Drug Smuggling & the death penalty

[The.Menace]

there is a saying in german which goes something like "nescience doesnt protect you from punishment"..

na man, that ain't from germany, that's original a latin sayin, the old romans invented it.

 

[Sebastian]

lol, i didnt mean the germans invented it, i have no clue where its from..i just wanted to say that its a saying which is used in germany

 

[Rukas]

What shits me, is the Australian government is too pussy to do anything about it. We help Indonesia so much with everything from aid to troops when they have problems, and they cant even send these people back to Australia for trial. I don’t want them set free, I want them prosecuted in Australia. Weed doesn’t justify murder. Heroin doesn’t justify murder. You know damn well if they were American the Americans would put their foot down. All Australia has to do is say, "let them go, or you will fuck up ties with us, and we wont send you aid anymore."

What shits me even more about the Australian government is they are on the news now, all upset “oh we cant do anything to help,” and “we don’t want to see any Australians die.” What total and utter fucking crap. The last arrests, the 9 for Heroin, the bust was coordinated by a joint task force of Australian and Bali Police, so the Australian government KNEW about it, and they KNEW the consequences. They were busted on the plane from Bali to Sydney, the Australians helped bust them. Why the fuck didn’t they wait and bust them in Sydney? When they arrested Schapelle Corby, they waited until she touched down in Bali from Sydney, so with these 9 they should wait until they touch down in Sydney from Bali, and try them under Sydney law. The Australian government knew they would be put to death, and yet they are the ones that arrested them! And now they are bitching that they cant help and they don’t want to see any Australians die?!! WELL YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE FUCKING HELPED ARREST THEM IN BALI THEN YOU DUMB FUCKS!

 

[not really ken]

I think alot of people views would change if they had someone really close to themsleves hooked on heroin. (getting hooked is also "only one mistake")

 

[Amara]

what? lol, no i dont love it..

Neither do I, but it sounded good at the time.

 

[Rukas]

The thing I would question is whether drugs offences are really deserving of the death penalty.... the heroin charge against the 9 or so people implicated in a smuggling ring - ok, that's one thing. But as for Schapelle Corby, it was merely marjuana (arguably a less harmful drug, albeit a large quantity of it), possibly planted in her bags....

No drug deserves the death penalty. Drugs are a demand and supply industry, no one forces people to take drugs, its your choice. I dont think it should matter whether its a weaker drug or a stronger drug, drugs are drugs. The fact is under Aust. law weed is decriminalized yes, but that doesnt really have an impact on this trial.

We're talking about killing someone over drugs, thats absurd. And I dont think its smart to differentiate between the types of drugs, because the Indonesian government doesnt. They arent going to say, "oh its just weed, we'll kill you a little softer," or "oh thats heroin, we'll kill you twice as much!" Death is death, drugs are drugs. No drug warrants death, as the dealing of drugs doesnt force harm onto people, the act of importing drugs doesnt directly effect anyone who doesnt chose to be directly effected.

I know thats not what you were saying exactly, Im just ranting on . Sorry.

 

[meltiger]

Michael,

In light of the Corby case, these imbeciles knew exactly what the laws were in Indonesia and the risk they were taking. They knew damn well that if caught they would potentially face the firing squad. That was the risk that they chose of their own free will to make.

They deserve any punishment the Indonesian system sees fit to hand them. Given one of them mentioned Corby to his mother after his arrest they can hardly claim ignorance of the laws up there.

Don't blame the Government for their stupidity. The Government cannot hold our hands all the time...................................

 

[Amara]

^ I wonder what effect their stupidity will have on her case.... I dare say the incentive to deter others will be stronger now.

 

[Rukas]

^ Well actually the type of drug and the quantity are very important. Drugs aren't just drugs. There is a scale, there is a differentiation - that is how they calculate the penalties in Australian Law which is why I question the harshness of the proposed penalty in regards to Schapelle. SO for instance, you get a heafty penalty for carrying a small amount a hard drug and a lesser penalty for the same amount of a softer drug. You have to consider which are worse - some have harsher effects that is why some may be considered more deserving of punnishment if caught traficking.

Thats Australia. You cant scale something in Bali when the result is death. You cant kill someone for one type of drug and not the other, you shouldnt kill people for any types of drugs.

 

[Rukas]

I think alot of people views would change if they had someone really close to themsleves hooked on heroin. (getting hooked is also "only one mistake")

My friend battled the demon for some years, I saw it first hand. Hes winning now but hes still a bit fucked in the head, although he has a good job now and is doing well. But it was always his choice, no one stuck the needle in his arm. The drug dealer shouldnt be killed because he chose to buy the drugs off him.

 

[Amara]

Thats Australia. You cant scale something in Bali when the result is death. You cant kill someone for one type of drug and not the other, you shouldnt kill people for any types of drugs.

I'm not saying anyone should be killed. I am trying to say that there seems to be even less justification for death when comparing a heroin smuggling ring with a potentially innocent traveller carrying marijuana. Neither deserves death, but to me Corby deserves less than life imprisonment also.

 

[meltiger]

^ I wonder what effect their stupidity will have on her case.... I dare say the incentive to deter others will be stronger now.

I don't really think the new case will have any real effect, although it puts the government in a hard position in attempting to go into bat for her and not these new idiots.

What is going to get her killed is the do-gooders on her side making corruption allegations and so forth ... They need to shut their mouths and let her legal team try to get her off first - Indonesia has never liked Australian interference in their affairs.

 

[Sebastian]

No drug deserves the death penalty. Drugs are a demand and supply industry, no one forces people to take drugs, its your choice. I dont think it should matter whether its a weaker drug or a stronger drug, drugs are drugs. The fact is under Aust. law weed is decriminalized yes, but that doesnt really have an impact on this trial.

We're talking about killing someone over drugs, thats absurd. And I dont think its smart to differentiate between the types of drugs, because the Indonesian government doesnt. They arent going to say, "oh its just weed, we'll kill you a little softer," or "oh thats heroin, we'll kill you twice as much!" Death is death, drugs are drugs. No drug warrants death, as the dealing of drugs doesnt force harm onto people, the act of importing drugs doesnt directly effect anyone who doesnt chose to be directly effected.

I know thats not what you were saying exactly, Im just ranting on . Sorry.

if u think about it, its not really (always) your "free choice"...lets take the example of young children. u know as well as i know that there are young children all over the world who take drugs, get addicted to them, struggle and maybe even die. the reason why they take it is not always only their free choice. they take drugs because of the circumstances they live in/have to grow up in, because they dont know how bad the consequences of taking drugs can be, etc...

now there is someone somewhere in the world who gets rich at the expense of other people misery, nescience, etc knowing people will die because of the stuff hes selling!

 

[Rukas]

if u think about it, its not really (always) your "free choice"...lets take the example of young children. u know as well as i know that there are young children all over the world who take drugs, get addicted to them, struggle and maybe even die. the reason why they take it is not always only their free choice. they take drugs because of the circumstances they live in/have to grow up in, because they dont know how bad the consequences of taking drugs can be, etc...

Then instead of executing people that import drugs, the government and police should fix the circumstances that cause people to take drugs. If there was no need to take drugs, there wouldnt be any drug dealers in the world.

Ultimatly though, its always their choice to start taking drugs. It was my choice to smoke weed, I dont blame my dealer, if it wasnt him it would have been someone else. No one ever forced me to smoke weed.

now there is someone somewhere in the world who gets rich at the expense of other people misery, nescience, etc knowing people will die because of the stuff hes selling!

Hmm you're right!... Lets go execute and arrest liquor store workers and bar tenders too... Afterall, alcahol is the deadliest drug in the world, and takes advantage of peoples misery more than anything.

 

[The.Menace]

now there is someone somewhere in the world who gets rich at the expense of other people misery, nescience, etc knowing people will die because of the stuff hes selling!

That's my favorite argument why I think weed should be legal. I want to smoke, but I don't want to support criminals. Give me a chance to buy my stuff from a government controlled shop and I will ...and give my money to the poor.

@bReal: didn't wanna diss you with the other post, just wanted to let you know where that sayin is comming from.

ANYWAY, back to topic. Before I spend life in prision I'd rather die. So I don't think pleading to put them in jail for life really helps. If you want to help them, you have to get them back to Australia, put them in jail for 5 years or something (whatever you're law is like) and then let them free. To prevent their death doesn't help if they go to jail for life. - and yeah, I know it won't happen.

 

[Sebastian]

Then instead of executing people that import drugs, the government and police should fix the circumstances that cause people to take drugs. If there was no need to take drugs, there wouldnt be any drug dealers in the world.

Ultimatly though, its always their choice to start taking drugs. It was my choice to smoke weed, I dont blame my dealer, if it wasnt him it would have been someone else. No one ever forced me to smoke weed.


Hmm you're right!... Lets go execute and arrest liquor store workers and bar tenders too... Afterall, alcahol is the deadliest drug in the world, and takes advantage of peoples misery more than anything.

i did not say these people deserve to die! (said it in a previous post too)

all i wanted to say is that its not that simple and harmless as your post made it look like..

@bReal: didn't wanna diss you with the other post, just wanted to let you know where that sayin is comming from.

yeah, i understood..its all good

 

[LL COOL PAC]

ok i feel a rant coming on

I can't believe that any of you think the death penalty is fair enough for the drug smugglers. Okay they're probably greedy shits but what's the difference between them and e.g. the people behind abuses in aid distribution in the developing world. The people pulling the strings on both sides are both ruining people's lives, only we say one side gets fucked over and the other side gets left alone. Greed periodically gets the better of all of us, and its just harsh to say that you should get whacked for making a mistake.

Whilst I agree that drug smuggling is a crime motivated by greed which (especially in the case of heroin) ruins lives, society as a whole bears much of the blame for making this the case. The unfortunate side-effect of market capitalism which keeps large percentages of the world poor will always pack the ranks of drug smugglers, some of which are only smuggling because the other ways they have of earning money are so abjectly awful. (perhaps not the case with the Aussies, but then you don't know that)
Anyway, the most pernicious effects of heroin use stem from the fact that it's illegal, a fact that jacks up the street price, obliging junkies to steal and do dodgy things to fund their habits, and putting the business in the hands of criminal gangs. If governments really wanted to have an effect on drug-crime and use etc. they would organise it so anyone could drop into a pharmacy and be allowed to use a free and clean supply of heroin. You'd eliminate 99.9% of dealers overnight, and a study which was pointed out to me said that it works in curing people of addiction.
But of course the muppets in power wouldn't be having it because drugs are baaad and it would be unpopular

Something that keeps recuring during this thread is the point is not whether or not the death penalty is right, it is whether or not the smugglers should be tried in Indonesia and be subject to that country's laws. They did what they did knowing the risks. What they did is an act of extreme greed and stupidity etc

I would say to that seeing as they were smuggling drugs out of the country, and the negative effects of said drug-peddling would be felt in Australia, I can't really see what business Indonesia has in charging them. Secondly, I think condemning people to death for drugs offences is idiotic and horrible since you're effectively condemning an indefinite amount of unlucky people to death, as people react much more strongly to the detection rate than the severity of punishment.
btw there are international agreements, IIRC, to stop the drugs leaving your soil called the International schminternational but we need to talk in terms of common sense.

now back to my tequilla.......

 

[Default MX]

Haha, thats fucked up.

Oh, and by the way we have death by firing squad here in washington state.

 

[Illuminattile]

Anyway, the most pernicious effects of heroin use stem from the fact that it's illegal, a fact that jacks up the street price, obliging junkies to steal and do dodgy things to fund their habits, and putting the business in the hands of criminal gangs. If governments really wanted to have an effect on drug-crime and use etc. they would organise it so anyone could drop into a pharmacy and be allowed to use a free and clean supply of heroin. You'd eliminate 99.9% of dealers overnight, and a study which was pointed out to me said that it works in curing people of addiction.
But of course the muppets in power wouldn't be having it because drugs are baaad and it would be unpopular

If governments decriminalised drugs, then the people who now criticise the government's unwillingness to legalise drugs would just switch to criticising the government's willingness to legalise drugs just so they can make money from the taxation, a la cigarettes.

 

[RFTP]

Like Rukas said; People somehow, somewhere CHOSED to stick the needle in their arm. While a rape-victim never did ask for beeing raped or murdered. Plus, by that judgment we should give deathpenalty to tobacoocompanies etc. Cause poison is poison right? Not to mention that in the long run cigarette has done more damage to humans then heroin/cocaine. You can't just selectivly chose what fits the glove. if drug dealers ought to get death penalty, then so should people selling cigarettes.