns]

hip-hop has had a major influence, but it's because of a few individuals/groups with talent and/or style that made it possible. to say most rappers/producers is obsurd.. because most rapper's/producer's just copy whats already out. believe what you want.

as for outside genre's, rock & roll/70's R&B/p-funk all had their fair share of influence on hip-hop.


peace.

 

[roaches]

as for outside genre's, rock & roll/70's R&B/p-funk all had their fair share of influence on hip-hop.

What was their influence, though? Show and prove. "Dr. Dre sampled George Clinton" isn't the same as The Strokes appropriating the Velvet Underground.

 

[ARon]

So I think I'm trying to make this something smaller that it should be. Hip-Hop is broad and I'm tyrin to say this artist was influenced by this artist, which is wrong.

So where did the influence of the sound of Hip-Hop come from? Kool Herc comes from Jamaica, maybe reggae, similar drum patterns? Run DMC said they were pretty much looping Aerosmith and rhyming on that, is it rock? Many similarities between the drum patterns of 70's r&b and p funk sysns was talking about and Hip-Hop so is it that?
I'm about to make Hip-Hop sound like the pinnacle of music, well to me it is, but since Hip-Hop emerged so late Hip-Hop is like almost all genres rolled into one.

 

[7 Syns]

What was their influence, though? Show and prove. "Dr. Dre sampled George Clinton" isn't the same as The Strokes appropriating the Velvet Underground.

well first and foremost their influence was simply by rocking a crowd, because to narrow everything down to the core an M.C. is someone who get's the crowd hyped. (But not the same as a hypeman?.) An emcee originally was a microphone controller though thats not where the word mc/emcee spans from..

original emcee's were heavily influenced by the music which represented their era's respectively. Most emcee's at the beginning of the 80's were heavily intuned for the most part to music of the 70's. Which happened to be P-Funk eg. George Clinton, emergence or re-emergence of R&B eg. Marvin Gaye/Jackson 5/The Temptations and even the Rock & Roll/pop rock which dominated eg. Aerosmith. Even though hip-hop has evolved to the point where recognising the elements of Funk, Rock and so-on are hard to hear by it's the same as any other genre thats evolved.

What I mean by that is, rock & roll had it's influences at one stage aswell. Chuck Berry, Elvis and so on. But listening to modern rock these days and it'd be hard to spot it. Hip-hop is the same in my view. Afrika Bambatta sounded like a rock & roll/p-funk fusion. Grandmaster Flash sounded like chopped beats from The Temptations where the artists was lulla-ba'ing even though I don't believe thats their exact sounds or perhaps even music influences period, I can definately see elements which make it an influence of music nether the less.

The best example I can think of recently is Blueprints album, "1988" every song seems influenced not by just a different emcee (eg. slick rick/krs/kane) but by a few different genre's. If I remember correctly there's a few rock influenced tracks on it. I mean even pop influence rap, just look at how the way singles are made these days are compared to say 1990.. Back then we'd have probably 10 artists doing pop singles (Hammer, Fresh Prince and so on) these days it's 90% of the mainstream community

does that make sense at all?

peace.

 

[roaches]

No, not at all. I'm completely unconvinced.

"____ sounds like P-Funk"
"____ sounds like the Temptations"
"____ sounds like a rock group"

Probably because ______'s producer sampled funk records or the Temptations or rock groups. Just becuase you sample a record doesn't mean you're influenced by it. Dr. Dre sampled over a dozen records to make "100 Miles & Runnin". What's more plausible: NWA was influenced by the performer on each of those dozen records, or that Dr. Dre was influenced by the rap group Public Enemy who pioneered that production style?

Hip-hop developed as the product of a few individuals's innovations, and I doubt anyone on this board can demonstrate how it was musically influenced by outsiders in any way besides saying "____ sampled _____, that means...".

 

[ARon]

By sampling somone though isnt that being influenced by them? When I hear a sample the thing i think of next is damn this drum pattern does this so i should do this and add that, blah, wahtever. It makes me think, it influences me.

 

[7 Syns]

I doubt anyone can demonstrate how it wasn't influenced musically by outsiders either, because regardless of your opinion or my opinion we won't know the true circumstances regarding hip-hop being influenced bu different genre's until you or I personally ask the pioneer's if they had any musical influences which Im sure, 100% they will all say yes to.

I stand by my statements however, I see enough elements of different genre's to say hip-hop has been influenced by them.

With that said the Dr. Dre comment which you made however, had Dre sampled Funk a few times only then yes I'd agree with you 100%. But more then 90% of The Chronic is funk, damn it was even titled G-Funk due to that fact. Had Dr. Dre never been influenced by George Clinton's P-Funk then how could The Chronic be what it is?

peace.