Bombsquad said:Dayz Of A Criminal
"If that was indo, niggaz getTING rolled up"
"Tupac brain locked on the cannibis"
Wow. This is getting hilarious, twice in the same thread after I already pointed it out.
Bombsquad said:Dayz Of A Criminal
"If that was indo, niggaz getTING rolled up"
"Tupac brain locked on the cannibis"
DeeezNuuuts83 said:I don't mean to shit on your opinion, but that song, specifically the lines you quoted, is hardly lyrical, maybe a 4 on a scale of 1-10. The first lines you quoted are basically just "[insert word that rhymes with 'ooh'] niggas" rhyming with "[insert different word that rhymes with 'ooh'] niggas"... hardly lyrical at all. The second lines you quoted is just your basic multisyllabic rhyme that Pac managed to do every so often in his pre-Death Row work. And if you thought that was dope, how about lines like these from another former Death Row artist:
"They make me want to trip with this gauge
And you suckers will be 'Gone in 60 Seconds' quicker than Nicholas Cage"
"You know I gotta drop cowards with nine millimeters of Glock power
Drop trousers, do your girl in a hot shower
For a hot hour, then drop her off at the Watts Towers"
"Don't tangle, I choke, strangle, break both ankles
Dangle you from a rope, clotheshang you from a coat angle
The mangler so anxious to kill, able to spill
Ancient languages, dangerous as eighty painkiller pills
Young jacker, Gucci hat tilted, gun-clapper
I'm every artist Suge ever signed in one rapper"
Now THAT'S lyrical. Try going back into Pac's lyrics and find REAL examples of Pac being lyrical, not just his basic rhymes that you all seem to think are so incredible.
I feel you on that one. It's a dope ass track, one of hundreds by Pac, but it's still not lyrical.MOBnigga06 said:I recognize that Definition of a Thug Nigga isn't "lyrical" like a Big Pun song rhyming 15 words with 15 more words. I just think that Definition has Pac's flow/intensity complementing good lyrics to create a dope ass track. You feel me?
It sounds dope, but it's still not lyrical for the reasons you just typed.MOBnigga06 said:Even though he's just rhyming a word that sounds like "ooh" and "niggas" 5 times, you can't deny that it sounds fuckin dope.
What, rhyming with no meaning? True, but he didn't use huge rhymes often either.MOBnigga06 said:Just doing huge rhymes with no meaning is lame and when you think about Pac, that's something he really didn't do very often.
No it's not. It is FAR from a "truly LYRICAL pac verse." I'd definitely classify it in the better half of his lyrics, but nothing in those words used would make "lyrical" or "ill" come to mind. Like I've said before, the lyrics are punchy mostly because it's Pac delivering those rhymes. Imagine Ja Rule rapping the same lyrics in the same style that he has come to know, steal, and incorporate in his own songs, then it doesn't seem nearly as appealing or as lyrical.MOBnigga06 said:I think if you want a truly LYRICAL pac verse I'd look at his verse on Gotta Survive.
"Now I've been called a crook, a killa, a thug/ A no-good deala of drugs/ and blood or cuz, doesnt matter what set you was/ cuz where I'm at/ If you black, you strapped/ As long as kis make G's these theives attack/
Now that is ill.
Truth be told, for most of his career, 'Pac was a marginal lyricist. He largely eschewed the use of a simile as a creative device. When he did go that route, the results were elementary--he "hustled like a crack fiend," "hit switches like I was fixed with hydraulics." He could never hang with the Holy Trinity of rhyme: Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas. He didn't have Big's ability to construct interlocking rhyme schemes laden with hidden corridors; was no rival for Jigga's deceptively simple wit or wordplay; couldn't conjure Esco's sage observations and unique rhyme couplets. For the craft of the matter, the Hot Boys are better line-for-line MCs.
But he was strictly about flow, almost to the exclusion of all other tools in the MC arsenal; more about mood and emotion than analogy and imagination. He made rhymes without similes like the Israelites made bricks without straw.
As opposed to slick turns of phrase, 'Pac relied on adages, aphorisms, and arrogance. He used vageness to tap into universal human needs like an accomplished motivational speaker or a great ad campaign. Plan your goals. Just Do It. Ride on your enemies.
Yet 'Pac was turning an artistic corner before his death. He began spitting "spiritual lyrics like the Holy Qu'Ran" and moving towards surreal imagery that cooked the Bible in a cauldron under a street lamp. "Have you ever seen a crackhead?" he asked. "That's eternal fire." He drank so much he "swore I saw the devil in my empty glass of Hennessey." And, while the gun-as-girlfriend exercise "Me And My Girlfriend" lags behind earlier gun metaphors like Nas' "I Gave You Power" and Organized Konfusion's "Stray Bullet" it was a move towards higher creativity.
A+DeeezNuuuts83 said:I'd definitely classify it in the better half of his lyrics, but nothing in those words used would make "lyrical" or "ill" come to mind. Like I've said before, the lyrics are punchy mostly because it's Pac delivering those rhymes. Imagine Ja Rule rapping the same lyrics in the same style that he has come to know, steal, and incorporate in his own songs, then it doesn't seem nearly as appealing or as lyrical.
DeeezNuuuts83 said:He didn't have Big's ability to construct interlocking rhyme schemes laden with hidden corridors;:

B-art said:Pac seemed to have the ability to just rap about exactly what was on his mind at that moment and what he wanted to say, WITHOUT letting this fuck up his flow. The content of more lyrical rappers often seems a hostage to the desire for creating superlyrical verses. When they just say what they wanted to say, they have more trouble to stay on-beat. In my opinion that was Pac's great strength as much as his often praised emotion. It just goes unnoticed how easy it was for Pac to speak his mind while flowing and still being an above-average lyricist. Even a great rapper like Nas seems to not have mastered this ability as much as Pac had.![]()
B-art said:Now most of what's said in those quotes from XXL I can agree with. But this line right here is not true. 'Pac actually did this a lot in his lyrics. He would rhyme two syllables at the end of two lines but still manage to rhyme two completely different multisyllable words within these two lines, thus rhyming 4 words in just 2 lines. These rhyme patterns are often either underrated or overlooked by a lot of people since they aren't like 4 syllable words, which the more lyrical rappers often go for.
Still Pac doesn't go off-topic as much as these more lyrical rappers do, you know? These superb lyricists (take Big Pun for example) are of course lyrical to a much higher degree than Pac in most of their verses, but Pac seemed to have the ability to just rap about exactly what was on his mind at that moment and what he wanted to say, WITHOUT letting this fuck up his flow. The content of more lyrical rappers often seems a hostage to the desire for creating superlyrical verses. When they just say what they wanted to say, they have more trouble to stay on-beat. In my opinion that was Pac's great strength as much as his often praised emotion. It just goes unnoticed how easy it was for Pac to speak his mind while flowing and still being an above-average lyricist. Even a great rapper like Nas seems to not have mastered this ability as much as Pac had. I mean, you can check for yourself. When Nas raps more poetic or 'vague' ( not in a negative way, but you know what I mean) lyrics, his flow is perfect. But when he takes on a more straight-forward approach, for example on 'Ether', the flow is just not as good as you expect it to be. I mean, I praise "Ether' too for being a great diss track but flow-wise it wasn't all that.
That's why I think that the more lyrical rappers don't really make their mind up on what they're going to say before writing their verse. Pac, on the other hand, always did. And that quality of his, in my opinion, is very underrated.
Shit, what a long post. I apologize, lol.![]()
That line WAS true. There is a big difference between rhyming different sets of multisyllabic words within a couple of lines and "construct[ing] interlocking rhyme schemes laden with hidden corridors." Just listen to the second verse of Biggie's "Kick in the Door" which is something Pac could never touch on a strictly lyrical level. Big's flow was on-point, he didn't stray away from the topic, yet he used rhyme structures more complicated than anything I've ever heard from Pac (and I indicated which parts rhyme with which through bold, italics, and underline, and the "hidden corridors" are present in this verse as well):B-art said:Now most of what's said in those quotes from XXL I can agree with. But this line right here is not true. 'Pac actually did this a lot in his lyrics. He would rhyme two syllables at the end of two lines but still manage to rhyme two completely different multisyllable words within these two lines, thus rhyming 4 words in just 2 lines. These rhyme patterns are often either underrated or overlooked by a lot of people since they aren't like 4 syllable words, which the more lyrical rappers often go for.
He doesn't? How about these off-topic lines "How Do U Want It" - a song trying to seduce a girl:B-art said:Still Pac doesn't go off-topic as much as these more lyrical rappers do, you know?
Pac rapping "about exactly what was on his mind at that moment and [about] what he wanted to say" isn't something hard. Yes, Pac could easily stay on-topic, but his topics were usually very general topics, as stated in the same XXL article:B-art said:These superb lyricists (take Big Pun for example) are of course lyrical to a much higher degree than Pac in most of their verses, but Pac seemed to have the ability to just rap about exactly what was on his mind at that moment and what he wanted to say, WITHOUT letting this fuck up his flow.
Basically a lot of Pac's songs, as dope as they are, were vague topics with very general song titles. For example, you could probably take Pac's verse from "As the World Turns" and splice it in the middle of his two verses in "Staring Through My Rearview" and it would flow just fine as a song based on the lyrics alone, minus the lines referring to the song titles (but not Pac's voice, since he seemed more energetic in the latter of the two songs).He tapped into a small garden of evergreen topics and rarely strayed outside of its confines.
It doesn't have anything to do with the song, but Pac was smart as hell to put that in there. That's like Pac's way of getting his messages out... slipping them into club songs.DeeezNuuuts83 said:He doesn't? How about these off-topic lines "How Do U Want It" - a song trying to seduce a girl:
"DeLores Tucker, you's a motherfucker
Instead of trying to help a nigga, you destroy a brother
Worse than the others: Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bob Dole
You're too old to understand the way the game is told" - what does this have to do with trying to take a girl home to fuck her?
That part made me too always think why bring up her name and issue in this song.Irrelevant.DeeezNuuuts83 said:He doesn't? How about these off-topic lines "How Do U Want It" - a song trying to seduce a girl:
"DeLores Tucker, you's a motherfucker
Instead of trying to help a nigga, you destroy a brother
Worse than the others: Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bob Dole
You're too old to understand the way the game is told" - what does this have to do with trying to take a girl home to fuck her?
I guess this could somewhat explain why he did work that he did in so little amount of time.That way seems faster to do tracks i guess. Just let it out whatever is in your mind and then at the end just come up with the name.Instead of first thinking what you gonna be rapping about.But, again that could not have been the case all the time with him, i dont know but if it was, it would make sense.DeeezNuuuts83 said:If you watch that footage of Pac wearing a black sweater (used on both Thug Angel and Tupac Resurrection) while he was schooling the studio engineers, it made it sound like his method was to just free-write for a few verses then rap it, then the title would be "whatever this nigga's last words was" then they would create a chorus, so it seems like Pac didn't always plan it out before jumping in the booth.
Diaz said:It doesn't have anything to do with the song, but Pac was smart as hell to put that in there. That's like Pac's way of getting his messages out... slipping them into club songs.
DeeezNuuuts83 said:That line WAS true. There is a big difference between rhyming different sets of multisyllabic words within a couple of lines and "construct[ing] interlocking rhyme schemes laden with hidden corridors." Just listen to the second verse of Biggie's "Kick in the Door" which is something Pac could never touch on a strictly lyrical level. Big's flow was on-point, he didn't stray away from the topic, yet he used rhyme structures more complicated than anything I've ever heard from Pac (and I indicated which parts rhyme with which through bold, italics, and underline, and the "hidden corridors" are present in this verse as well):
"On your mark, get set, when I spark, you're wet
Look how dark it get when you're marked for death
Should I start your breath? Should I let you die?
In fear, you start to cry, ask why
Lyrically, I'm worshipped, don't front, the word's sick
You cursed it, but rehearsed it, I drop unexpectedly like bird shit
You herbs get stuck quickly for royalties and show money
Don't forget the publishing, I punish 'em, I'm done with them
Son, I'm surprised you run with them
I think they got cum in them 'cause they nothing but dicks
Trying to blow up like nitro and dynamite sticks
Mad I smoke hydro, rock diamonds that's sick
Got paid off my flow, rhyme with my own click
Take trips to Cairo, laying with your bitch"
He doesn't? How about these off-topic lines "How Do U Want It" - a song trying to seduce a girl:
"DeLores Tucker, you's a motherfucker
Instead of trying to help a nigga, you destroy a brother
Worse than the others: Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bob Dole
You're too old to understand the way the game is told" - what does this have to do with trying to take a girl home to fuck her?
) but still..
Even though I hate 50 Cent, that line you just said isn't necessarily true. He's actually been stepping up his game, evident on his verse on Eminem's "Never Enough" and some of his more recent guest appearances, such as some of his lyrics off the new Mobb Deep album. But don't worry, I still don't give a rat's ass about 50.B-art said:Really, it's quite interesting to count the number of rhyming syllables in a random Pac verse, you'll see that it's way bigger than that in the verse of other rappers who aren't lyricists. (50 cent or whoever)
If you go to the first page of this thread, specifically to post #11, you will see that it is ME who was the first to quote lyrics from "First 2 Bomb" and IRONICALLY I brought up the same song arguing the same thing you are arguing in this thread from July 2005, COINCIDENTALLY also post #11:B-art said:Just to prove that Pac indeed made a conscious decision to focus less on the lyrical bravado and more on his content: Check his first verse (and his second if you feel like it,lol) from 'First To Bomb'. Someone mentioned a couple of lines from it earlier in the thread
There's no need to defend your opinion about this song. This is one of my favorite Pac songs that I have effortlessly committed to memory since I first heard it in 2002. For your purposes, I have re-typed up the lyrics as accurately as I recall through listening to it on an almost daily basis:B-art said:Anyway, don't tell me this isn't lyrical, this is insanely lyrical for a rapper who is not a pure lyricist but who's biggest strength is his emotion. I haven't even really highlighted the alliteration or the abundant assonance (which Pac uses a lot in his lyrics and which, without people noticing most of the time, makes a verse sound so much better: it adds to the flow or something, I don't know) Ironically, of course, this verse disses Biggie, who we are discussing as well. I didn't do this on purpose to discredit him but this verse just happens to be one of Pac's most lyrical.