Gaza

[Jokerman]

He's referring to the founding of the Jewish state not the wars that resulted.

Maybe, but he was quoting Morris talking about the Gaza Strip.

 

[Baukem]

i am from the netherlands, but originally from atlit and i will be returning to haifa next year.

wether you agree or not with the settlers, fact remains: if hamas or islamic jihad or w/e says this is a victory because of their resistance, it means only more violence is comming cuz they think their terror is working. more terror isnt good for any side -- the jews cant keep giving up land, since the terrorists wont stop until whole israel is gone. in my opinion israel shouldnt be giving up the west bank.. i heard comments about israel controlling the water zones in that area? well guess what... have you seen those big water-towers all around the palestinian territories? those are controlled by the palestinian mafia, even if you want to make a pipe-line the arabs will hold you back from doing it and THATS the reason why some palestinians dont have access to water... why is this happening you might ask? simple... just so they can blame the jews for not giving water... when this is not at all what is going on... simply another propaganda stunt... makes you wonder if that kind of palestinians really care about their own people -

well one thing is certain
the whole city of jerusalem must remain under israeli control... no matter what

and about that website... jewsagainstzionism.com
i dont even consider them jews in the first place , so whatever...
not that im someone to judge that ofcourse but still.... its easy for them to talk, they live in america and hardly speak descent hebrew... what makes them have the right to judge israel is such a horrible way... and dont think there are many people like this... this is just a stupid american website of ignorant fanatics that like to call themselves jews

 

[TecK NeeX]

Hamas's leader Khaled Marshal has already called the withdrawal "the beginning of the end" of Israel.

So whats your point? countless Jews have called for the extermination of all palestinians and actually brought forward the idea of pushing all palestinians to neighbouring countries, does that mean all Israelis/Jews share the same view?

 

[TecK NeeX]

and about that website... jewsagainstzionism.com
i dont even consider them jews in the first place , so whatever...
not that im someone to judge that ofcourse but still.... its easy for them to talk, they live in america and hardly speak descent hebrew... what makes them have the right to judge israel is such a horrible way... and dont think there are many people like this... this is just a stupid american website of ignorant fanatics that like to call themselves jews

If you know anything about the Jewish religion you would understand why True Torah Jews refuse to live in Israel. Israel according to the Torah was not supposed to be established until the arrival of the "Awaited Messiah" who along with his followers according to the Torah will free Israel from foreign bondage and bring the country back to former glory.

Since this Messiah has not arrived yet those Jews will continue to refuse and recognize the current state of Israel. They instead now await the Messiah to aide them in freeing Israel from these Zionists. Absolutely everything these zionists have done in israel since 1948 contradicts the beliefs of the Torah in every way.

 

[Smoking_gunz]

If you know anything about the Jewish religion you would understand why True Torah Jews refuse to live in Israel. Israel according to the Torah was not supposed to be established until the arrival of the "Awaited Messiah" who along with his followers according to the Torah will free Israel from foreign bondage and bring the country back to former glory.

Since this Messiah has not arrived yet those Jews will continue to refuse and recognize the current state of Israel. They instead now await the Messiah to aide them in freeing Israel from these Zionists. Absolutely everything these zionists have done in israel since 1948 contradicts the beliefs of the Torah in every way.

I hope that by "True Torah Jews" you refer to religous jews. There are a lot of diffrent perspectives between diffrent religous jews. Personally i don't agree with them. They're entitled to their own opinion if they wish to judge us, so be it. But as it appears they don't know shit.

 

[TecK NeeX]

I hope that by "True Torah Jews" you refer to religous jews. There are a lot of diffrent perspectives between diffrent religous jews. Personally i don't agree with them. They're entitled to their own opinion if they wish to judge us, so be it. But as it appears they don't know shit.

It aint no damn opinion, it's what can be found in the Torah and if you believe their belief is shit then you might as well call the teachings of the Torah shit as well.

 

[Smoking_gunz]

It aint no damn opinion, it's what can be found in the Torah and if you believe their belief is shit then you might as well call the teachings of the Torah shit as well.

I never said their religous belief is shit, i mean't that they don't know shit about living in israel, there by they can say whatever they want.. but it doesn't make a diffrence. Now it's well known that SOME religous people don't recgonise israel as a state because of the messiah, but there are religous jews that work, serve in the military, and do everything like every other non-religous jew. If you claim that every religous jew doesn't recgonise israel as a state, then you are WRONG.

Btw, these jews you are refering too are called "Hasidic jews"

 

[Baukem]

the true torah jews? they ignorant thats what it is...
and again ur statement about how everything israel has done contradicts the thorah shows how prejudiced you are teck
i did know about the messiah
but if u agree so much with these true torah jews why do u want to see jews gone now from the land? also... there are several more conditions that can never be achieved without the zionists because they are being made impossible by the muslims and christians... (think of the holy treasures of jerusalem.. which vatican has stolen and they might even possess the 10 commendments-- or the mosque that is built on the place where the temple was in order to prevent the jewish ppl to ressurect on judgement day ...)

 

[Morris]

Well if I claimed to be an expert on this subject I would be a liar, but this has nothing to do with religion or race. It has to do with people taking something that doesnt belong to them and calling it their own, commonly known as theft.

You weren't kidding: you definitely aren't an expert on this subject. In fact, you're the first person I've ever known who calls it theft when people occupy vacant land.

So whats your point? countless Jews have called for the extermination of all palestinians and actually brought forward the idea of pushing all palestinians to neighbouring countries, does that mean all Israelis/Jews share the same view?

Countless Jews don't speak for Israel. Mashaal speaks for Hamas. My point, which I thought was pretty easy to understand, was that the withdrawal from Gaza is being seen by Palestinian militants not as a possible beginning toward a peace agreement but as a capitulation and "beginning of the end" by which they can destroy Israel.

 

[Khaled]

You weren't kidding: you definitely aren't an expert on this subject. In fact, you're the first person I've ever known who calls it theft when people occupy vacant land.

vacant land???
of course, after the jews kicked all palestinians out to neighbouring countries

The jews has a claim at this country as much as the palastinen do

It's easy to say that now... Is Israel willing to take back the palestinians living in Jordan and Lebanon???

 

[Morris]

vacant land???
of course, after the jews kicked all palestinians out to neighbouring countries

Until the 1948 war, not a single Palestinian in the region was displaced by a Jew. 75% of the Palestinians who left their homes during the war never saw an Israeli soldier.

It would have been even harder for Jews to kick Palestinians out of the Gaza considering they didn't control that land until 1967. And considering that there are currently over 1 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, it's pretty much impossible to argue that Israel displaced them in the Gaza Strip.

The 6,000 or so Jews that lived in the Gaza Strip moved and lived there voluntarily, and they did not steal Palestinian homes or displace a single Palestinian. Those 6,000 Jews had every right to settle in the Gaza Strip and under every tenant of international law, those people were allowed to live there, just like 1.2 million Arabs have the right to live in Israel.

 

[Khaled]

^^

Until the 1948 war, not a single Palestinian in the region was displaced by a Jew. 75% of the Palestinians who left their homes during the war never saw an Israeli soldier.

Doesn't mean they were not caused to flee their home...

In the period from 1917 to 1949, Israel had occupied 78% of the land of Palestine and evicted or caused to flee more than 750,000 Palestinian refugees to Gaza Strip

you are restricting all your argument about the Gaza Strip, as if it was completely independant from the Israel-Arab Contexte. Do you deny also the massacres of palestinians such as in Deir Yassin and the occupation of purely arab cities like Jaffa and Acre??

 

[Morris]

you are restricting all your argument about the Gaza Strip, as if it was completely independant from the Israel-Arab Contexte.

Do you see the title of this thread? My responses have been to those who have claimed that Palestinians have been displaced out of the Gaza Strip, which is almost total nonsense.

Do you deny also the massacres of palestinians such as in Deir Yassin and the occupation of purely arab cities like Jaffa and Acre??

There was no massacre at Deir Yassin. And of course Israel occupied Arab cities: that's generally what you try to do if those cities are being used as staging points for attacks against you. Jaffa and Acre were occupied for the same reason the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and West Bank were occupied: security measures.

In the period from 1917 to 1949, Israel had occupied 78% of the land of Palestine and evicted or caused to flee more than 750,000 Palestinian refugees to Gaza Strip

In the period from 1917 to 1949, Jews became 33% of the population in the Mandate of Palestine. In 1948, Israel was granted 13% of the lands of the Mandate of Palestine. Only through the invasion of Israel by Palestinian militias and other militias from Jordan/Egypt and other Arab nations did Israel end up with more land after beating them.

 

[Dave D]

You weren't kidding: you definitely aren't an expert on this subject. In fact, you're the first person I've ever known who calls it theft when people occupy vacant land.

Could you please show me one article or news report that says that land was vacant.

 

[Khaled]

There was no massacre at Deir Yassin

and the jewish genocide never happened

 

[TecK NeeX]

Countless Jews don't speak for Israel. Mashaal speaks for Hamas. My point, which I thought was pretty easy to understand, was that the withdrawal from Gaza is being seen by Palestinian militants not as a possible beginning toward a peace agreement but as a capitulation and "beginning of the end" by which they can destroy Israel.

Well then Hamas certainly doesn't speak for Palestine or the Palestinians so why even bring it up? and dont tell me they do

the true torah jews? they ignorant thats what it is...

They know a hell of alot more than you and thats a fact

and again ur statement about how everything israel has done contradicts the thorah shows how prejudiced you are teck

Umm wtf? im simply stating what those Jews say about the State of Israel and why they believe everything it's leaders have done since 1948 contradicts the teachings of the Torah

but if u agree so much with these true torah jews why do u want to see jews gone now from the land?

Never did i say i wanted them gone, I've always supported the 2 state solution.

and the jewish genocide never happened

Oh oh Uh dont be such an anti-semite, it's ok for them to deny massacres but it's not ok for us bhahaha

 

[devils_advok8]

Countless Jews don't speak for Israel. Mashaal speaks for Hamas. My point, which I thought was pretty easy to understand, was that the withdrawal from Gaza is being seen by Palestinian militants not as a possible beginning toward a peace agreement but as a capitulation and "beginning of the end" by which they can destroy Israel.

But wasnt this what Arafat, Sheikh Yasseen, Al-Rantisi, Yahya Ayyash and others wanted anyways?Do they not speak on the behalf of Palestinian people?That's what they got in mind anyways, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, then Israel.You're making it sound as if it were a new plan revealed.This is old news.There's no way they'll settle for just the West Bank and Gaza.

 

[Morris]

Could you please show me one article or news report that says that land was vacant.

I'm not saying the Gaza Strip was vacant. I'm saying that the land in the Gaza Strip that Jews settled on was vacant.

and the jewish genocide never happened

Deir Yassin was the result of a few days of house to house fighting between Israeli and Arab militias. Yes, a few dozen civilians were killed. No, there was no systematic massacre or policy of killing civilians.

Well then Hamas certainly doesn't speak for Palestine or the Palestinians so why even bring it up? and dont tell me they do

You're making it sound as if it were a new plan revealed.This is old news.There's no way they'll settle for just the West Bank and Gaza.

I've now explained my comments twice. why are people asking me why I wrote that?

Somebody wrote " but i predict them greedy terrorists will just keep attacking until everyone is gone..."

I responded that Hamas's leader has already stated that the withdrawal is the beginning of the end of Israel. In otherwords, I was affirming his comment. No more and no less.

 

[Khaled]

Deir Yassin was the result of a few days of house to house fighting between Israeli and Arab militias. Yes, a few dozen civilians were killed. No, there was no systematic massacre or policy of killing civilians.

i don't know what they taught you at school, but when more than 300 civillians are killed, it is a massacre. and when when civillians (palestinians) flee as a results of these fights... You can't say "they left willingly" and left the land vacant. And this does not give any legitimacy to the Occupation of Israel by the jew any moe than the British mandate land grant

Israel was granted 13% of the lands of the Mandate of Palestine

A mandate is not ownership... just so you know.. the Brits did not have the authority to give the jews any land in Palestine.
Israel was recognized later on, but that doesn't mean it's any less of a form of occupation

 

[Jokerman]

About 120 ppl were killed at Deir Yassin. How many of them were innocent civilians and how many were milita? The answer depends on which side you side with, because no one is sure. Some sources originally reported a death toll of around 254, but that number has recently been shown to be a contemporary exaggeration that was disseminated for a variety of political reasons. Still, too many women and children. Yet the attack was carried out by underground paramilitary dissidents who were not acting on behalf of the Haganah.