Homosexuality and Race

[Amara]

Marriage

i don't think that feeling superior has anything to do with disgust, fear or misunderstanding. i believe superiority in the racism case sprung from the fact that white europeans were much more advanced "technologically" than Africa, which led to slavery. racism came from here rather than fear.

The brutal and inhumane treatment that embodied slavery was based on something much more than the technical advantage of the Europeans. Dont be mistaken, there was very much elements of moral repulsion, disgust and repugnance.

 

[H.B.]

Marriage

but also in anciant greece, homosexuality and pedophilia were also very common and really natural. Does that mean that persecuting pedophiles is the same as racism???

Not at all. there is not consent from both parties. Children are not developed to the point where they can make sound decisions on anything, let alone decisions on sex. They are deceived, fooled and sometimes forced to perform sexual acts against their will. they grow up with psycological effects of such experiences. At the time of the act, they are also very affected emotionally, and physically and most of the time embarrased.
this is a reprehensible act that should never take place because of all the proven negative effects it has on the parties involved.

Homosexuality is none of these things. The parties involved know exactly what they are doing, there is consent from both parties, obody is deceived or fooled into doing something they do not want to do.

 

[two187pac]

The only choice is whether to be 'in' or 'out'.

People need to stop making threads about homosexuality, I always come across as gay. I'm not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

i dont agree with it at all. to be honest im just about as much as against it as someone can possibly be. but if you look at studys done, especially with identical vs franternal twins there is a clear trend pointing to genetics, not to choosing to fit in or out......

 

[Khaled]

Marriage

The brutal and inhumane treatment that embodied slavery was based on something much more than the technical advantage of the Europeans. Dont be mistaken, there was very much elements of moral repulsion, disgust and repugnance.

i don't see much physical disgust for blacks when white people were raping black women... the way i see it, white people considered themselves far superior to the "uncivilzed" black people from africa.

Not at all. there is not consent from both parties.
Children are not developed to the point where they can make sound decisions on anything, let alone decisions on sex. They are deceived, fooled and sometimes forced to perform sexual acts against their will. they grow up with psycological effects of such experiences. At the time of the act, they are also very affected emotionally, and physically and most of the time embarrased.
this is a reprehensible act that should never take place because of all the proven negative effects it has on the parties involved.

Homosexuality is none of these things. The parties involved know exactly what they are doing, there is consent from both parties, obody is deceived or fooled into doing something they do not want to do.

aren't these te same arguments homophobic use against gay? they are not emotionnally and psychologically healthy, parents start blaming themselves when they find out their child is gay...
same thing.

also, regardless of whether or not they do commit these crimes, isn't the fact of being a pedophile, as in "wanting" to have sex witrh children, the same as being gay???
cuz it's definitely not the same as being black.

 

[S O F I]

Not recognizing them as humans is different than saying they're unnatural. A homo is "unnatural" because his behaviour goes against nature's guidelines.

But, who is to say what is natural and what is not? Which natural guidelines are you speaking about? Do you mean to say that homosexuality is "unnatural" because, for example, male cats don't fornicate with female cats?

No, i don't believe that homosexuality is wrong, i'm reasoning from their perspective.

Misread your post, my bad.

The only choice is whether to be 'in' or 'out'.

People need to stop making threads about homosexuality, I always come across as gay. I'm not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I faced the same situation in my school a couple of days ago for defending "homosexuality". I'm as straight as the next straight man, but, I can't stand ignorance. People probably thought I was some closet homosexual, lol.

 

[two187pac]

Marriage

i don't see much physical disgust for blacks when white people were raping black women... the way i see it, white people considered themselves far superior to the "uncivilzed" black people from africa.

i can easily see why the "way you see it " would be confused for racism to.

 

[Flipmo]

Marriage

I agree completely with that statement. It might even be 25 years from now, maybe less time.

Another interesting thing is that, based on who I have talked to, and who seems to be pro/anti-gay, a large majority of the people who are anti-gay come from the same backgrounds and same areas as those who were racists in the 50s, 60s, and 70s (namely the south). And those that are for gay rights were on the other side of the spectrum during the civil rights movement.

Ever hear about being Traditionnal, most European, South American, Arabic and Asian cultures are like this. It has nothing to do with racism.

 

[Amara]

Marriage

i don't see much physical disgust for blacks when white people were raping black women... the way i see it, white people considered themselves far superior to the "uncivilzed" black people from africa.

Rape, yes. Warm fuzzy sex, no. Rape is a brutal violation which strips a woman of her dignity and power. It is an ultimate act of disrespect and adds more to the argument of disgust... its a show of power not emotion nor attraction.

 

[Khaled]

Marriage

Rape, yes. Warm fuzzy sex, no. Rape is a brutal violation which strips a woman of her dignity and power. It is an ultimate act of disrespect and adds more to the argument of disgust... its a show of power not emotion nor attraction.

no doubt about that, i didn't say rape meants physical attraction (even though i stil think that s debatable) but i believe it definitely denies the possibility of Physical Disgust.

also,i don't believe a heterosexual man will rape a gay man... just to show the comparison, no matter how stupid that sounds

 

[H.B.]

Marriage

Ever hear about being Traditionnal, most European, South American, Arabic and Asian cultures are like this. It has nothing to do with racism.

Being traditional can involve many things, such as keeping a country and family blood traditional by not allowing a certain race to interact with them. In some parts of india, it is traditional for people not to come into contact with dark people because they are seen as dirty. this is not racist?

 

[H.B.]

Marriage

aren't these te same arguments homophobic use against gay? they are not emotionnally and psychologically healthy, parents start blaming themselves when they find out their child is gay...
same thing.

also, regardless of whether or not they do commit these crimes, isn't the fact of being a pedophile, as in "wanting" to have sex witrh children, the same as being gay???
cuz it's definitely not the same as being black.

These are not the same arguments. A child is PROVEN to not be compeltely developed, that is why it is a child. And I never said a child was not emotionally or psychologicallly healthy. Parents could blame themsleves for their children "turning out" to be gay because they misunderstand their child, or the entire concept of homosexuality.

 

[Khaled]

Marriage

These are not the same arguments. A child is PROVEN to not be compeltely developed, that is why it is a child. And I never said a child was not emotionally or psychologicallly healthy. Parents could blame themsleves for their children "turning out" to be gay because they misunderstand their child, or the entire concept of homosexuality.

i these were arguments by real psychologists. This is the flipside of gay tolerance. And i suppose that any gay is PROVEN to be emotionnally completely developped???

regardless, you didn't answer me on the second part of the post, about the similarity of pedophilia and homosexuality, regardless of whether a crime is committed.

 

[S O F I]

Marriage

Being traditional can involve many things, such as keeping a country and family blood traditional by not allowing a certain race to interact with them. In some parts of india, it is traditional for people not to come into contact with dark people because they are seen as dirty. this is not racist?

First off, the term "racism" has been thrown around so much that people don't even know what it means anymore. But, to answer the question, it is considered bigotry and prejudice if they don't want to come into contact with dark people because they see them as "dirty". However, if they don't want to come into contact with dark people because they want to preserve their true culture, than that is not racism/bigotry.

 

[H.B.]

Marriage

i these were arguments by real psychologists. This is the flipside of gay tolerance. And i suppose that any gay is PROVEN to be emotionnally completely developped???

regardless, you didn't answer me on the second part of the post, about the similarity of pedophilia and homosexuality, regardless of whether a crime is committed.

pedophlia is a sexual act bewteen an adult and a child. Homosexuality is between memebers of the same sex. If an adult were to engage in a sexual act with a child of the same sex, it would be pedophilia, not homosexuality. is this what you were getting at?

 

[H.B.]

Marriage

i these were arguments by real psychologists. This is the flipside of gay tolerance. And i suppose that any gay is PROVEN to be emotionnally completely developped???

Can you elaborate please? how is my comment the flipside of gay tolerance?

 

[Khaled]

^^ you didn't undersdtand...

what difference is there between wanting to sleep with someone of the same sex, and wanting to sleep with a child?? even if no sexual act took place in any of the two cases???


in your argument, you stressed the difference between the two on the lack of sexual and emotional development of the child, whereas i was asking on the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality from the adult point of view.

 

[Flipmo]

Marriage

Being traditional can involve many things, such as keeping a country and family blood traditional by not allowing a certain race to interact with them. In some parts of india, it is traditional for people not to come into contact with dark people because they are seen as dirty. this is not racist?

It is not racist to keep within the same culture. Croatians do it, Serbians do it, Greeks do it and many more.

As for Indians thinking darker complexions are dirty, I've never heard of that, it may be taken to the extreme, but as a general. Nothing is racial about being traditionnal. I don't think you're from the average european family, so you wouldn't know, but I'm sure many on this board can relate to what I am saying.

 

[Illuminattile]

Marriage

regardless, you didn't answer me on the second part of the post, about the similarity of pedophilia and homosexuality, regardless of whether a crime is committed.

In the sense that pedophilia is a sexual attraction to young children, then it's similar to hetero- or homosexuality. It's an attraction, a lust, and it probably can't be cured. The fact that you cannot legally or morally act upon that lust is what separates it from hetero- and homosexuality.

 

[HitEmUp21]

That's not true. You're implying that people weren't gay, they just had gay sex.

Yes, I am saying that their homosexual acts were not constitutive of their overall identity. Whereas, now we have the creation of a 'normal' sexuality and hence the acts committed are expressive of an 'abnormal' sexuality.

There are massive bodies of art - paintings, poems, stories - which depict homosexual relationships. There's historical evidence of people being persecuted for forming relationships with people of the same sex.

Cite where I said that homosexuality was not looked down upon, or people existed in a gay, utopian orgy...I never said that it was socially accepted at all, all I said was that people did these acts and it wasn't the salient part of their identity, but the creation of a binary (normal/abnormal) sexuality, led these acts now to express that abnormality and become the dominant factor in the way one idenifies him- or herself.

It might be the case, as some psychologists have argued, that our natural state is bisexuality and that hetero- and homosexuality are restraints created by society. To argue that homosexuality is a relatively new 'creation' is ignorant, though.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my point, because in your first sentence you just stated it. It is a newly created way of looking at sexuality, the actual thing that is being looked at has not been recently created though.

Your point about pride doesn't really make sense either, as pride is something we can control. It's a character trait which can be changed. Homosexuality is not.

It was a terrible example, I admit. But my contention still remains that if there were something that is considered 'not so bad' now, and it eventually gets looked at as if it is as bad as homosexuality, then the same thing will happen. Social Constructivism.

 

[Illuminattile]

Cite where I said that homosexuality was not looked down upon, or people existed in a gay, utopian orgy...I never said that it was socially accepted at all, all I said was that people did these acts and it wasn't the salient part of their identity, but the creation of a binary (normal/abnormal) sexuality, led these acts now to express that abnormality and become the dominant factor in the way one idenifies him- or herself.

My point wasn't that there was persecution, it was that people were persecuted for being homosexual not for engaging in homosexual activity.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my point, because in your first sentence you just stated it. It is a newly created way of looking at sexuality, the actual thing that is being looked at has not been recently created though.

You said it was a creation of the past century, that's what I disagreed with.