"Is the Pentagon spying on Americans?"

[PuffnScruff]

This line right here is speculation

but it has been proven that he had done this other times other than just against the guy who was giving secrets to the russians. so i still dont see how it is speculation.

 

[Devious]

if you have proof, why did you say this then. This line indicates that you assumed he had done it to other people, but you didn't know. And you haven't presented any proof since then either, so either post it or let's get back to the subject at hand

 

[PuffnScruff]

if you have proof, why did you say this then. This line indicates that you assumed he had done it to other people, but you didn't know.

i was just asking you a question directly. i wasnt assuming he had done it to other people, i knew for a fact that he had and so do many americans and other people around the world that didnt sleep through the clinton adminstration (which the majority of american did)

sorry dude

 

[Devious]

either way, like I said, it was wrong for him to do it and it's wrong for Bush to do it. I honestly don't understand how any American would just sit idly by while they are being stripped of their rights one by one and actually approve of it. So much for the land of the free

 

[S O F I]

"I will watch you have sex, and will listen to your phone sex, but ONLY, ONly, because it's for your own good and protection."

 

[The.Menace]

"Is the Pentagon spying on Americans?"

Yess they do. I don't know why oyu even ask, GWBush himself said that he signed a coupel of documents so they could spy on people without any further permission. Yes, he sucks.

 

[PELLA]

i doubt it.

 

[_carmi]

yeah i'm sure the pentagon are spying. but i dont agree with that. at least i'm not american.

 

[PuffnScruff]

do you people even understand that this has been going on since before most of us(if not all of us) were even born?

fuck bush, its his fault for everything

 

[Devious]

Yes there were these kinds of things going on back then, but not like the kinds of things going on now, like being able to arrest "suspected" terrorists and hold them indefinitely for no reason whatsoever.

 

[PuffnScruff]

how do you know they dont have a reason? do you work for the federal govt? have you read their files? i doubt it.

 

[Devious]

How about the stories of people who were arrested under the Patriot Act law and held for up to 5 months without being told what the y were being held for? Are they all liars? The point is that until you have been charged with a crime the police or the government shouldn't treat people like they are criminals. Like I said before, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Or does that not apply if you are arabic or of middle eastern descent?

 

[PuffnScruff]

How about the stories of people who were arrested under the Patriot Act law and held for up to 5 months without being told what the y were being held for? Are they all liars? The point is that until you have been charged with a crime the police or the government shouldn't treat people like they are criminals. Like I said before, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Or does that not apply if you are arabic or of middle eastern descent?

people have always been able to be arrested just by being suspect. i was arrested when i was 16 in jan of 2000 just for being in a home that suspected of being a drug house. they had no proof drugs were being sold out of their. that didnt stop illinois state police and federal agents from arresting my friends an i. charging us was a different story because they had nothing to charge us with.

you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. you obviously do not know shit about the laws in this country. like i said before you dont know what information the feds had. you shouldnt believe everything the media tells you.

 

[Devious]

you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

You just proved my point right there. Have these people the gov is spying been found guilty in a court of law? No. But yet the government feels it should be able to circumvent the laws and the constitution in order to spy on these people without a warrant. In your case, the cops believed that you had committed a crime, you were informed of the crime you were suspected of , and when they couldn't charge you with anything, they released you. That was all perfectly legal. In the cases I was talking about, they were never informed of the charges against them (illegal) and held indefinitely with no evidence to hold them (also illegal). Your comparison is invalid. Apparently I know more about the laws of your country than you do.

I'm not even an American citizen, and I shouldn't even bother to give two fucks what's going on over there. But it bothers me when a country that claims to be the World's shining beacon of freedom is robbing its own citizens of that freedom. People have fought and died for the rights and freedoms you enjoy. What Bush is doing is basically saying that these people died for nothing, because those rights are expendable whenever it suits the government. That is a slap in the face of all the people who fought in wars to make America what it is.

 

[PuffnScruff]

You just proved my point right there. Have these people the gov is spying been found guilty in a court of law? No. But yet the government feels it should be able to circumvent the laws and the constitution in order to spy on these people without a warrant. In your case, the cops believed that you had committed a crime, you were informed of the crime you were suspected of , and when they couldn't charge you with anything, they released you. That was all perfectly legal. In the cases I was talking about, they were never informed of the charges against them (illegal) and held indefinitely with no evidence to hold them (also illegal). Your comparison is invalid. Apparently I know more about the laws of your country than you do.
QUOTE]

you dont know for a fact the people you are talking about were never informed of the charges against them. apparently you believe everything you hear in the news which only proves how smart you are to begin with.

you might as well get back on topic because i am done arguing with a crazy person that thinks he knows everything.

 

[assassin]

Everyone is Tappin everbody and Tappin each other girlfriends and wives assess! Not a surprise to me the Bush admenestration need to go buy Anhieser Bush and have some more drinks and buy me keg while at it! HAPPY TAPPING AND MAYBE YOULL KNOW when the next plane comes down on us.Oh maybe you knew but didnt tell U.S!

 

[assassin]

PS:Look how administration is spelled ! (lol) Im such a DIRTBAG I know!

 

[Devious]

You just proved my point right there. Have these people the gov is spying been found guilty in a court of law? No. But yet the government feels it should be able to circumvent the laws and the constitution in order to spy on these people without a warrant. In your case, the cops believed that you had committed a crime, you were informed of the crime you were suspected of , and when they couldn't charge you with anything, they released you. That was all perfectly legal. In the cases I was talking about, they were never informed of the charges against them (illegal) and held indefinitely with no evidence to hold them (also illegal). Your comparison is invalid. Apparently I know more about the laws of your country than you do.
QUOTE]

you dont know for a fact the people you are talking about were never informed of the charges against them. apparently you believe everything you hear in the news which only proves how smart you are to begin with.

you might as well get back on topic because i am done arguing with a crazy person that thinks he knows everything.

I don't claim to know everything. These people said it themselves, unless they are all liars, but you probably believe that they are lying, since it doesn't fit with what you believe. Of course I don't believe everything I hear in the news, but apparently you believe everything the Bush administration tells you, which shows how smart YOU are. By the way, did Bush find those WMDs yet? Nope? Didn't think so.

But you go on believing what you want. All I can say is I'm glad I live in Canada, a country that still allows its citizens to have their rights.

 

[PuffnScruff]

I don't claim to know everything. These people said it themselves, unless they are all liars, but you probably believe that they are lying, since it doesn't fit with what you believe. Of course I don't believe everything I hear in the news, but apparently you believe everything the Bush administration tells you, which shows how smart YOU are. By the way, did Bush find those WMDs yet? Nope? Didn't think so.

But you go on believing what you want. All I can say is I'm glad I live in Canada, a country that still allows its citizens to have their rights.

maybe its because syria wont let the u.s. in to search for them.
http://www.nysun.com/article/24480

try and stay on topic

i love how people like you will say we have lost our rights with the patriot act but dont back it up with anything.makes me wonder if you have even read the patriot act. i cant help but wonder if you get your info straight from the ass of people like michael moore.

got to love canadians:laugh:

 

[XIAN]

They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin (The "Greatest American", as he's referred to by many)

http://www.thismodernworld.com/

Tom Tomorrow:
Wow
Unsurprisingly, the live audience attending a broadcast of the Fox News “Dayside” program is quite eager to “sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety,” as Benjamin Franklin famously put it (noting that such citizens frankly deserve neither). But surprisingly, Fox’s in-house legal expert, Judge Andrew Napolitano, has strayed off the reservation:

Napolitano: When Congress enacted the FISA act in ‘77, it also made it criminal for anyone in this country to use the power of the government to wiretap without a search warrant. It made it easy to get the search warrant with the FISA law, but it said you have to get the search warrant.

Host: So what the president’s done is a criminal act?

Napolitano: The president has violated the law in the name of national security, not wanting to violate the law, believing he’s doing the right thing, but he violated it nonetheless. He can’t pick and choose which laws to obey and not to obey any more than the rest of us can.

Not too far off the reservation, but definitely at least one foot outside the gate. The audience is unimpressed: But judge, they’s terrorists! They wants to blow us up! Etc., etc., ad nauseum.

….unfuckingbelievable:

Audience member: We’ve got to give the President the flexibility to protect me. I use my cell phone all the time and I don’t have any problem with the folks listening to the conversations I have because they’re appropriate conversations.

And the audience bursts into applause.

If our democracy survives the next three years in any recognizable form, it will be in spite of morons like that.

Puff was that you in that audience?

~peace~