New cars that interest you?

[Da_Funk]

I wouldn't buy an S4... haha... but that's just me.

Why? I know jack shit about cars so any info would be appreciated.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Why? I know jack shit about cars so any info would be appreciated.

It's not a bad car, it's just that I wouldn't get one. I'd rather get an RS4, but that's way too much money, but I don't think I'd be happy with an S4, especially seeing how its pricing is a little high, and probably closer to the C63 and M3 than the RS4 is, despite the RS4 being those two cars' competitor. It just seems like a lot of money for not enough car. I'd rather just get a standard A4, plus I'd rather not have a guzzling V-8 these days anyway, unless it was an awesome one like the 4.2-liter in the RS4.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great-looking car, but it just doesn't have the aggression of the RS4 and doesn't look that much better than the standard A4 (especially when it has the factory optioned S-Line aero kit or whatever it's called), plus the 2.0-liter turbo is plenty awesome.

 

[dillaxx]

Well, I was given my somewhat of a "dream car" this past summer, so I can't complain until I make my own money and can buy my own.

The 1 series is actually pretty roomy from when I sat in it, and the TT L6 is only going to be even more awesome that it is on my 535. Smaller, lighter, means quicker and a lot more fun. I like coupes, but I just think the sedan suits my tastes better. The exception to the coupes from BMW would be the 650i/M6, which is just a beast.

 

[Duke]

Well, I was given my somewhat of a "dream car" this past summer, so I can't complain until I make my own money and can buy my own.

The 1 series is actually pretty roomy from when I sat in it, and the TT L6 is only going to be even more awesome that it is on my 535. Smaller, lighter, means quicker and a lot more fun. I like coupes, but I just think the sedan suits my tastes better. The exception to the coupes from BMW would be the 650i/M6, which is just a beast.

Only shame is that (besides both being BUTT UGLY), the 135i is very very heavy for such a small car at 1560 kg's.

The problem with the M6 is that, despite looking sporty and everything, it's not faster than an equivalient 5-series. Despite all the talk, the M6 is either a heavy sportscar or a very very fast GT-car.

Weight kills. Now this goes for all cars, but somehow I have more peace with the 5-series tipping in at 1700 kg's than a much smaller M6 or a tiny ass 1-series being just as heavy as a 525i.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Only shame is that (besides both being BUTT UGLY), the 135i is very very heavy for such a small car at 1560 kg's.

The problem with the M6 is that, despite looking sporty and everything, it's not faster than an equivalient 5-series. Despite all the talk, the M6 is either a heavy sportscar or a very very fast GT-car.

Weight kills. Now this goes for all cars, but somehow I have more peace with the 5-series tipping in at 1700 kg's than a much smaller M6 or a tiny ass 1-series being just as heavy as a 525i.

The 135i doesn't weight THAT much, it's definitely in the higher 1400 kg range (to keep things metric). Any comparison in weight between a 135i and 525i (which is still heavier anyway) needs to factor in the larger 3.0-liter with twin-turbos (turbos definitely add weight) along with the fact that their smaller motors were always renowned for being light.

 

[Duke]

You're right on the engine, but look it up. The 135i actually is *that* heavy. I couldn't believe it myself at first.

EDIT: I have to mention, though, that the BMW-quoted 1560 kg is according to EU standards. And EU standards include fuel and a 75kg driver, whereas US curb weight does not include the driver.

But then the 1560kg is still valid comparing the car to other BMW's and other modern cars since they're under the same weight quotation system.


It's still heavy, though. Taking out the driver and fuel (75kg and about 45kg for a 60liter load) that's 120kg.

That's a deadweight of about 1420/1430kg's, or about 3160 pounds.


IMO that's heavy for such a little car. Yes, it's quite luxurious, has a big engine and all that. But still. An itsy-bitsy 116i weighs a paltry 1245kg. That's a 660 pounds difference!! A 3-door 130i is 1375kg.

I think most of the extra weight of that eventually gets on the 135i is engine and transmission strengthening. Considering the torque that 35i engine spits out relative to the units in it's smaller siblings.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Okay, U.S. numbers...

128i (230 hp 3.0-liter): 3228 lb.
135i (300 hp twin-turbo 3.0-liter): 3425 lb.
530i (225 hp 3.0-liter): 3660 lb. (auto)/3740 lb. (manual)

I can't find anything for a U.S. 525i. Or maybe I'm a little lazy.

 

[Duke]

Yeah Im using euro numbers off autotrader site. Very useful. Actual 525i weight is rather irrelevant now, isn't it? We've established the 135 is heavy.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Yeah it's heavier than it should be, but saying it weighed as much as a 5-Series was pretty inaccurate. Yay for my car being almost 200 pounds lighter, haha.

 

[Duke]

You can't say it's heavier than a 5-series or not since the 5 comes in so many different forms and engines.

However, it IS heavier than some of the variants.

From autotrader.nl

135i - 1560kg
Entry-level 520d - 1485kg
523i - 1470kg
530i - 1505kg
535d - 1635kg
550i - 1635kg
M5 - 1730kg


There ya go. The 5-series has a massive scale of weight because of it's engine and options variety. All those numbers are from the latest edition 5-series so they should all be according to EU1 standards. Hell, take out the 135i's driver for all I care, give it a 75kg advantage, it's STILL a little pig.

The 135i is a pig.

 

[dillaxx]

I dunno how relevant it is, but the 530 is now a 535. Weight of turbos? I dunno. It also depends on what you're equipped with. Surely not having night vision, park assist, etc. might lower it by about 50 or so pounds.


Also, does getting the sport package improve 0-60 times? It sounds weird, but the times given for a car might be inaccurate with the sports package. I know the 5 series sport package comes with different tires, a sports transmission and the aero kit. That doesn't lower 0-60 but .1 or .2 of a second?

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

You can't say it's heavier than a 5-series or not since the 5 comes in so many different forms and engines.

However, it IS heavier than some of the variants.

From autotrader.nl

135i - 1560kg
Entry-level 520d - 1485kg
523i - 1470kg
530i - 1505kg
535d - 1635kg
550i - 1635kg
M5 - 1730kg


There ya go. The 5-series has a massive scale of weight because of it's engine and options variety. All those numbers are from the latest edition 5-series so they should all be according to EU1 standards. Hell, take out the 135i's driver for all I care, give it a 75kg advantage, it's STILL a little pig.

The 135i is a pig.

Unless the European counterparts are just that different from the U.S. versions, I'd have to say that there is some error in those numbers. Think about it... why would a 135i be that much heavier than a 5-Series, regardless of which engine it has? It just doesn't make sense, though the numbers I provided are a little bit more reasonable. The 5-Series is clearly larger and has more creature comforts, so there's no reason why the 1-Series would be heavier. Perhaps BMW's official site in your country might be more trustworthy. Here are some from BMW North America

128i: 3252 lb. (manual), 3329 lb. (automatic)
135i: 3373 lb. (manual), 3384 lb. (automatic)
528i: 3505 lb. (manual), 3571 lb. (automatic)
535i: 3660 lb. (manual), 3703 lb. (automatic)

There you go, straight from BMW's official U.S. website. The 5-Series is significantly heavier, especially when comparing the cars with the same motors. The 135i isn't "light" but it's not even close to the 5-Series' weight.

I dunno how relevant it is, but the 530 is now a 535. Weight of turbos? I dunno. It also depends on what you're equipped with. Surely not having night vision, park assist, etc. might lower it by about 50 or so pounds.

We know that the 535i replaced the 530i. I was only talking about the 530i because someone was mentioning the 525i, which we don't have the U.S., but I found the weight of the 530i since it's probably not too far off. And turbos aren't light, so it's a factor to consider. At least more so than park assist and night vision, which definitely don't add 50 pounds.

Also, does getting the sport package improve 0-60 times? It sounds weird, but the times given for a car might be inaccurate with the sports package. I know the 5 series sport package comes with different tires, a sports transmission and the aero kit. That doesn't lower 0-60 but .1 or .2 of a second?

The 5-Series sport package doesn't come with all of that, only upgraded wheels and tires, multi-contour seats, Active Roll Stabilization (ARS), sport steering wheel and the sport suspension. None of those things would really have any bearing on 0-60 mph acceleration times, except maybe the tires but nothing significant enough to talk about. Perhaps in cornering it might be a little better. The aero kit is mostly for looks, though I'm sure it might help out a tiny tiny bit at higher speeds.

 

[Duke]

Look Deeez, I know you know a lot about cars but the numbers aren't wrong because you think so.

Autotrader is reliable and all the numbers there are bang on for EU1 standards.

The 1-series in itself isn't that heavy. The 135i however, is. Think about it. Almost twice the torque of the 30i engine. What does that do for your driveline? Exactly.

Look at the weight difference between a 530 and a 535.


Also, keep in mind here in Europe we get a lot of "lighter" versions of the 5-series not marketed in the States. Hence I said a 135i is a lot heavier than most garden variety 5-series.

 

[Duke]

And when comparing numbers, they're pretty much bang on.

128i according to you is 3252lbs. *0.45 = 1463kg (actually 1480 bang on using the more exact measurement from onlineconversion.com)

List weight of a coupe (with butt) 125i here is 1480kg.

The 28i and the 25i is the same 3 liter block.


Converted, the 535i has a weight of 1647kg. The 540i has a list weight of 1625. That's with a litre more, less torque, same hp (and I think a gearbox not as strong compared to the executioner-style 35i engine).


All that, and taking into account the difference between US (curb weight) and EU1 (curb weight + driver), the numbers are correct.


You listed from BMW USA a curb weight of 3373lbs for the 135i. That's 1517 kg's! Minus the 75kg driver we take into account in Europe, that's 1592 fully loaded. The slight difference is because the US version is probably a bit higher loaded on trim and extra's.

Even if the US number is *with* driver. Then the 135i is still well over 1500 kg's @ 1517. So even if I'm *wrong*, I'm right, because:

135i = pig and a lot heavier than some 5-series.

And to prevent further confusion:

1 pound = 0.453 592 37 kilogram

Online Conversion - Common Weight and Mass Conversions


Discussion closed.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Look Deeez, I know you know a lot about cars but the numbers aren't wrong because you think so.

Autotrader is reliable and all the numbers there are bang on for EU1 standards.

The 1-series in itself isn't that heavy. The 135i however, is. Think about it. Almost twice the torque of the 30i engine. What does that do for your driveline? Exactly.

Look at the weight difference between a 530 and a 535.

I'm not saying the numbers are wrong because I "think so," it's because they just don't make sense, and I backed it up with official numbers directly from the U.S. BMW site, which I'd put more faith into than Autotrader.

And when comparing numbers, they're pretty much bang on.

128i according to you is 3252lbs. *0.45 = 1463kg (actually 1480 bang on using the more exact measurement from onlineconversion.com)

List weight of a coupe (with butt) 125i here is 1480kg.

The 28i and the 25i is the same 3 liter block.


Converted, the 535i has a weight of 1647kg. The 540i has a list weight of 1625. That's with a litre more, less torque, same hp (and I think a gearbox not as strong compared to the executioner-style 35i engine).


All that, and taking into account the difference between US (curb weight) and EU1 (curb weight + driver), the numbers are correct.


You listed from BMW USA a curb weight of 3373lbs for the 135i. That's 1517 kg's! Minus the 75kg driver we take into account in Europe, that's 1592 fully loaded. The slight difference is because the US version is probably a bit higher loaded on trim and extra's.

Even if the US number is *with* driver. Then the 135i is still well over 1500 kg's @ 1517. So even if I'm *wrong*, I'm right, because:

135i = pig and a lot heavier than some 5-series.

And to prevent further confusion:

1 pound = 0.453 592 37 kilogram

Online Conversion - Common Weight and Mass Conversions


Discussion closed.

The discussion isn't closed, but let's get a few things straight:

1. Yes, the 135i is heavier than it should be. I never denied that.
2. Based on the OFFICIAL BMW USA specs, I'm right about how neither the 128i nor 135i coupes are heavier than the even lightest 5-Series. Not even close. I'm not wrong there. And I just happened to check BMW's official home site in Germany and, after deciphering German, the weight is as follows:

125i (not sold in U.S.): 1480 kg
135i: 1560 kg
520i (not sold in U.S.): 1535 kg
523i (not sold in U.S.): 1575 kg
525i (not sold in U.S.): 1585 kg
530i (not sold in U.S.): 1605 kg
540i (not sold in U.S.): 1725 kg
550i: 1735 kg

So if you want to be right, then yes, only the VERY LIGHTEST 5-Series sedan with a freakin' 2.0-liter four-cylinder is lighter (by 25 kg) than only the VERY HEAVIEST 1-Series coupe with a twin-turbo 3.0-liter six-cylinder. You got me there, but the majority of the original numbers you had posted (sourced from Autotrader) were very inaccurate, being off by as much as 90 kg. And that's why I had such a hard time believing it, and that's also why I was asking you to find official specs.

NOW case is closed, unless you wish to discuss this further.

 

[dillaxx]

The US has the 5 series models as follows:

525i ---> 528i
530i---> 535i
545i----> 550i
M5

The 528 has the 530 engine size, it seems, minus the 535's TTs. The 135 is not heavier than a 528, probably because the 335 is only 100 lbs. lighter than the 535i and there's no way the 135 is heavier than both models just above it.


But I think all three of us can agree that BMWs have gotten porkier over the years, actually, just generation as it seems the E46 M3 was the choice of car to cream to for most youngsters. Surprisingly though, the new M3 still seems to handle as well as any BMW should despite being a lot bulkier.

 

[Duke]

The thing is, there is such a variety of trim levels and specs and whatnots for BMW that it's very hard to accurately pin the weight of an entire series on 1 accurate number.

But keep in mind a decent number of 5-series around here are pretty much bare-bone lease-cars. I'm at the BMW site but cant really find weight numbers. Which site you used? <== go it, nm


As far as i know, autotrader gets it's numbers straight from the car companies, so...

Actually, they should invent a standard system for measuring things like this. With driver, without driver, with fuel, etc. Same for HP-ratings.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

The US has the 5 series models as follows:

525i ---> 528i
530i---> 535i
545i----> 550i
M5

We know that

But I think all three of us can agree that BMWs have gotten porkier over the years

Obvious

it seems the E46 M3 was the choice of car to cream to for most youngsters. Surprisingly though, the new M3 still seems to handle as well as any BMW should despite being a lot bulkier.

Actually the current M3 handles significantly better than the previous E46 M3.

 

[Duke]

When I was browsing for this shit yesterday, I came across a german forum of bmw-owners that was very interesting. I dont know how good your German is but ill try to find the link.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

The thing is, there is such a variety of trim levels and specs and whatnots for BMW that it's very hard to accurately pin the weight of an entire series on 1 accurate number.

But one 535i isn't going to be drastically different from another 535i with different options (excluding transmission obviously). That aside, I did provide numbers for each specific model rather than one number generalized for the entire model lineup, so that wasn't an issue.

But keep in mind a decent number of 5-series around here are pretty much bare-bone lease-cars. I'm at the BMW site but cant really find weight numbers. Which site you used?

First, I went to BMW North America, then I went to the official site at BMW automobiles - website of the BMW AG and picked Germany and looked at their various offerings.

As far as i know, autotrader gets it's numbers straight from the car companies, so...

Well, in this particular case, the numbers that you posted from their site were VERY off compared to the official specs, so that's why I was so skeptical at some of your earlier posts.

Actually, they should invent a standard system for measuring things like this. With driver, without driver, with fuel, etc. Same for HP-ratings.

It just needs to be consistent within the same region, which it is. That's why I compared the U.S. weights to one another, and German weights to one another, rather than with each other, since each country has a particular standard. I think that the "with driver" weight measurement that is used in your country might be a little irrelevant since it's not like drivers all weigh the same, so to stay consistent and accurate you might as well use the weight of the car by itself. I agree with hp ratings, but generally speaking, it's nothing too different so I wouldn't worry too much about it. But the only time when it becomes an issue is when discussing it in international forums since the cars I read about here are rated in SAE-certified hp while you might be reading about cars with bhp ratings while Japanese posters might be reading about cars with ps ratings.