Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

[Da_Funk]

They do. All medicines have to be trialed on humans.

This is not what i was talking about and you know that.

The moustache was his greatest achievement

Touche.

 

[Tha_Wood]

i also believe her over saw the construction of the Audubon

 

[Duke]

Hitler himself didn't design the Beetle or built the Autobahn system. He just had the ideas. Sometimes those ideas panned out well (a people's car, a highway system), sometimes, luckily more often than not, they didn't work out so brilliantly (invading Russia, building the biggest *insert weapon here*)

Economically, it was mostly Speer that came up with and carried out the brilliant ideas.

Hitler himself knew jack shit. He was just the glue for the mad group of people that collected around him.

 

[Pittsey]

Hitler himself didn't design the Beetle or built the Autobahn system. He just had the ideas. Sometimes those ideas panned out well (a people's car, a highway system), sometimes, luckily more often than not, they didn't work out so brilliantly (invading Russia, building the biggest *insert weapon here*)

Economically, it was mostly Speer that came up with and carried out the brilliant ideas.

Hitler himself knew jack shit. He was just the glue for the mad group of people that collected around him.

I would have taken the above as obvious. But the MD of a company always takes the plaudits. Not the soldiers at the bottom.

 

[Duke]

It's not the soldiers that deserve the praise for some of stuff accredited to Hitler or Nazi Germany in general, but the people directly around Hitler.

Hitler did have good ideas, though. Like the Autobahn. Although the concept isn't new of course, (the Romans!) Hitler recognized the need for high-capacity transport lanes in Germany. But his involvement pretty much ended there. It was Speer that made the plans and directed the details for the project.

Hitler would get a thought in his head, went to one of his subordinates and tell them to make it happen. Sometimes these ideas were good, sometimes bad. Sometimes they could simply not even be done. Sometimes it worked like a charm.

 

[Jokerman]

Sometimes it worked like a charm.

Like helping to bring on the creation of the state of Israel. There should be statues of him there.

 

[Duke]

Like helping to bring on the creation of the state of Israel. There should be statues of him there.

That'd be a rippin' laugh.

 

[Tha_Wood]

did hitler have anything to do with what we now call the lethal injection? i do recall hearing it was designed by the nazi's.

 

[S O F I]

Sometimes it worked like a charm.

Like the Final Solution.

Wait, did someone say this already?

 

[Duke]

Like the Final Solution.

Wait, did someone say this already?

That was Himmler

 

[Rukas]

I love how when something good came out of that era you guys say we can't thank Hitler because he didn't directly make it, even if he thought of the concept, and those around him were responsible. But when it comes to the bad things that happened during the war, everyone blames Hitler.

Bit of a double standard.

 

[Duke]

I love how when something good came out of that era you guys say we can't thank Hitler because he didn't directly make it, even if he thought of the concept, and those around him were responsible. But when it comes to the bad things that happened during the war, everyone blames Hitler.

Bit of a double standard.

You need a reading course? I just said, like ONE POST AGO, that the Endlosung was Himmler's doing.

Hitler wasn't a mastermind, he wasn't a genius. He was a good leader and that was it. He just blurted something out and people around him made it happen. Hitler just said "get rid of the Jews". Himmler, Heydrich, the SS, they made it happen. Not Adolf Hitler.

Thats what Ive been saying all along. Hitler came up with some of the basic ideas yes, but without a foundation, a following and capable people to carry out said ideas, Hitler was nowhere. Hitler and Nazi Germany is a combination that should be viewed seperately and connected at the same time.

 

[Rukas]

You need a reading course?

Woah Duke, way to be harsh! Did your kitten just die or something?

I just said, like ONE POST AGO, that the Endlosung was Himmler's doing.

Hitler wasn't a mastermind, he wasn't a genius. He was a good leader and that was it. He just blurted something out and people around him made it happen. Hitler just said "get rid of the Jews". Himmler, Heydrich, the SS, they made it happen. Not Adolf Hitler.

Thats what Ive been saying all along. Hitler came up with some of the basic ideas yes, but without a foundation, a following and capable people to carry out said ideas, Hitler was nowhere. Hitler and Nazi Germany is a combination that should be viewed seperately and connected at the same time.

Yep.

 

[_carmi]

But like anything, it's always the face of a movement that gets blamed. Hitler was the face of the Nazi so most people hold him responsible for everything that happened. Many don't know the names of the people who were close to Hitler (I don't). Hitler was a smart man, he lead these men into WW2. Although these other men had things done for him, Hitler was the man behind everything. He lead it and should ultimately be held responsible for it. No man could have achieved alone what Hitler achieved with his leading group. They are all accountable for what happened.

WW2 was more than annihilating the Jews, it was about the Aryan race and conquering the world. The Holocaust is about the Jews, but WW2 is bigger than that.

WW2 was insanely well documented. The experiments they have done have helped advance science even if we all know human cruelty is not something that's tolerated. It's easy to say that this was the biggest genocide ever but many genocides happen to this day that we are not aware of because of lack of interest from the media. It took a lot of time for the Rwanda genocide to be known and stopped.

Ps The Jews control everything. I thought that was a known fact. lol

 

[Flipmo]

WW2 wasn't only about Hitler and the 3rd Reich. What about the Pacific front? Japan's racial ideologies sometimes surpassed anything Hitler spoke of. Most of us are of European extract here, so it's only normal we've 'Euro-Centralized' WW2, but go to China, Taiwan and neighboring countries and who do they still hold ill feelings against? Japan.

As for Hitler being blamed for everything. It's how it works, the blame goes to the top of command even if they didn't personally do any of the crimes themselves. Hitler had some good ideas, and others completely moronic (that Maus tank, I believe was an idea of his, and completely insane). What made the 3rd Reich work is that is was a well oiled machine. Everyone followed their command and made it happen. It worked like one big brain, and rarely was there objection. Add in Hitler immense charisma as a politician and speaker, and it was the icing on the cake to make it all so.

 

[Duke]

What made the 3rd Reich work is that is was a well oiled machine. Everyone followed their command and made it happen. It worked like one big brain, and rarely was there objection. Add in Hitler immense charisma as a politician and speaker, and it was the icing on the cake to make it all so.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions that people have about Nazi Germany. The wave of nationalism and German work ethic made for relatively smooth running on the lower levels, but in the top of the party it was utter chaos really.

Hitler delegated. To the people around him. If Hitler liked you, that equalled to power in the Third Reich. All of the people surrounding Hitler were there for their own reasons. Many of them didn't like each other. They competed with each other, with their organizations, their little private armies. It was petty bickering for Hitler's favour.

The first clear sign of this was the night of the long knives in 1933. Himmler and his elite clique of SS (which was just a small division of the SA at the time) convinced Hitler that the SA leader, Ernst Rohm, was out to make a bid for power himself. So they killed him.

Well-oiled machine? Hell no. Around 1944 Martin Bormann, Hitler's personal aide, was the only gate through which one can speak to Hitler. If Bormann didn't like you, you didn't get the chance to get in Hitler's favour. Bormann shielded Hitler to an insane degree. He did that to protect his own little power bubble.

Goering was there purely for his own gain. He was a decadant fatass, bathing in luxury, robbing art from all over Europe for his own galleries.

Goebbels was one of the more convinced Nazi's, while Himmler was a clerk. A timid clerk with total power over the police and the camps who would organize the murder of millions of people. Bormann was utterly loyal to the Fuhrer and made it so that Hitler couldn't do without him at some point, which obviously increased his own power immensely. Hess, Rosenberg, Ribbentrop, Speer, all these people in Hitler's immediate circle had their own reasons for being there. And for the most of them it wasn't blind dedication to the smooth running of the Third Reich. It was a lot for their own gain. They often actively worked *against* each other. Efficient? Fuck no.

Not to mention the creation of parallel organizations. The German state of course had the army, a police force, a secret service. The Nazi party eventually created the same organizations for themselves, effectively creating double agencies (Waffen-SS, SS, Gestapo - Wehrmacht, police, SD) to the existing ones.

Because that's how the Nazi leaders could enhance their own power sphere. But was it efficient? Of course not.


One of the greatest wonders of the WW2 for me is how that colourful collection of characters around Hitler in the top of the Nazi party functioned. It most reminds me of a medieval situation in which there is one undisputed King and all his vassals are busy competing with each other for the Kings favour. Waging war, making peace, creating and breaking alliances with each other.

Nazi lawyer and party official Hans Frank said during the Nuremberg trials that it most resembled an "anarchy of the all-powerful". Under Hitler, there was a constant guerilla for power.

It's a really interesting subject.

 

[Jokerman]

I love how when something good came out of that era you guys say we can't thank Hitler because he didn't directly make it, even if he thought of the concept.

There is no concept he came up with himself that was good. Surely not the Autobahn which was already being built before he came to power. Plus Italy's similar autostrada opened in 1924. Engineers came up with the concept. Hitler liked the idea and pushed it forward. Same thing with Volkswagon. Hitler didn't come up with ideas for anything. Though he got the credit in propaganda that seems to still be effective today.

 

[S O F I]

That was Himmler

Oh. I thought it was Jokerman.

 

[Jokerman]

Oh. I thought it was Jokerman.

My real name is Himmler.

By the way, Hitler invented the Internet and pizza.

 

[Duke]

Archimedes studied under Hitler.