is there a situation where rape is acceptable?

[Rukas]

I find it funny how ppl are saying "they asked for it" or "they brought it on themselves".

I havent seen anybody say they asked for it; which kind of makes the rest of your post pointless...

Let me explain it again. No female asks to get raped. No female deserves to get raped. But certain females have a level of responsibility if they get raped due to their own negligence and provocation.

 

[Farzin]

You are pretty much giving the rapist a voice by even acknowledging a tiny bit of responsibility with the victim.

Imagine you get robbed and hospitalized and someone says "its your fault for wearing nice clothes". So what you are supposed to walk around like a homeless person for the rest of your life in case some broke motherfucker decides to go out and rob someone?

Rapists are mentally sick and would rape anything with 2 legs and a whole in between. To tell a rape victim that she has even a remote responsibility in the heinous act is like poking on a wound because you shouldn't get hit by a drunk driver swerving into the sidewalk.

 

[Pittsey]

Rape isn't about sex... It's about power...


Date rape is about sex... And that is where the whole problem of being responsible, and watching what you where comes into play. But either way, you can say no ay any poiny you wish... That is your right... There is no time or place that rape is deserved.

 

[ARon]

Whether a cat needs to eat or doesn't, whether a rape needs to rape or doesn't, has no relevance on the point he was making.

Irrespective of WHY someone does what he does, the issue here is whether you're doing ANYTHING to increase your risk.

K?

The point you missed is the rapist makes the choice to rape someone. You should be able to do anything you want without increasing your risk of being raped. With the thought that dressing a certain way increases your risk to me means rape is becoming accepted, its just something that happens now. Rape shouldnt cross anyones mind when they see a hot girl getting drunk and what not, except for maybe serial rapists as rukas brought up but thats getting to deep into just the general idea that chicks who dress yadda yada.... you know.

 

[Rukas]

You are pretty much giving the rapist a voice by even acknowledging a tiny bit of responsibility with the victim.

Imagine you get robbed and hospitalized and someone says "its your fault for wearing nice clothes". So what you are supposed to walk around like a homeless person for the rest of your life in case some broke motherfucker decides to go out and rob someone?

No, but you cant wear a bunch of jewelery and flashy shit into the hood and walk alone at night, you just know you cant, and if you get robbed, youre a dumb ass for doing it. Same thing.

Rapists are mentally sick and would rape anything with 2 legs and a whole in between. To tell a rape victim that she has even a remote responsibility in the heinous act is like poking on a wound because you shouldn't get hit by a drunk driver swerving into the sidewalk.

Exactly, they are sick, so it is not a choice. And its not like the drunk driver example because in that example they do nothing to provoke or entice the drunk driver to hit him. If you said she jumped into the middle of the road and waved her arms about with a HIT ME sign across her head, then yeah, it would be a viable example, because half the time that is what girls do at parties....

 

[Rukas]

The point you missed is the rapist makes the choice to rape someone.

Not always, as stated above and before.

You should be able to do anything you want without
increasing your risk of being raped.

In an ideal world you should, but you cant, and girls know the risks are out there so they know they cant. Yet they still choose to flirt and get drunk and put themselves in dangerous situations.

With the thought that dressing a certain way increases your risk to me means rape is becoming accepted, its just something that happens now

Its not just about the way they dress. And it does happen, all the time.

Rape shouldnt cross anyones mind when they see a hot girl getting drunk and what not, except for maybe serial rapists as rukas brought up but thats getting to deep into just the general idea that chicks who dress yadda yada.... you know.

No it shouldnt, but a lot of time, both parties are drunk, and BOTH are responsible.


Let me ask you this, if a girl flirts with every guy at the party, dresses so short they can see her g string, gets drunk, acts like she wants to fuck, then she goes into a private bedroom with three guys, willingly, and gets raped, is she stupid for being in that room?

 

[Devious]

Let me ask you this, if a girl flirts with every guy at the party, dresses so short they can see her g string, gets drunk, acts like she wants to fuck, then she goes into a private bedroom with three guys, willingly, and gets raped, is she stupid for being in that room?

if she goes into the room with them, that is stupid. if they rape her, meaning she said no to sex, then it is still not her fault. realizing that you should have protected yourself from that situation, and being responsible for what happens in that situation are 2 separate issues.

using the example again, if i walked thru the hood at night wth gold chains all over the place and a big wad of cash in my pocket, that is not a smart decision. but does that give anyone the right to rob me? does that make me wrong, or responsible for them robbing me? i don't think so. by this logic, you could say the allied forces are partly responsible for the holocaust, because Hitler didn't start cremating prisoners by the masses until the war was in full swing. so did they provoke him into it? are they at all at fault for Hitler's actions?

or a better example: if i spend $75000 on a car i worked my whole life to get, and some asshole steals it or carjacks me for it, is it my fault because i decided to buy an expensive car? or the criminal's fault for stealing it?

i mean call me totally crazy, but i have this completely wacked out idea that criminals are responsible for the crimes they commit, not the victims their crimes are committed against. sounds silly, doesn't it?

 

[Rukas]

if she goes into the room with them, that is stupid. if they rape her, meaning she said no to sex, then it is still not her fault. realizing that you should have protected yourself from that situation, and being responsible for what happens in that situation are 2 separate issues.

I disagree, putting yourself in a situation that you rationally know is dangerous puts blame on you. Its like bungee jumping, you need to sign all rights to sue away before you jump. If the cable snaps whose fault is it? You have to accept some responsibility for doing something you know is potentially dangerous.

using the example again, if i walked thru the hood at night wth gold chains all over the place and a big wad of cash in my pocket, that is not a smart decision. but does that give anyone the right to rob me?

I've never ever said that anything gives anyone the RIGHT to harm another person so its obvious you are arguing against some preconcieved notion you have where you think I'm saying people are ALLOWED to rape someone or they have a right to. I've never said anything of the sort, please do not put such horrible words in my mouth.

Knowing you have such a mistaken percpective on this discussion makes it hard to take the rest of your post serious in the context of what we are meant to be debating but ill go ahead anyway....

does that make me wrong, or responsible for them robbing me? i don't think so. by this logic, you could say the allied forces are partly responsible for the holocaust, because Hitler didn't start cremating prisoners by the masses until the war was in full swing. so did they provoke him into it? are they at all at fault for Hitler's actions?

that is totally different, I have no idea what you're trying to get at it makes no sense and has no parallel what so ever to what is being discussed. You're grasping at straws.

or a better example: if i spend $75000 on a car i worked my whole life to get, and some asshole steals it or carjacks me for it, is it my fault because i decided to buy an expensive car? or the criminal's fault for stealing it?

in that case it is not your fault, that's why when women just get jumped and raped walking home it is not their fault at all.

However if you buy that same car and then park it in a shady area of town and leave the door open with the keys in the ignition then yeah, you're a fucking idiot and yes, if it gets stolen its due to your stupidity.

i mean call me totally crazy, but i have this completely wacked out idea that criminals are responsible for the crimes they commit, not the victims their crimes are committed against. sounds silly, doesn't it?

In a lot of cases, while the criminal is ALWAYS responsible if they are guilty, in some cases the victim is also at fault for provoking the situation, allowing it to happen, or not doing anything to avoid it.


If you stand in the way of a speeding car, the driver is responsible for hitting you, but your own stupidity put you there, so you are partly to blame.

Frankly I don't know how you can deny this.

 

[Ms L]

Rape isn't about sex... It's about power...

Date rape is about sex... And that is where the whole problem of being responsible, and watching what you where comes into play. But either way, you can say no ay any poiny you wish... That is your right... There is no time or place that rape is deserved.

So women shouldn't go out on dates then incase it increases their risk of being raped?

 

[Beautiful Angel]

I see what your saying and agree fully no one deserves to be raped period. BUT my main gripe is females that dress like whores but demand respect from men, first a man will not respect you if you don't respect yourself. If your in the club with ya titties an ass hanging out ya need to question your morals (I'm not saying this is how you are) Dave Chappelle said once "You may not be a whore but your wearing a whores uniform" No one deserves rape thats for sure an rape is seldom about sex its more about power an hatred.

I agree women that dont respect themselves arent going to get respect from others. what i said was that that what i wear COULD be considered provacative. when really its not. I wear Jeans when i go out, NEVER a skirt. and my tops dont have my tits hanging out. yet every single time i go out I'm gettin touched by some man. there was one incident where i was just dancing with my girls and some random guy decided it was ok to shove his hand down the back of my pants!! does that mean i was asking for it? bc i wore jeans and tank top w/ a cardigan to the bar?? does that mean i'm a whore? NO! but i bet that same guy would probably try something more if i wasnt with my girls. i would LOVE it if a guy could live in my shoes for one damn night out. then maybe you would realize that alot of men treat NO woman with respect. I respect myself to the fullest!! i dont sleep with random men, hell i never even went home with anyone from a bar when i was single. there are alot of women out there just like me, yet all of us are judged bc of the few women that are whores and go home with random men the decided to yell "rape".

i can see where everyone is coming from with their opinions but for one second step back and put yourself in my place. maybe then you'll start to realize that NOT everyone women is the same. i have been raped, but i didnt do a thing about it because i was dating the guy. we had sex plenty before but that night (it happen more than once) i said no, he wasnt hearing it. he held me down on the bed while i was crying and had sex with me anyway. i didnt do anything about it bc he was my boyfriend and i didnt think at the time that i had the right to say he raped me! and why? because of society, trying to always put it on the girl. was it my fault?

 

[Rukas]

I agree women that dont respect themselves arent going to get respect from others. what i said was that that what i wear COULD be considered provacative. when really its not. I wear Jeans when i go out, NEVER a skirt. and my tops dont have my tits hanging out. yet every single time i go out I'm gettin touched by some man. there was one incident where i was just dancing with my girls and some random guy decided it was ok to shove his hand down the back of my pants!! does that mean i was asking for it? bc i wore jeans and tank top w/ a cardigan to the bar?? does that mean i'm a whore? NO! but i bet that same guy would probably try something more if i wasnt with my girls. i would LOVE it if a guy could live in my shoes for one damn night out. then maybe you would realize that alot of men treat NO woman with respect. I respect myself to the fullest!! i dont sleep with random men, hell i never even went home with anyone from a bar when i was single. there are alot of women out there just like me, yet all of us are judged bc of the few women that are whores and go home with random men the decided to yell "rape".

i can see where everyone is coming from with their opinions but for one second step back and put yourself in my place. maybe then you'll start to realize that NOT everyone women is the same. i have been raped, but i didnt do a thing about it because i was dating the guy. we had sex plenty before but that night (it happen more than once) i said no, he wasnt hearing it. he held me down on the bed while i was crying and had sex with me anyway. i didnt do anything about it bc he was my boyfriend and i didnt think at the time that i had the right to say he raped me! and why? because of society, trying to always put it on the girl. was it my fault?

Firstly let me say Im sorry for what happened to you, you dont deserve that, and Im sure you never asked for it and he has a lot of problems I hope he is dealing with, and i hope you kicked him in the nuts hard.

But.... And let me get this straight.... He raped you once and you hung around to get raped again and again? Im sorry, but thats just stupid on your part. You should have left his ass and pressed charges; as bad as it sounds and as hard as it is to hear, by not leaving, you're partly responsible for what happened later. If you had left, it wouldnt have happened again, only your role in staying allowed it to happen more than once.

I know how harsh that may sound; and you didnt deserve it, but you do have some responsibility.

Anyway, I hope he is paying for what he did. And I hope your life is better now and youre dealing with it.

All the best.

 

[Beautiful Angel]

Firstly let me say Im sorry for what happened to you, you dont deserve that, and Im sure you never asked for it and he has a lot of problems I hope he is dealing with, and i hope you kicked him in the nuts hard.

But.... And let me get this straight.... He raped you once and you hung around to get raped again and again? Im sorry, but thats just stupid on your part. You should have left his ass and pressed charges; as bad as it sounds and as hard as it is to hear, by not leaving, you're partly responsible for what happened later. If you had left, it wouldnt have happened again, only your role in staying allowed it to happen more than once.

I know how harsh that may sound; and you didnt deserve it, but you do have some responsibility.

Anyway, I hope he is paying for what he did. And I hope your life is better now and youre dealing with it.

All the best.

My relationship with him was hell....I was afraid to leave him! thats the only reason I stayed with him...once I finally got the courage and repsected myself again, I kicked his ass out. and I stood up to him for the first and last time. I know i shouldnt have stayed. but he put the fear of god in me. i know its no excuse at all. he was a very mentally abusive man. like i said, i didnt think i could press charges because he was my boyfriend at the time. at that point it would have been he said she said. his family is a very powerful family in my area and believed he could do no wrong. hell i was even the bad one for kicking his ass out of our apartment. i learned alot from that relationship and i am now alot stronger than i ever was. i'm moving on and ive even found a great man who treats me with respect....this was a huge step for me, this has been the only time ive spoken of what happen. no one knows because they would want to kill him for what he did. that would just make things worse. he's out of my life and thats how i want to keep it.

i believe he is paying for it, but only in the form of karma.

 

[Rukas]

My relationship with him was hell....I was afraid to leave him! thats the only reason I stayed with him...once I finally got the courage and repsected myself again, I kicked his ass out. and I stood up to him for the first and last time. I know i shouldnt have stayed. but he put the fear of god in me. i know its no excuse at all. he was a very mentally abusive man. like i said, i didnt think i could press charges because he was my boyfriend at the time. at that point it would have been he said she said. his family is a very powerful family in my area and believed he could do no wrong. hell i was even the bad one for kicking his ass out of our apartment. i learned alot from that relationship and i am now alot stronger than i ever was. i'm moving on and ive even found a great man who treats me with respect....this was a huge step for me, this has been the only time ive spoken of what happen. no one knows because they would want to kill him for what he did. that would just make things worse. he's out of my life and thats how i want to keep it.

i believe he is paying for it, but only in the form of karma.

I totally understand sometimes it is hard to do what needs to be done. I know, its hard for me sometimes to do the right thing even though I know its the right thing,and if my delaying it allows more bad things to happen, my delaying it is partly to blame.

Im glad you got out of it, and Im glad your life is better.

Karma is a bitch, I firmly believe you get back what you give even worse (or better depending on the side of the fence you sit on), so yeah I am sure he is or will pay for it.

 

[Beautiful Angel]

I totally understand sometimes it is hard to do what needs to be done. I know, its hard for me sometimes to do the right thing even though I know its the right thing,and if my delaying it allows more bad things to happen, my delaying it is partly to blame.

Im glad you got out of it, and Im glad your life is better.

Karma is a bitch, I firmly believe you get back what you give even worse (or better depending on the side of the fence you sit on), so yeah I am sure he is or will pay for it.

Thank you for understanding and not judging me because of my actions or lack of in the past. i know i'm partly responsible for what happen. i was not in the right frame of mind then. i guess because of what happen to me i took this thread waay to personal because in no way do i think anyone is at fault for what happens to them even if they give off a certian vibe or whatever. because in the end no means no, no matter what. and no matter what the girl is wearing, how she is acting, or who she is means she should be disrespected when she says no.

 

[Devious]

I disagree, putting yourself in a situation that you rationally know is dangerous puts blame on you. Its like bungee jumping, you need to sign all rights to sue away before you jump. If the cable snaps whose fault is it? You have to accept some responsibility for doing something you know is potentially dangerous.

I've never ever said that anything gives anyone the RIGHT to harm another person so its obvious you are arguing against some preconcieved notion you have where you think I'm saying people are ALLOWED to rape someone or they have a right to. I've never said anything of the sort, please do not put such horrible words in my mouth.

Knowing you have such a mistaken percpective on this discussion makes it hard to take the rest of your post serious in the context of what we are meant to be debating but ill go ahead anyway....

that is totally different, I have no idea what you're trying to get at it makes no sense and has no parallel what so ever to what is being discussed. You're grasping at straws.

in that case it is not your fault, that's why when women just get jumped and raped walking home it is not their fault at all.

However if you buy that same car and then park it in a shady area of town and leave the door open with the keys in the ignition then yeah, you're a fucking idiot and yes, if it gets stolen its due to your stupidity.


In a lot of cases, while the criminal is ALWAYS responsible if they are guilty, in some cases the victim is also at fault for provoking the situation, allowing it to happen, or not doing anything to avoid it.


If you stand in the way of a speeding car, the driver is responsible for hitting you, but your own stupidity put you there, so you are partly to blame.

Frankly I don't know how you can deny this.

well the Hitler analogy was a bad one, i see that now. but would you say that a woman who talks back to her boyfriend is partly responsible if he beats the shit out of her? she put herself in that situation by talking back, so she should at least be partly to blame right?

are the kids at Columbine at least partly to blame for the killings there? they bullied Klebold and Harris, therefore they put themselves in the situation, so they are at least partly at fault for the killer's reaction to it, right?

look, for every action there is a reaction, but just because you take an action, that doesn't necessarily mean you are to blame for someone else's reaction to it. if a girl goes to a party and acts like a slut and then gets raped, then you can say well maybe she should have known better, but you can't say it's her fault that someone decided to rape her because he thought she was acting like a slut. that is just wrong, and by that theory we are all at least somewhat responsible for any crime perpetrated against us, because there are always precautions you can take to avoid situations like these. rape is no one's fault but the rapist, murder is no one's fault but the murderer.

would you blame a 24 hour convenience store for being robbed at 2 in the morning? they don't have to be open 24/7, but they choose to be, the same way a woman doesn't have to dress or act like a slut, but she chooses to.

 

[Duke]

Deserves to get raped? No, never. But there are plenty situations where the "rapee", be it man or woman where there is partial blame to be put on them.

But I guess that goes for most "crimes happened to you". I mean, taking a late night stroll through a bad neighbourhood isn't smart, it puts yourself at risk, but it doesn't mean you "deserve" to get shot/stabbed/robbed whatever. Driving at 120mph on the freeway is dangerous to yourselves and others, but it doesn't mean you deserve to spin out and die horribly.

 

[Rukas]

well the Hitler analogy was a bad one, i see that now. but would you say that a woman who talks back to her boyfriend is partly responsible if he beats the shit out of her? she put herself in that situation by talking back, so she should at least be partly to blame right?

Yeah I would. If you know your boyfriend is an asshole then you should leave him. If you dont, and you know he gets pissed off and may hit you if you're verbally abusive to him but you do it anyway and then he hits you, you should have known better and you're partly responsible.

Thats an even worse analogy, because certain times a women can say things that deserve a slap just like men; where as no one ever deserves to get raped... Well except for rapists or pedophiles in jail...

are the kids at Columbine at least partly to blame for the killings there? they bullied Klebold and Harris, therefore they put themselves in the situation, so they are at least partly at fault for the killer's reaction to it, right?

Yep they are partly responsible, because if they didnt bully the killers, they would still be alive. Therefore their action caused a reaction and because of their action they are partly responsible.

look, for every action there is a reaction, but just because you take an action, that doesn't necessarily mean you are to blame for someone else's reaction to it.

Once again you are arguing against something I never said. I never said the women were to BLAME for getting raped, NEVER EVER EVER did I say that. I simply said they are somewhat responsible if their action caused it.

if a girl goes to a party and acts like a slut and then gets raped, then you can say well maybe she should have known better, but you can't say it's her fault that someone decided to rape her because he thought she was acting like a slut.

Im getting really fucking tired of going round and round with you in this circle. I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT. Dont partake in a discussion if youre going to debate against imaginary comments.

I never said the girl is AT fault, I said she is partly responsible, and partly at fault yes, because she put herself in that situation. If she got drunk and then raped, it is her fault she got drunk and allowed herself to get raped. No one forced her to drink, thus she is responsible and at fault for being drunk, which is part of the act of date rape, and this she is partly responsible for what happened.

Even Beautiful Angel, who has been raped, agrees with me. Yet you cant seem to grasp the concepts.

that is just wrong, and by that theory we are all at least somewhat responsible for any crime perpetrated against us, because there are always precautions you can take to avoid situations like these. rape is no one's fault but the rapist, murder is no one's fault but the murderer.

Wrong, not all crime, just the ones you cause by an action.

Murder? Ok. If somebody rapes my girlfriend and then I murder them, I am wrong, but he is partly responsible because he raped my girlfriend, if he hadnt, he would still be alive. Therefore he provoked me, put himself into a dangerous situation, and suffered the consequences of his actions. Just like girls that get drunk and put themselves in dangerous situations.

would you blame a 24 hour convenience store for being robbed at 2 in the morning? they don't have to be open 24/7, but they choose to be, the same way a woman doesn't have to dress or act like a slut, but she chooses to.

Firstly, I dont BLAME anybody. And my God, that is a retarded analogy, you really are grasping at straws.

Look lets just agree to disagree, I keep explaining this simple concept of action and reaction to you and you fail to grasp it. You make me feel dumber for engaging in this discussion with you for so long.

 

[Rukas]

Deserves to get raped? No, never. But there are plenty situations where the "rapee", be it man or woman where there is partial blame to be put on them.

But I guess that goes for most "crimes happened to you". I mean, taking a late night stroll through a bad neighbourhood isn't smart, it puts yourself at risk, but it doesn't mean you "deserve" to get shot/stabbed/robbed whatever. Driving at 120mph on the freeway is dangerous to yourselves and others, but it doesn't mean you deserve to spin out and die horribly.

Exactly, it doesnt mean you deserve it to happen, it does however mean because you did something potentially dangerous you are somewhat responsible for the outcome.

 

[Devious]

Yeah I would. If you know your boyfriend is an asshole then you should leave him. If you dont, and you know he gets pissed off and may hit you if you're verbally abusive to him but you do it anyway and then he hits you, you should have known better and you're partly responsible.

Thats an even worse analogy, because certain times a women can say things that deserve a slap just like men; where as no one ever deserves to get raped... Well except for rapists or pedophiles in jail...

Yep they are partly responsible, because if they didnt bully the killers, they would still be alive. Therefore their action caused a reaction and because of their action they are partly responsible.

Once again you are arguing against something I never said. I never said the women were to BLAME for getting raped, NEVER EVER EVER did I say that. I simply said they are somewhat responsible if their action caused it.

Im getting really fucking tired of going round and round with you in this circle. I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT. Dont partake in a discussion if youre going to debate against imaginary comments.

I never said the girl is AT fault, I said she is partly responsible, and partly at fault yes, because she put herself in that situation. If she got drunk and then raped, it is her fault she got drunk and allowed herself to get raped. No one forced her to drink, thus she is responsible and at fault for being drunk, which is part of the act of date rape, and this she is partly responsible for what happened.

Even Beautiful Angel, who has been raped, agrees with me. Yet you cant seem to grasp the concepts.

Wrong, not all crime, just the ones you cause by an action.

Murder? Ok. If somebody rapes my girlfriend and then I murder them, I am wrong, but he is partly responsible because he raped my girlfriend, if he hadnt, he would still be alive. Therefore he provoked me, put himself into a dangerous situation, and suffered the consequences of his actions. Just like girls that get drunk and put themselves in dangerous situations.

Firstly, I dont BLAME anybody. And my God, that is a retarded analogy, you really are grasping at straws.

Look lets just agree to disagree, I keep explaining this simple concept of action and reaction to you and you fail to grasp it. You make me feel dumber for engaging in this discussion with you for so long.

you do realize that if someone is partly at fault for something, which you are clearly saying that these women are at least partly at fault because they are dressed and acting like sluts, that is the exact thing as being partly to blame for it? seriously pick up a dictionary and look up these words, they mean the same thing. so how can you continuously say that you never said this or that, when you are saying exactly that? just using different words?

responsibility, fault, blame they all mean the same damn things Ruk. i'm not saying that you are saying these women are completely at fault, and as much as you don't like me putting words in your mouth i don't like it either. but to me, to say that a victim of a crime is partly responsible for the crime perpetrated against them is absolutely ridiculous. i will agree to disagree, because as much as you think i'm not getting what you're saying, you aren't getting me either, and we can just go around in circles all day.

oh and by the way Angel said the exact same thing i'm saying. she acknowledges that she is partly responsible for putting herself in that position. i have acknowledged that in my posts. but she also said that she doesn't think she is at all at fault for what he did to her, which is again what i have been saying all along. go back and read her last post again.

we are all responsible for OUR OWN actions. a woman is responsible for putting herself in a bad situation. the man who rapes her is responsible for raping her. she is not responsible, not even partly, for his actions. period. i know i've been going off on this topic for a while, and i'm done with it after this, but i'm going to add one thing. like i said before, every action has a reaction. leaving my house in the morning to go to work is an action. if a crime is committed against me after i leave my house, under your logic i am at least partly responsible for the crime, because if i hadn't left my house that morning, the crime wouldn't have happened. the same way that if the kids at Columbine hadn't bullied the killers, they'd still be alive. i'm sorry but i can never agree to that logic.

 

[Sebastian]

....you guys are still debating?