Harvard restricts gym use to accomodate Muslim Women

[not really ken]

If someone said "I can't work out with Democrats, we need our own time each week to work out Democrat-free" do you think it would be allowed? Of course not. Why give special treatment for religion?

This would be allowed, as nobody wants to work out with homosexuals.

/sarasm

First off, it's not 'special treatmet', to have a segregation of a situation where you are uncomfortable because of your sex and the attention that may bring; shouldn't be considered a privilege, but a fundamental right for women. They;ve fought for that in general society for decades. Go look at your public swimming pool, i guarentee you they have women only session.

It's also not for religion, though you can't seem to focus on any other point apart from that. Somebody even went off into a diatribe about immigrants. Like the two are universally synonymic.

The request was for female only, not muslim only. So how can you say that the basis of the petition is religion.

 

[PuffnScruff]

There's no cogency to your argument. A more apt analogy would be to request the use of the women's toilets during a specific time. Silly isn't it?!

that is not silly at all. if i could use the women's bathrooms i wouldn't have to wipe the piss of the seats before i took my shit

 

[Devious]

well 6 hours a week isn't really a big deal, so i don't see much problem with it. what i do have a problem with is the fact that they are making a concession to these women based on their religion. some people have pointed out that the time is for women and not just muslims. but i think we all know that if these women weren't muslim, Harvard never would have granted this. but in this day and age society is so afraid to offend anyone that we give special priveleges to people based on religion, and it's a double standard that isn't really fair to the rest of the population.

for example, there is a case going on here in Canada involving Sikhs and their turbans. there is a man who is protesting motorcycle helmet laws, saying that it is against his religion to cover his turban in any way, so therefore Sikhs shouldn't have to abide by helmet laws. he ultimately lost his case, but it has started a debate among lawmakers about whether a provision in the law could be made to exempt sikhs from being forced to wear helmets. now i understandthat people should be sensitive to different religious beliefs, but since when does your religion give you the right to break the law? if i started up a religion based around crime, can i use this as a defense in court? "Your honor, it is against my religion to not rob banks."

so to sum up, i have no problem with Harvard granting 6 hours a week to women for private women-only gym time. but i have a problem with why it was granted in the first place.

 

[Illuminattile]

First off, it's not 'special treatmet', to have a segregation of a situation where you are uncomfortable because of your sex and the attention that may bring; shouldn't be considered a privilege, but a fundamental right for women. They;ve fought for that in general society for decades. Go look at your public swimming pool, i guarentee you they have women only session.

They've fought for decades for equality, not segregation. The idea that if they exercise with men, they'll get constantly ogled and hit on just shows a stereotypical view of men. And if that's a big deal, should they not ban lesbians and bisexual women too?

Gyms that have women-only hours probably do so because there was a big enough demand for it, not because a handful of religious people decided it was immoral for them to exercise with men.

It's also not for religion, though you can't seem to focus on any other point apart from that. Somebody even went off into a diatribe about immigrants. Like the two are universally synonymic.

The request was for female only, not muslim only. So how can you say that the basis of the petition is religion.

Because it is based on religion. These women want to use the gym without men, because their religion says they should cover themselves up around men. That's the basis for the petition, it's not that six women decided that they didn't want to work out with men, and they all just happened to be Muslims.

 

[Da_Funk]

I would have to look at their reasons. Of course I don't think anyone who said that would have very good reasons for it as it's such a ridiculous thing to say.

And religion is a good reason? Please...

 

[hizzle?]

I hate it when immigrants come in a country and bring their Sharia with them and try to impose it on their welcoming culture...

If you want to cut hands and tongues of your criminals, stay in your country, don't bring that with you.

I'm an immigrant and I'm fucking pissed off at the ignorant immigrants who act as if their new country has to be like their old one.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Shahin]

The idea that if they exercise with men, they'll get constantly ogled and hit on just shows a stereotypical view of men.

A stereotypical view rooted in biology and reality. Just because it's stereotypical it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[dillaxx]

A stereotypical view rooted in biology and reality. Just because it's stereotypical it doesn't make it any less true.

black people have big lips, chinese people have small dicks, indian people smell like shit, all irish people are drunk bastards.... three of those are biological stereotypes....so i should go out and exercise each and everyone of them because "Just because it's stereotypical it doesn't make it any less true"????

ok...all muslims are terrorists...

 

[Devious]

black people have big lips, chinese people have small dicks, indian people smell like shit, all irish people are drunk bastards.... three of those are biological stereotypes....so i should go out and exercise each and everyone of them because "Just because it's stereotypical it doesn't make it any less true"????

ok...all muslims are terrorists...

ummm, i think his point when saying that was that not everything we know of as a stereotype is wrong. some stereotypes are true. that in no way implies that all stereotypes are true and that we should all believe them. i don't know how you got that from what he said, unless you're trying to be sarcastic. obviously that wasn't what he meant.

although i must point out that the stereotype in questio is not true. sure some guys ogle and drool all over women at the gym. but to assume that every guy does that is just wrong and stupid. unless he was being sarcastic as well lol.

 

[Shahin]

ummm, i think his point when saying that was that not everything we know of as a stereotype is wrong. some stereotypes are true. that in no way implies that all stereotypes are true and that we should all believe them. i don't know how you got that from what he said, unless you're trying to be sarcastic. obviously that wasn't what he meant.

although i must point out that the stereotype in questio is not true. sure some guys ogle and drool all over women at the gym. but to assume that every guy does that is just wrong and stupid. unless he was being sarcastic as well lol.

I never meant all guys stare like perverts, but I'm saying it's a natural reaction for men to be interested (and at the very least sneak a few looks when we think they don't notice) when there's an attractive woman in our presence.

 

[Devious]

I never meant all guys stare like perverts, but I'm saying it's a natural reaction for men to be interested (and at the very least sneak a few looks when we think they don't notice) when there's an attractive woman in our presence.

true, but from my experiences at coed gyms, the guys are usually too preoccupied with what they're doing to pay much attention to women. i mean you may notice a few of them, but for the most part i haven't seen this happen much. of course it does happen tho.

 

[Chronic]

^^
Indeed. I'll notice all the hot women in the gym but mostly I'm focused on working out. It's not even perverse, you can appreciate beautiful women without thinking of cumming over their face.

 

[S O F I]

This whole "the men are or aren't looking at the women" argument is stupid to begin with. You don't concede to somebody gym time because they are simply "uncomfortable". Lack of comfort comes from within. And whoever said this has no religious ties is just absurd. Of course it does. The reason 6 Muslim women asked is because they don't want to be seen by men in work-out gear, as they'd reveal more than their religious following allows.

In the end, Harvard is a private school and can do what it wants. It's not unconstitutional because there's no establishment of church and state, as it's not state-funded or federally funded, as far as I know.

Maybe Harvard has a strong and influential Islamic student community, maybe Harvard doesn't want to intolerant to religious beliefs, we don't know. But, the bottom line is, they were allowed Gym time BECAUSE they wanted to NOT reveal themselves when working out as their religious forbids them, and NOT simply because they'll feel uncomfortable if a man is checking out their ass.

 

[ArtsyGirl]

We had a group of lifesavers trying out here in Australia one of them was a Muslim woman. Swimwear would cause a problem to the covering up thing so they got someone to make a swim suit that covered her up according to her beliefs but allowed her to still do the job. I'm sure if the only issue is still being covered up they could get someone to do gym wear the same way, there might be a market for it who knows.

 

[PuffnScruff]

they should invest in some under armor wear. although, if they have a hot body that would only make men look at them more

 

[S O F I]

We had a group of lifesavers trying out here in Australia one of them was a Muslim woman. Swimwear would cause a problem to the covering up thing so they got someone to make a swim suit that covered her up according to her beliefs but allowed her to still do the job. I'm sure if the only issue is still being covered up they could get someone to do gym wear the same way, there might be a market for it who knows.

I know a girl, she's American but Muslim, and I saw some brand tag on her clothing (thing) that said "Urban Muslim" or something like that.

 

[dillaxx]

I know a girl, she's American but Muslim, and I saw some brand tag on her clothing (thing) that said "Urban Muslim" or something like that.

that's kinda funny... only because it must be a counterfeit brand based in indonesia made in sweat shops...

 

[ArtsyGirl]

I know a girl, she's American but Muslim, and I saw some brand tag on her clothing (thing) that said "Urban Muslim" or something like that.

Yeah I saw a thing on the news about fashion designers making a line of clothing for Muslim women.