Pac's Life Release Party & Celebration

[PELLA]

celebrating what? another SHIT album by Makaveli? no thanks.

 

[Morris]

1. Pac's "inevitable journey back to jail" was the result of the fight he had the night he was shot. The whole operation was probably already set in place by then.

Pac was out on bail pending appeal. Even if he hadn't violated his parole by beating Anderson that night, he was probably still headed back for the sodomy case.

And it'd be a rather large coincidence that the government was planning to use gang members to pull a hit on Pac the very same night that Pac punked a Crip in the MGM Lobby. Talk about grasping at straws.

This gang probably had ties with some Police Department. That Police Department probably had ties with some bigger agnecy.

According to your theory, someone had a Southside Compton set of gang members pull a hit in Las Vegas. Do you not see the problem with this? That would require LV Metro, probably the Compton police, and who knows who else all in on it. Why would Compton Crips have ties to Las Vegas cops?

Very probably the Crips themselves, which also links well with the fact that Orlando Anderson just happened to be in the MGM that night with no apparent reason at all..

People other than celebrities go to high profile boxing matches, especially when Las Vegas is within driving distance of Compton and LA.

Dont get all Shakesperian on me !!!

I always use a strong adjective when describing how poorly Anderson shot up that car. Compare Pac's shooting to the aim by whoever killed Biggie.

 

[lii]

so now ur saying 2pac would be killed by "the agency" bcuz he had the potential to be a threat but there are SOO many ppl who have and had the potential... public enemy changed laws, they had potential, same with nwa and all they got was a letter, the list goes on. ur reaching and its kinda dillusional

 

[NazihHawi]

Pac was out on bail pending appeal. Even if he hadn't violated his parole by beating Anderson that night, he was probably still headed back for the sodomy case.

Pac was acquited of the sodomy charge. It was a "sexual harrasment" case he was convicted of.

And it'd be a rather large coincidence that the government was planning to use gang members to pull a hit on Pac the very same night that Pac punked a Crip in the MGM Lobby. Talk about grasping at straws.

According to your theory, someone had a Southside Compton set of gang members pull a hit in Las Vegas. Do you not see the problem with this? That would require LV Metro, probably the Compton police, and who knows who else all in on it. Why would Compton Crips have ties to Las Vegas cops?

I dont wanna really keep discussing this. This is something i believe might have happened, and obviously u dont. I cant convince u of something i dont have any proof of. The difference between us is that i dont really need proof. What i believe in naturally implies the none existence of proofs, because "agencies" have been pulling out much larger hits/operations throuought the whole world without leaving a trace, and usually leaving many as scape goats.. So all what you're saying, it's probably true. But it doesnt totally negate the possibility of what i think might have happened.

... Compare Pac's shooting to the aim by whoever killed Biggie.

So who killed Biggie?!

 

[NazihHawi]

so now ur saying 2pac would be killed by "the agency" bcuz he had the potential to be a threat but there are SOO many ppl who have and had the potential... public enemy changed laws, they had potential, same with nwa and all they got was a letter, the list goes on.

Maybe.. maybe not.. But to my knowledge, none of them came from a family of Black Panthers, Activists and "Political Prisonners".. Maybe none of them had the edge that Pac had, and maybe i say this cause i'm a crazed Pac fan, but i dont see any of them having as much status and power as Pac had in 96..

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ur reaching and its kinda dillusional

Not that this is anyhow similar, but u know, this is what they said to Copernicus when he said that the Sun was the center of the solar system, and not the Earth.. This is what they said to Gallileo when he said that the Earth is round and not flat.. This is what they said to men who believed that, one day, humans will fly.. This is what they said to people who believed that, one day, humans will step on the moon....
So my point is that no matter how different are those issues from what we're discussing here, it's always better to say "I vehiemently dont believe in what ur saying, but u know what, it's a possibility..." than "ur reaching and its kinda dillusional".
So no, i'm not "delusional", i'm just willing to accept some "crazy" theories.. At least accept that they are a possibility.

 

[Morris]

Pac was acquited of the sodomy charge. It was a "sexual harrasment" case he was convicted of.

No. First of all Pac wasn't acquitted of any charge. The rape charge was dropped to sodomy - the forcible touching of the girl's ass. He was convicted of it and thus sentenced.

Sexual harassment was never a part of the charges.

Does that mean Pac did it? Of course not, and I'm as 100% sure of his innocence as I'm guessing you are. But that's what he was convicted of.

What i believe in naturally implies the none existence of proofs, because "agencies" have been pulling out much larger hits/operations throuought the whole world without leaving a trace,

Which is why it would make no sense to leave so many traces, like a caravan and public street's worth of potential witnesses, the shell casings, the image and make of the car used etc. A well planned hit would never go off so sloppily.

So who killed Biggie?!

Perhaps this is the case where you should be looking for crooked cop connections :thumb:

this is what they said to Copernicus when he said that the Sun was the center of the solar system, and not the Earth.. This is what they said to Gallileo when he said that the Earth is round and not flat..

Their observations were based on scientific findings of fact. You admittedly are basing your assumptions on theories that naturally have nonexistent evidence.

(And for the record, Galileo was persecuted for saying the Earth revolved around the sun )

maybe i say this cause i'm a crazed Pac fan,

Bingo. A lot of people on this board overstate Pac's significance nationally. Look, I think he was the greatest rapper of all time by far, and he has had arguably the greatest influence on rap music. But by 1992, the impact of hip hop had peaked in terms of what the federal government was trying to do about it.

By 1996, Pac was a huge star in his musical genre, but to the government he would still be small potatos. Rage Against The Machine was wildly popular around the same time, attacked the government stronger and with more frequency, and Zach De La Rocha is still around.

Nobody wants to believe someone as important to them as Pac could be taken out by a street scum like Orlando Anderson. Nobody wants to believe someone as important as President Kennedy could be taken out by an insignificant scum like Oswald. That's why conspiracy theories persist with us: we don't want to believe in something so small.

 

[Morris]

Edit: Accidental double post.

 

[NazihHawi]

No. First of all Pac wasn't acquitted of any charge. The rape charge was dropped to sodomy - the forcible touching of the girl's ass. He was convicted of it and thus sentenced.

Sexual harassment was never a part of the charges.

Man what the hell are u talking about?!!!! Look, i may have used some wrong terminology in the word "harassment" instead of "abuse", but seriously, u never read about the case nor watched the "Resurrection" movie at least?!! And how in God's name is Sodomy = "the forcible touching of the girl's ass"???

Well, 1st of all, sodomy is most commonly defined as "genital anal sex between a male and a male, or a male and a female". I think that in this case, the term was used in its common context, and not in reference to "touching the ass". Touching the ass is in fact what Pac was found guilty of, or in other words, "sexual abuse" rather than "harassment" as i previously wrongfully said.

Some references:

Sodomy: [...]The term is most commonly used to describe the specific act of anal sex between two males or a male and a female.

Sodomy is most commonly legally defined as any contact between the genitals of one person, and the mouth or anus of another.

Clearly hands/touching make no part of sodomy's definition.

In December 1993, Shakur was charged with sexually abusing a woman in his hotel room. According to the complaint, Shakur sodomized the woman and then encouraged his friends to sexually abuse her. Shakur vehemently denied the charges.
[...]
The day following the (shooting) incident, December 1, 1994, Shakur entered the courthouse in a wheelchair and was found guilty of three counts of "sexual abuse (forcibly touching the buttocks)", but innocent of six others, including sodomy.

Also, in the Resurrection movie, at one point when Pac is walking out of the courthouse at night, he's asked some questions by a female reporter (this footage was also used in the UTEOT video clip). Basically, from what i remember, she asks him if he was acquitted of the "sodomy" charges, and he tells her "yes, cause they couldn't find any semen, and no forcible entry to the anus" or smth very close to that. So this interview clearly ties the "semen" and "anal entry" to the "sodomy" charges, meaning that sodomy is not "touching the ass"!!!

So basically, as i said, he was acquitted of the "sodomy" charges. Actually, this is a well known fact, and i think you've got things mixed up, mainly due to your wrong understanding of the word "sodomy" (especially in its legal context in this case where it clearly refers to "genital anal rape").

Pz.

 

[NazihHawi]

Which is why it would make no sense to leave so many traces, like a caravan and public street's worth of potential witnesses, the shell casings, the image and make of the car used etc. A well planned hit would never go off so sloppily.

No, those were not traces.. Traces usually lead to somewhere. Those were worthless "facts" and "material" that were presented as traces.. I am from a country that a year and a half ago witnessed a major assassination (one hell of a car blast) which left all kind of evidence and traces. Thousands of them actually, from DNA, to body parts, to car wrecks, to witnesses, to etc... And to this day, a team of more than a 100 of United Nations, German/Belgium, U.S and international detectives still cant find an effective and useful clue. So traces are always left behind, but their quality and how incriminating are those traces is what really matters. And in Pac's case, clearly they had no real value as they didn't lead to any prosecution, let alone conviction.

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Perhaps this is the case where you should be looking for crooked cop connections :thumb:

Really ?!! And did Suge by any means have anything to do with this?!

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Their observations were based on scientific findings of fact. You admittedly are basing your assumptions on theories that naturally have nonexistent evidence.

1st, not all of their "theories" were accurately based on scientific facts. But in general, yes, most of them were.
2nd, This doesn't mean that one cant pose theories without having hard facts. This is why they're called "theories". Sometimes, u just feel somethings, or they just make sense to u, and one should dare and say what he thinks might be right. A scientific example of this is Einstein's postulates. At least half of Einstein's theories were mere theories back then. He didn't have any proves for them (mainly due to the inability of technology back then to apply his theories in real life conditions, such as making particles move in near light's speed). Yet they still made sense to him, due to many logical facts and reasons, and he came forward with them. Most of them were later established as true.

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(And for the record, Galileo was persecuted for saying the Earth revolved around the sun )

True that. Actually, i knew that Galileo said that the earth revolved around the sun, but i also thought he said the earth was round, but i was probably wrong. Maybe it was Magellan or Christoph Columbus who 1st established ("by practice") that the earth was round.. I'm not sure (although Columbus never really established this fact "by practice", as he never reached India).

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Bingo. A lot of people on this board overstate Pac's significance nationally.

"Tupac Shakur has perhaps one of the largest personal legacies of any hip hop artist in history. The music and messages in his work pervaded the styles of the following generations and his music had great impact all over the nation and world. At a Mobb Deep concert following the death of the famed icon and release of his '7 day theory' album, Cormega recalled in an interview that the fans were all shouting 'Makaveli', and emphasised the influence of Tupac even in New York at the height of the media-dubbed 'Inter-coastal rivalry'."

Actually, i think it's really understated.. Especially that it wasn't only a "national" significance for the U.S people, but rather an INTERNATIONAL one, and was a 1st in hip-hop/rap.

 

[Morris]

So basically, as i said, he was acquitted of the "sodomy" charges. Actually, this is a well known fact, and i think you've got things mixed up, mainly due to your wrong understanding of the word "sodomy"

You're right. I incorrectly referred to touching her ass as sodomy.

Traces lead somewhere. And in Pac's case, clearly they had no real value as they didn't lead to any prosecution, let alone conviction.

The traces lead to Orlando Anderson and the Southside Crips. And the reason there was never any prosecution is because the potential witnesses in the Death Row caravan knew who did it and wanted to take care of it in the streets, so the police got no cooperation. Death Row affiliated Bloods at Club 662 were telling people the Crips shot him that very night at the club.

 

[omgwtflol]

nazi reminds me of the 'death' forum

 

[omgwtflol]

edit: double post

 

[NazihHawi]

nazi reminds me of the 'death' forum

Hmm... Only 'nazi' reminds u of the 'death' forum ?!!

Cause i was under the impression that the whole 'death' subject was started (or simply mentioned) by "Local Star", and then commented upon by "Fankaveli", before 'nazi' had said anything, huh?!!

Plus i was under the impression that 2 other users also discussed this matter, in the likes of "Lii" and "Morris"...

Pz to u ':laugh:' !!!

 

[omgwtflol]

but you are the one ardently defending your ludicrous claim that tupac's death was some government/organization conspiracy..

 

[NazihHawi]

^^ yet u make an even more ludicrous assertion that only posts containing, what u categorize as, "ludicrous claims" belong in the forum most suitable for the topic of discussion of those posts.

Now following your absolutely rational logic, posters who think that Pac was killed by the Crips, remind you of which forum exactly?!! Mix-em up?!! Or Fair-Xchange?!!!

Really man, stop posting comments that only merit your fancy username as replies!!!

 

[omgwtflol]

..what the fuck are you TALKING about?

 

[NazihHawi]

^^ just when i was starting to think that i was debating with someone on my level...

 

[Ras Masta]

What the hell happened to this thread?

Pac's death was gang related.

Biggie's death was a conspiracy.

Get over it.

 

[NazihHawi]

^^ Not even what u said will drag me back into this discussion.. I'm way over it now !!!