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dilla said:
Well, we can argue semantics, but you would hope some similar engineering was put into the 7 that was in the 3 and 5 that makes it handle better than those in its class. What I'm saying is the S-class probably would struggle in some places where the & or maybe even the LS wouldn't. I dunno about the AMG S's though. But relative to large executive sedans, I would think the 7 would feel like less of a barge than the others.
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Applying that logic to other companies would mean that every Nissan is a track car based on the GT-R and the 350Z. Obviously that's not the case.

Duke said:
The simple fact of the matter is that no one cares about specific handling in that segment. It's like comparing acceleration figures of business vans. One might be marginally faster but who gives a fuck?

Most people that buy a 7-series for what it is tend to be driven, anyway.
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Exactly. Or it would be like saying which pickup truck has the best skidpad rating... when in fact the "best" would be 0.79 g. Nothing to brag about or mention.
 
I just wanna throw this in here real quick: BMW North America

The 750's weight distribution is parallel to the rest of the BMWs' close-to-perfection weight distribution, so it has to have some handling advantage compared to other executive sedans.

Thanks. ;)
 
Well, we'll just move off of that now and on to some more BMW stuff. So apparently, the BMW with the most torque is in fact a 335d and the X5 35d making 425 lb. Holy crap those diesels. Any chance, even though it might seem like an oxymoron or impractical, that we see performance diesel cars? I mean, 0-60 times have alot to do with torque, right? 425 335d vs. a 550i's 360. Some tweaking to that diesel to make it fast?
 
I acctually like the new Mercedes Benz C Class a lot. Unlike the older early-2000 models, it's a little more curvier and the MB logo at the front is enlarged.

2008_mb_c_class_new.jpg
 
Rahim said:
I acctually like the new Mercedes Benz C Class a lot. Unlike the older early-2000 models, it's a little more curvier and the MB logo at the front is enlarged.

2008_mb_c_class_new.jpg
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It looks alot better than the last gen, but it still has a hint of girly in it. The only one I think would be excusable would be the $50k AMG 63. Nothing girly about a quad exhaust and a V8
 
dilla said:
Well, we'll just move off of that now and on to some more BMW stuff. So apparently, the BMW with the most torque is in fact a 335d and the X5 35d making 425 lb. Holy crap those diesels. Any chance, even though it might seem like an oxymoron or impractical, that we see performance diesel cars? I mean, 0-60 times have alot to do with torque, right? 425 335d vs. a 550i's 360. Some tweaking to that diesel to make it fast?
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The torque of a twin-turbo diesel definitely helps it get up to speed, so acceleration will be pretty swift, but once you get past 60 mph and are a couple gears in, the lack of explosive high-end horsepower will prevent it from kicking ass at higher speeds while limiting its top speed, unless it happens to make truckloads of horsepower, which it probably doesn't.
 
DeeezNuuuts83 said:
The torque of a twin-turbo diesel definitely helps it get up to speed, so acceleration will be pretty swift, but once you get past 60 mph and are a couple gears in, the lack of explosive high-end horsepower will prevent it from kicking ass at higher speeds while limiting its top speed, unless it happens to make truckloads of horsepower, which it probably doesn't.
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So what would be the pros of owning a 335d? Diesel engine, better fuel mileage? It's an increase of 7 mpg city/hwy both, but is it justified paying 3 grand more for the d model and then more for diesel gas? Aren't diesel engines prone to breakdown more than petrol?
 
My family had a diesel (1985 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel) in our household for 20 years, breaking the 200k mile barrier with only a couple problems here and there, most of which were covered by warranty/recall, even over ten years after the car's purchase. That car had really good gas mileage for what it was, plus diesel wasn't very expensive at the time (relative to gasoline). I remember my dad telling me that with diesels it wasn't necessary to let them warm up from a cold start. However, I eventually hated that car since it stayed in my household for so long and became a very dated car that was loud as shit (kind of embarrassing when getting picked up from school), though on the bright side, I would stay up as late as I wanted with my older brother, and we would just turn off our lights since we could hear my mom's car lugging along from around the block. I also remember that car being exempt from smog checks.

Fast forward to more recent years. Diesel technology has gotten much better. That old 300D of ours was pretty slow, but newer diesels had much more powerful torque curves down low in private passenger applications while being quieter and cleaner and nearly as quick as their gasoline counterparts but with superior fuel efficiency. But is it worth it? It's hard to say.

Consider the price premium as you mentioned, then consider the fact that diesel is still currently more expensive than most grades of gasoline as far as I've noticed. After those two factors, does the better fuel efficiency balance out the difference in the price of the car and the price of the fuel? Do the math... but in most cases, probably not. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it.

Obviously the performance enthusiast won't get it, but for the commuter who likes some punch with their fuel efficiency, the diesel would be a decent choice, assuming they have the coin to get one. But also, diesels have gotten significantly cleaner over the years, so it's also somewhat decent for the environment.
 
Yeah, but the gains don't seem to be that big, and now with reg. unleaded in my area being $1.45, I doubt it's an issue now. I'm no economist and I have no clue if they will go back up, but cheap gas, I've heard has its drawbacks so they should go back up. But still, it just seems to be a trend like the economy going through its ups and downs. It's expected. So when gas climbs back up so will diesel. Will it be worth it when it's 4-5 bucks a gallon, or a dollar more than gas? Will people still be able to afford it? Premium manufacturers aren't the only ones hitting diesel tech, Ford and all of them seem to be adopting them as well. This whole hybrid, and even this huge switch to diesel for things that aren't work trucks seems like a fad or a case of overreaction. If prices stay like this, people with hybrids might be prime examples of people overreacting.
 
You people realize that besides the US and Arab oil states, in the rest of the world you pay some serious money for fuel, right?

So yeah, for all the normal people that don't care for crazy quick cars or have rich parents, the obvious choice for an A-to-B car is a diesel. If you drive a lot it can pretty much cut your fuel costs in half.

Price for petrol and diesel in most of Europe is hovering around a euro+ per liter, so yeah, fuel economy is interesting over here.


As far as diesel performance goes, it's getting better obviously. It'll never surpass petrol for the reasons Deez stated, but it's interesting stuff nonetheless.

They're making a TDI R8, so yeah. V10 500 horsepower and enough torque to rotate the moon,.
 
Duke said:
You people realize that besides the US and Arab oil states, in the rest of the world you pay some serious money for fuel, right?

So yeah, for all the normal people that don't care for crazy quick cars or have rich parents, the obvious choice for an A-to-B car is a diesel. If you drive a lot it can pretty much cut your fuel costs in half.

Price for petrol and diesel in most of Europe is hovering around a euro+ per liter, so yeah, fuel economy is interesting over here.


As far as diesel performance goes, it's getting better obviously. It'll never surpass petrol for the reasons Deez stated, but it's interesting stuff nonetheless.

They're making a TDI R8, so yeah. V10 500 horsepower and enough torque to rotate the moon,.
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Yeah, it'd be nice if they had more cars like the R8 using diesel power. But if you're buying a BMW 3 series, you have money. Which doesn't mean you throw it around like shit, but how long will it take for the $3,000+ extra you pay for the diesel model to pay off? With people being able to fill up a tank of gas of premium fuel for under $30, that's the difference between a diesel fillup and its increase in gas mileage factored into the $3000 extra you paid. Might be a while.
 
Well, over here diesel is cheaper than petrol by about 10 to 20 cents per liter. That saves you (let's say you fill it to the brim) about 6/7 euro's per full fill-up. If you drive a 1000 km's a week....


I heard that the Panamera might get a diesel. lawl.
 
Throughout Europe diesel is less than petrol. However, I'm not sure exactly how both are taxed around here.

Anyone know what actually costs more to produce? Diesel or petrol? As in, which fuel is, economically, cheaper to produce?
 
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