Hip-Hop in a transition?

#1
  • Artist's sales are declining. For example, a couple years back an artist like Young Dro would've went platinum.
  • Major artists are expressing their desire to be independant.
  • The masses (white people) are slowly losing interest in Hip-Hop. Emo bands are becoming the new trend for them, just look at the award shows.

I myself am happy about this, this might lead to another artistic age of Hip-Hop.

Do you agree? Explain.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#2
If A&R's signed original talent and released original albums then sales would pick up.

Chamillionaire went platinum last year. And would have again this year. If you work hard and build the fanbase you will sell.

Otherwise people will download. You don't have to buy an album to hear it now. 90% of regular buyers will check out an album before they buy.

Step your rap game up.
 
#3
Pittsey said:
If A&R's signed original talent and released original albums then sales would pick up.

Chamillionaire went platinum last year. And would have again this year. If you work hard and build the fanbase you will sell.

Otherwise people will download. You don't have to buy an album to hear it now. 90% of regular buyers will check out an album before they buy.

Step your rap game up.
What do you say about The Roots - Game Thoery or Method Man - 4:21... The Day After?
 
#4
hiphop needs to do something. its in a coma. i dont think it is dead yet, but it desperately needs a kick in the ass creatively and artistically. Everything is in a pause state. All the topics are old, the beats are repetitive, and nothing but no name new rappers making one hit wonders flooding the airwaves with anthems rather than actual music. Come on, "Let your shoulder lean" "snap your fingers"...these songs are garbage, awful. Lyricism and originality have gone out the door taking a back seat to upbeat and mind numbing lil jon-like beats.

Every artist out there who is respected in hiphop has been around for at least 10 years. No new players have emerged in hiphop with the exception of 50 cent/G Unit and their not really showing the longevity that artists such as nas or a jay z have. Noone has stepped up to the plate to take hiphop into the 21st century, unless hiphop in the 21st century doesnt get any better than what we have now. And if that is the case, im done with hiphop. Sometimes I still ocassionaly turn on Hot97 and actually enjoy a new song, but for the most part i play my older albums or completely switch genres.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#5
Tekneek said:
What do you say about The Roots - Game Thoery or Method Man - 4:21... The Day After?

Yeah. But how well publicised are those albums. And label life is hard for The Roots. They don't get the love from the media.

When you listen to a major radio station you hear the same 7 songs all day long.

I prefer to look at albums which mean something. And if they sell 100,000 copies they are a success. Just shell out no money on promotion and producers. Use in house producers and inhouse studios and give the artist full creative control. Then I'll be happy.
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#6
i could agree. i mean artists, big and no named ones, are finding that you dont need big budgets to record albums. you dont need major studios, you can record them in your homes. these major artists that have been around for years are starting to learn and see how much more money they could have had in their pockets. you dont need big labels to distribute your albums anymore.

i dont agree at all about the a&r comment. actually from what i hear a&r jobs are sort of being replaced because there really isnt much need for them anymore. i think they will still be around for sometime but alot of hungry producers and managers are taking on the role of the a&r to some degree.

this is an interesting time for the music business in general right now. everything is going through changes and most of it has to do with the internet.

there was an interesting article i read that i wish i would have saved or could find again, where the person who wrote it compared the people who listen to hip hop to the hippies of the 60's. it kind of went along with what tek said about the masses losing interest in the music
 
#7
CoolWaterz said:
hiphop needs to do something. its in a coma. i dont think it is dead yet, but it desperately needs a kick in the ass creatively and artistically. Everything is in a pause state. All the topics are old, the beats are repetitive, and nothing but no name new rappers making one hit wonders flooding the airwaves with anthems rather than actual music. Come on, "Let your shoulder lean" "snap your fingers"...these songs are garbage, awful. Lyricism and originality have gone out the door taking a back seat to upbeat and mind numbing lil jon-like beats.

Every artist out there who is respected in hiphop has been around for at least 10 years. No new players have emerged in hiphop with the exception of 50 cent/G Unit and their not really showing the longevity that artists such as nas or a jay z have. Noone has stepped up to the plate to take hiphop into the 21st century, unless hiphop in the 21st century doesnt get any better than what we have now. And if that is the case, im done with hiphop. Sometimes I still ocassionaly turn on Hot97 and actually enjoy a new song, but for the most part i play my older albums or completely switch genres.
oh god. we had these songs back in the 90's IE Tootsie Roll. Who gives a shit? It's party music plain and simple. If you take your time and examine every lyric to come out of Lil Jons mouth then you got a problem because he isn't meant to be a lyricist who spits some crazy metaphors and shit. It is what it is.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#8
PuffnScruff said:
i could agree. i mean artists, big and no named ones, are finding that you dont need big budgets to record albums. you dont need major studios, you can record them in your homes. these major artists that have been around for years are starting to learn and see how much more money they could have had in their pockets. you dont need big labels to distribute your albums anymore.

i dont agree at all about the a&r comment. actually from what i hear a&r jobs are sort of being replaced because there really isnt much need for them anymore. i think they will still be around for sometime but alot of hungry producers and managers are taking on the role of the a&r to some degree.

this is an interesting time for the music business in general right now. everything is going through changes and most of it has to do with the internet.

there was an interesting article i read that i wish i would have saved or could find again, where the person who wrote it compared the people who listen to hip hop to the hippies of the 60's. it kind of went along with what tek said about the masses losing interest in the music

I like your post.
 
#9
DUB CEE said:
oh god. we had these songs back in the 90's IE Tootsie Roll. Who gives a shit? It's party music plain and simple. If you take your time and examine every lyric to come out of Lil Jons mouth then you got a problem because he isn't meant to be a lyricist who spits some crazy metaphors and shit. It is what it is.
That's his point. Hip hop isn't about creativity anymore, whatever formula sells is what rappers will stick to. Every fuckin song on the radio sounds the same, most hiphop "artists" today are just pieces of shit trying to make money off of hiphop that'll be forgotten in a few years when crunk garbage is replaced with a new trend.

P.S. I find it funny how you always jump on any chance to defend mainstream garbage.
 

SMack

New Member
#10
Pittsey said:
They don't get the love from the media.
What you have to ask yourself, is why they dont get the love from the media?!

Its all well and good, bein' a Gangsta, but if it means your not getting the right coverage then maybe you have to re-think it.

Not saying he is a suck up or corporate kiss ass, but look at Jay-Z. Says the right things to the right people; pulls what stings he has to. Why?! To get his shit sold. To put bread on his table.

I agree that this is not the only reason there seems to be a slump in sales, but in my opinion, it is a large part of it.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#11
SMack said:
What you have to ask yourself, is why they dont get the love from the media?!

Its all well and good, bein' a Gangsta, but if it means your not getting the right coverage then maybe you have to re-think it.

Not saying he is a suck up or corporate kiss ass, but look at Jay-Z. Says the right things to the right people; pulls what stings he has to. Why?! To get his shit sold. To put bread on his table.

I agree that this is not the only reason there seems to be a slump in sales, but in my opinion, it is a large part of it.

Because money buys inches in magazines in newspapers and gets radio time. Not talent.
 

SMack

New Member
#12
KAMIKAZI said:
That's his point. Hip hop isn't about creativity anymore, whatever formula sells is what rappers will stick to. Every fuckin song on the radio sounds the same, most hiphop "artists" today are just pieces of shit trying to make money off of hiphop that'll be forgotten in a few years when crunk garbage is replaced with a new trend.

P.S. I find it funny how you always jump on any chance to defend mainstream garbage.
You are right. Most of it is garbage! Most of the artists are 'pieces of shit'. But at the end of the day they all have 1 goal. To make Money.

If some 13 year old wanna-be Gangsta is gonna buy that shit, they're gonna keep making it. Supply and demand.
 
#14
KAMIKAZI said:
That's his point. Hip hop isn't about creativity anymore, whatever formula sells is what rappers will stick to. Every fuckin song on the radio sounds the same, most hiphop "artists" today are just pieces of shit trying to make money off of hiphop that'll be forgotten in a few years when crunk garbage is replaced with a new trend.

P.S. I find it funny how you always jump on any chance to defend mainstream garbage.
Because some don't think it's garbage. My post is a opinion and the quality of music is opinion.
 
#15
[*]Artist's sales are declining. For example, a couple years back an artist like Young Dro would've went platinum.
They're sales are declining because they're putting out shit. And Young Dro not going platinum is 30 minutes is a good thing.


[*]Major artists are expressing their desire to be independant.
Who? Other than Meth?

[*]The masses (white people) are slowly losing interest in Hip-Hop. Emo bands are becoming the new trend for them, just look at the award shows.
People who lose interest in it are people who are just casual music fans. They're the same people who will listen 30,000 times over to a song cuz "it's catchy".

I myself am happy about this, this might lead to another artistic age of Hip-Hop.

Do you agree? Explain.
I think Hip Hop is just in "pause" mode because the top and most respected emcees are starting to do other things or not recording right now (Dre, Eminem, G Unit, Ja Rule, Nas, Jay etc...) and the artists that are putting stuff out, mostly suck.

I mean, Eminem said it best on the AM3 mixtape: "Shit Dre's quittin'/ Jay's quittin/ now it's just wankstas/ just sayin' the same shit/ it's fake and it's ancient.
 
#16
Bam_Margera said:
They're sales are declining because they're putting out shit. And Young Dro not going platinum is 30 minutes is a good thing.
I never said it was a bad thing.




Bam_Margera said:
Who? Other than Meth?
Fat Joe expressed his desire to be independant before he signed a label contract with Virgin Records (I think he signed one). Cam'ron became independant after leaving The Roc, and so on.
 
#17
Hip Hop may very well be in a transition stage. These declining sales are a good thing in the sense that shit artists can't be sold to the masses. Artists that pay their dues sell MUCH more than complete new comers (i.e. Yung Joc and Young Dro's debuts vs. 50 Cent and Chamillionaire's debuts). Mixtape artists need to get some love from these labels because people are still checking for the official Papoose and Saigon albums that haven't come yet. If those EVER come out, they'll sell solid numbers because of the fact that both artists have built reputable status among the Hip Hop community.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#18
MATW95 said:
Hip Hop may very well be in a transition stage. These declining sales are a good thing in the sense that shit artists can't be sold to the masses. Artists that pay their dues sell MUCH more than complete new comers (i.e. Yung Joc and Young Dro's debuts vs. 50 Cent and Chamillionaire's debuts). Mixtape artists need to get some love from these labels because people are still checking for the official Papoose and Saigon albums that haven't come yet. If those EVER come out, they'll sell solid numbers because of the fact that both artists have built reputable status among the Hip Hop community.

I agree.

Bishop Lamont should sell a few 100,000 copies because he paid his dues. Crooked I would go platinum. Look at the DVD he just put out. Considering he hasn't released and album and the DVD got little promo, it's top 10 on cduniverse sales.

And look at Chamilionaire, if he can go platinum, although I am a fan of his album, then it shows what happens when you pay your dues.
 
#19
Pittsey said:
I agree.

Bishop Lamont should sell a few 100,000 copies because he paid his dues. Crooked I would go platinum. Look at the DVD he just put out. Considering he hasn't released and album and the DVD got little promo, it's top 10 on cduniverse sales.

And look at Chamilionaire, if he can go platinum, although I am a fan of his album, then it shows what happens when you pay your dues.
Paying dues don't mean shit anymore unless you're a TRUE emcee.

Look at Proof... that dude practically invented paying dues in Detroit, got huge coverage in The Source in 99... and his solo debut still didn't sell well.

Royce has been paying his dues longer than Eminem, and he ain't gone mainstream yet.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
#20
"paying your dues" is something we say to make a point. technically, you need a series of fortunate incidents and coincidents to make it. if you're a nice person, if you say the right things to people, and if you put in your share of good old manual labor, all these things are going to be pro's for you. you can do all of that and still not make it or you can do none of that and still make it.

i don't think hiphop is in a transition. if you look at society and how it's progressed in various fields, you can see a wavy figure suggesting everything is spiralling. trends change and people change with them, and a lot of people probably think that hiphop is going to go into a pause and then it's gonna come back re-invented by the underground to once more take over. i don't think this is what we are witnessing right now. i think the reason why hiphop has changed, and still is changing, is that due to how the evolution of our society has unfolded, and due to the choices the western civilization as a whole have taken.i could go on for four more pages before making my point - i won't do that. my point is that today, the term "good quality" does not equal what it meant ten years ago. as far as music is concerned, least of all. look at the online remixing scene, not just tupac but all artists, and what happened to it after people learnt how to make cpu acapellas. now you have people who make layered remixes with cpu acapellas. the dynamic range of the sound appears as if overwhelmed by a swarm of bugs. it's audio chaos. yet people still download it, listen to it and consider it decent. another thing is the way drums are being mastered these days. loud, compressed kick drums with lots of reverb, a very simplistic snare sound that no longer sounds like an actual snare. lot of drum machine sounds, less real recorded sounds.

i thought the new bishop lamont was wack. the beat sucks so badly. the kick drum is sort of cool, although it sounds too digital for me. it doesn't sound like something you would expect a real live drum to make. i can't explain it, but it doesn't sound completely right. the melody is very, very simple, and very very repetative. i mean, it doesn't sound real. it sounds very, very digital. i thought "lean back" was using real samples. when i saw stortch playing it on a keyboard i was like "wtf?". it SOUNDED real, however. with the new bishop lamont, it's like he didn't even give it a shot. this new bishop lamont song man, the beat sucks ass in my honest opinion. compare it to any decent-at-the-least beat from a few years back and you see how simple and digital it sounds. when scott storch first started out he did a lot of fiery shit. his stuff sounded real, it was banging, it was nice. now it sounds more and more like lil jon's shit, in terms of mixing and mastering of course.

basically, the human race is breaking down barriers, bending rules, hitting new records, basically stretching all aspects of our lives in every and any way possible. this is the general mentality of the world. take the whole chicks-need-pleasure thing, for instance. it's not so long since society started to openly debate around female sexuality. i remember the time when all gynochologists and other sex-related specialists almost made an inside joke out of saying that all women should use a hand mirror to take a good and proper look at their vagina. by today, it's expected that a guy does so and so to keep a girl satisfied, and if he doesn't, he's a bad man. soon as we put this entire taboo on trial and beat it, we moved on to the next one. i don't really know what taboos are being tested right now, but my point is that we're trying to stretch everything as much as we can and i believe it's gonna get to the point where we throw away our morals and let the beast inside get the best of us. it's gonna happen gradually, but today it's okay to smoke cigs and it's frowned upon to gather a crew together and kick somebody's ass. more and more violence occurs though. compare the state of today to that of ten years ago and imagine what's gonna happen if shit keeps developing by the same proportion.

all of this applies to hiphop too. they're stretching it in each end to try and make it fit. there's no saying where mainstream hiphop will go. i just thank god for teh internet.
 

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