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[Duke]

BMW has been the benchmark for "normal" RWD cars for years now. And I don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

BMW has been the benchmark for "normal" RWD cars for years now. And I don't see that changing any time soon.

Only in the case of the 3-Series and 5-Series. The 1-Series is too new (in the U.S., at least), the Z3 sucked, the Z4 was a bit better, the 7-Series is clearly not for handling, and the 6-Series... I'm not sure about that one, but it has never struck me as being the benchmark in its category.

 

[dillaxx]

Only in the case of the 3-Series and 5-Series. The 1-Series is too new (in the U.S., at least), the Z3 sucked, the Z4 was a bit better, the 7-Series is clearly not for handling, and the 6-Series... I'm not sure about that one, but it has never struck me as being the benchmark in its category.

I'm pretty sure the 6er has some name to its handling. Who does it compete against? The MB CL or CLS? Audi A5? I think it looks better and definitely could dust the Audi. Now the AMG CL is a monster, but is also almost double the price of the M6. So I dunno. But I would guess the 6 series would have the legendary handling as well. What would they change on the 7? I would think the handling genes would pass on down to the higher models as well, and relative to their competitors, I think they would be better handlers. LS 460, 760iL, MB S600. I think I would see the BMW edging them out. Hell, maybe even an AMG S class with its sport turned whatevers.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

^ But a 7-Series is really heavy. Even if it is the best-handling car (not saying it is or isn't, I don't know) between that and the S-Class and Lexus LS, they're all still really heavy cars. That would be like bragging about having the best handling full-size pickup truck.

 

[Duke]

Only in the case of the 3-Series and 5-Series. The 1-Series is too new (in the U.S., at least), the Z3 sucked, the Z4 was a bit better, the 7-Series is clearly not for handling, and the 6-Series... I'm not sure about that one, but it has never struck me as being the benchmark in its category.

The 1 handles well.

The 6, 7 and Z's, I wouldn't call those normal cars. A GT coupe, a luxury limo and roadsters all delve into whole other segments populated by many other, sometimes specialised, manufacturers.

I'm pretty sure the 6er has some name to its handling. Who does it compete against? The MB CL or CLS? Audi A5? I think it looks better and definitely could dust the Audi. Now the AMG CL is a monster, but is also almost double the price of the M6. So I dunno. But I would guess the 6 series would have the legendary handling as well. What would they change on the 7? I would think the handling genes would pass on down to the higher models as well, and relative to their competitors, I think they would be better handlers. LS 460, 760iL, MB S600. I think I would see the BMW edging them out. Hell, maybe even an AMG S class with its sport turned whatevers.

The 6 is a decent handling car by most accounts, the M is the real purty one. And even then 6's are on the weighty side. They're not really sporty, they're GT's. Which would put them in...well..the lotsa-dollars GT segment or something.


All those big AMG's are really autobahn eaters. With maybe the exception of the CLS (which is based on the E-platform), they're all very heavy cars with more focus on comfort and stabiltiy. The CL's weight, especially the 65, is immense. Of course they have underpinnings to suit the power, but as far as handling is concerned, boh. The best of the bunch handles "well for a car this size", basically.

As far as handling is concerned with 7's, S's and maybe A8's, who cares? Deeez said it well.

 

[dillaxx]

^ But a 7-Series is really heavy. Even if it is the best-handling car (not saying it is or isn't, I don't know) between that and the S-Class and Lexus LS, they're all still really heavy cars. That would be like bragging about having the best handling full-size pickup truck.

Yeah, I didn't forget that. But if we were to be technical, it would seem logical for the 7 to still have an edge in handling over its competitors if BMW as a whole is known for its handling.

I still haven't found anything to support it, but it just seems obvious the 1 and 6 have to keep the legendary handling as well. The is more self-explanatory, but the 6, fine, is a GT coupe, but that doesn't mean it doesn't handle like a regular coupe. There would be no reason to make an M6 if it was lacking such a major component in competing with other cars, the handling. Which is why the 7 doesn't really have an M7, and I don't think you'd consider the Alpina B7 to be one.

 

[Duke]

Yeah, I didn't forget that. But if we were to be technical, it would seem logical for the 7 to still have an edge in handling over its competitors if BMW as a whole is known for its handling.

I still haven't found anything to support it, but it just seems obvious the 1 and 6 have to keep the legendary handling as well. The is more self-explanatory, but the 6, fine, is a GT coupe, but that doesn't mean it doesn't handle like a regular coupe. There would be no reason to make an M6 if it was lacking such a major component in competing with other cars, the handling. Which is why the 7 doesn't really have an M7, and I don't think you'd consider the Alpina B7 to be one.

The M models are the pinnacle of BMW's performane cars, not the standard. The differences between a 635 and an M6 are huge. That doesn't mean the 635 is bad, not at all, but not the best in it's class. Maybe the M6 isn't even the best handler in it's class, simply because it's class is much more exclusive.

BMW has been making normal cars like the 3 and 5 for decades, coupled with their company philosophy and experience they've been making those cars handle really well for years. That's their thing, and I'd say they are the best at it.

But with the more expensive, fast, stylish cars you're competing against a different branch. Just because the 3 and 5 are probably the best handling RWD's in their respective classes, doesn't mean the 6 is by default the best in it's class. Is the 6 is a well handling car? Probably, and the M6 is probably fantastic. But the best? Probably not.

 

[dillaxx]

The M models are the pinnacle of BMW's performane cars, not the standard. The differences between a 635 and an M6 are huge. That doesn't mean the 635 is bad, not at all, but not the best in it's class. Maybe the M6 isn't even the best handler in it's class, simply because it's class is much more exclusive.

BMW has been making normal cars like the 3 and 5 for decades, coupled with their company philosophy and experience they've been making those cars handle really well for years. That's their thing, and I'd say they are the best at it.

But with the more expensive, fast, stylish cars you're competing against a different branch. Just because the 3 and 5 are probably the best handling RWD's in their respective classes, doesn't mean the 6 is by default the best in it's class. Is the 6 is a well handling car? Probably, and the M6 is probably fantastic. But the best? Probably not.

My search function on Firefox must be broken. I can't remember where I said the 6 or the M6 was the best handling in its class. I said it was competitive in its class. Just because it's a BMW, doesn't mean it has to be best in its class, but it can certainly compete. And that's what my posts have been about. It may be frivolous to make the 7 competitive, but if we are to be technical, it should be in its class. Same with the 6.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

My search function on Firefox must be broken. I can't remember where I said the 6 or the M6 was the best handling in its class. I said it was competitive in its class. Just because it's a BMW, doesn't mean it has to be best in its class, but it can certainly compete. And that's what my posts have been about. It may be frivolous to make the 7 competitive, but if we are to be technical, it should be in its class. Same with the 6.

That's such a cliche... isn't damn near anything in any given class competitive these days when we're talking about European cars?

 

[dillaxx]

That's such a cliche... isn't damn near anything in any given class competitive these days when we're talking about European cars?

Competitive meaning top 5 in its class.

 

[Duke]

My search function on Firefox must be broken. I can't remember where I said the 6 or the M6 was the best handling in its class. I said it was competitive in its class. Just because it's a BMW, doesn't mean it has to be best in its class, but it can certainly compete. And that's what my posts have been about. It may be frivolous to make the 7 competitive, but if we are to be technical, it should be in its class. Same with the 6.

You kept banging on about legendary handling. Legendary is legendary, not merely "competitive".

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Competitive meaning top 5 in its class.

Haha... and exactly how many cars are in its class?

You kept banging on about legendary handling. Legendary is legendary, not merely "competitive".

No I didn't, I said that the 3-Series and 5-Series have been the handling benchmarks. That's a fact. But calling it legendary is a little subjective and not necessarily a term I would pin on the entire lineup but maybe just on specific models, like the M3.

 

[Duke]

Wth? I meant to quote dilla with that, not you.

edit: fixed

 

[dillaxx]

Well, GT-coupes? I dunno what the 6 series competes with. I think it competes with the Mb CLS, but that's not a coupe. Is the Aston a GT? Audi A/S/RS5? I dunno. It maybe a small class, but I guess my example works best on the 7 series, where it's the LS460, S class, A8, XJ, etc.

 

[Duke]

^^ Except that no one really looks at that 7series luxury segment with a handling-eye.

 

[dillaxx]

^^ Except that no one really looks at that 7series luxury segment with a handling-eye.

That doesn't change the fact that it's still there.



Anyone watch the new Top Gear? I hope they stop bashing Americans after what they said about the CTS-V, ZR1, and Challenger.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

That doesn't change the fact that it's still there.

Are you sure about that? They're not exactly nimble.

Anyone watch the new Top Gear? I hope they stop bashing Americans after what they said about the CTS-V, ZR1, and Challenger.

They'll bash Americans when they keep making pieces of shit like the Sebring or one-trick ponies like the Mustang GT and even the Challenger, which really wasn't deserving of any praise. They didn't really like it, seeing how it was huge, heavy and handled poorly in comparison.

 

[Duke]

The ZR-1 and the CTS-V are the first decent cars America has made in years, lol. The TG guys like the cars, but that won't mean they'll like any US car from now on.

and lol @ Jezza giving that cop the finger.

 

[dillaxx]

Are you sure about that? They're not exactly nimble.


They'll bash Americans when they keep making pieces of shit like the Sebring or one-trick ponies like the Mustang GT and even the Challenger, which really wasn't deserving of any praise. They didn't really like it, seeing how it was huge, heavy and handled poorly in comparison.

Well, we can argue semantics, but you would hope some similar engineering was put into the 7 that was in the 3 and 5 that makes it handle better than those in its class. What I'm saying is the S-class probably would struggle in some places where the & or maybe even the LS wouldn't. I dunno about the AMG S's though. But relative to large executive sedans, I would think the 7 would feel like less of a barge than the others.


And yeah, the Challenger was clearly the weakest one and least favorite of them all, which is why Hammond got it, the short bastard. But the CTS-V and the ZR1 are definitely going to send competitors back to the drawing boards and is worthy of respect, atleast for the next 2 or 3 years where the competition comes up with an answer.

 

[Duke]

Well, we can argue semantics, but you would hope some similar engineering was put into the 7 that was in the 3 and 5 that makes it handle better than those in its class. What I'm saying is the S-class probably would struggle in some places where the & or maybe even the LS wouldn't. I dunno about the AMG S's though. But relative to large executive sedans, I would think the 7 would feel like less of a barge than the others.

The simple fact of the matter is that no one cares about specific handling in that segment. It's like comparing acceleration figures of business vans. One might be marginally faster but who gives a fuck?

Most people that buy a 7-series for what it is tend to be driven, anyway.