Doing a car research paper *deeez and duke please*

[gaylord]

...at least im thinking about it for class.... we have to have a research paper on an issue that is debatable, so i figured i might do one on cars and actually learn some more about them, not mechanically but more as a whole...

the reason im asking here is because it was here almost a year ago that i actually got thrown on my ass in this section cuz i was rather ignorant about cars and kinda threw shit around the walls saying some ignorant shit... but then some members took the time to kinda give me the basics of the basics on cars, and from then on it was all good...

so what im asking is that some of the "car experts" here, just kinda help me out a little bit along the way... im not asking you to do any of the work, just kinda make sure that my ideas are backed up by CREDIBLE proof... so you dont even have to make my argument for me.... i'm sure i'll be doing little increments nightly, and it is a long term project so im not desperate.... still, i might need some help..

so now onto what im proposing to my teacher as my topic is evaluating the philosophies of a country and the car it makes... might sound silly, but i guess i still have some of my "ignorance" left in me... but kinda along the lines of american cars ideally built on power and the different methods of achieving or getting that power, compared to the japanese ideologies of engineering (smaller engines usually, not a whole lotta power right out the box, use of forced induction more often) vs. the german ideology of power and luxury somewhat fused into one.... it may sound a bit jumbled at first, but basically, it's explaining these ideologies and then me taking a stance on one of them or just simply blasting one country's fallacies...

so now that that's outta the way:

1. it seems that i got a good topic in mind... i feel i could rightfully support it. the thing is, do these engineering ideologies/philosophies really exist, or is this something in my mind?

2. can ya keep me in check along the way.....?

much appreciated....

 

[gaylord]

anyone here?

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I remember reading this thread from some other website I used to post on a couple years ago, and it took me a while to find it. You'd better thank me for it, it answers your questions. Read EVERY post. It's a bit long, but you should be able to read everything in 15 minutes.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718693

While most posts there are technically secondary sources, they are accurate for the most part, and if they're not, usually somebody corrects them. It will pretty much tell you ALL about why cars from America, Japan and Europe (specifically Germany) are the way they are. It should give you a pretty decent idea of what to search for in terms of building a list of references for research.

I still remember the first time I read that article a couple years ago, it was really interesting to read that WWII played quite a role in how the auto industry is today.

 

[gaylord]

well, it's 11 right now and im about to hit the sack, but i'll check it out.... thanks alot though.. it looks good...

so im guessing that my topic has some basis, right? it can be supported if the right sources are consulted?

 

[S O F I]

Factor in oil prices, if you can.

 

[gaylord]

yes, i will, sofi.... my topic seems rather broad, but it'll only start off that way.... we'll start with ideologies/philosophies of the countries and then narrow down to sales numbers of each country, and what has determined these prices... and yeah, oil is a huge factor.... so... def. how smaller jap engines save fuel and how americans are flocking to not only hybrids, but just smaller more efficient engines.....

oh and deez, i saw a couple of pics of the EVO, not the new one, but the current one... and just watching it just run throw inches of snow like it was nothing def. has me as a believer.... i guess, if given a chance, i'd take an EVO

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

how smaller jap engines save fuel and how americans are flocking to not only hybrids, but just smaller more efficient engines.....

It's not only the fact that Japanese automakers specifically can pack more of a punch into a smaller engine, it's the fact that the place a lot of focus on efficiency. Not just in terms of hp/liter, but overall. America is the land of the most wasteful motherfuckers on the planet. In terms of automobiles, we've got the biggest roads with the biggest vehicles known to man, yet behind the wheel of most gargantuan-sized GM products (Suburbans, Hummers, etc.) are soccer moms and housewives, 5'8" at best. They don't need vehicles like that, but they want them. And as a result of that want, it is necessary for American car manufacturers (and Japanese manufacturers, especially Toyota and Nissan who both make truck V-8s) to make massive engines with mountains of torque to propel such tanks. Bigger vehicles = bigger engines = greater gas consumption. Japanese drivers aren't that stupid, so they prefer smaller vehicles for their smaller roads and don't feel the need to have the biggest Tonka truck for their daily commute.

oh and deez, i saw a couple of pics of the EVO, not the new one, but the current one... and just watching it just run throw inches of snow like it was nothing def. has me as a believer.... i guess, if given a chance, i'd take an EVO

That a boy.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

How is your research paper going?

 

[gaylord]

i need examples of technology used in cars for fuel economy or just overall efficiency...... VVT, V-tec, etc.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/tech_index.html

^ Give this entire page a read, specifically the part about engines. It goes into detail about the various types of VVT (VTEC, i-VTEC, VVT-i, VVTL-i, MIVEC, VarioCam, VANOS, etc.) and the advantages and disadvantages. It also talks about the good and bad effects forced induction has on both fuel economy and efficiency.

 

[gaylord]

thanks..... i got a week from this friday to finish and present this... thanks alot for the help....

since im debation an issue that could be debatable from both sides of the fence, should i comment on each country's philosophy? like italians having the lambos and ferraris and their emphasis on super cars, japanese for efficiency, and the germans for blending luxury and performance together and while not being completely efficient, not all german cars are gas-guzzlers?? is that 1.) true and 2.) the right idea for something like this?

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I think the cars that certain countries tend to produce aren't always a reflection of their philosophies, I think it's the way they're made. Keep in mind not all of a company's cars sold in the U.S. represent their whole lineup. For example, most people tend to think that Honda makes such tiny engines that are the best in the world when it comes to fuel efficiency. That might have some truth in it on our shores, but you'd be surprised to see that in Japan and Europe, they also offer even smaller engines. For example, back when the Honda Civics had 1.6-liters, which is small by any standards, when I went to Europe in 2003 I was surprised to see that there were even SMALLER Honda Civic engines. Also, don't expect to see many Tundras anywhere outside of North America. Based on your notion above, you would be saying that all America makes is low-quality, large displacement cars. That is true in the U.S., but as I've mentioned in the past, even Ford makes cars that aren't offered here, despite Ford being an American company. The European Focus is leagues ahead of the American Focus in terms of looks and quality. They also offer twin-turbo V-6 sedans that are actually good looking. Take the Ford in Casino Royale that James Bond drives, for example.

Why? Because the companies are catering to their customer's tastes, and unfortunately, the average American has mediocre taste, plus a lot of Americans go through cars within a few years, which is why a lot of American cars are junk. Ford chooses not to sell their European Focus here because they know that the average American will put up with a mediocre product since it's already common practice for them to just buy a new one within the next few years. Europeans, on the other hand, have better taste, which is why some of the finest automobiles come from their continent. Even the Japanese. Just look at their lifestyle beyond cars... their food, their music, etc. Don't let the Americanized restaurants fool you, if you ever go to Europe (or at least an authentic restaurant), the Europeans make food light years beyond ours. The look of it is so much better, the taste of it is so much more delightful, the aroma of it, everything, versus American food... hamburgers and steaks. Just like driving a Mercedes AMG car versus a Dodge SRT. Same thing with Asian food. You don't get huge plates of all sorts of entrees, but you get small portions that actually fill you up and can be good for you (depending on what kind of food), like sushi. Kind of like their cars... they're only as big as they need to be. No need to plump up.

It seems like Europe's goal as a whole is to show off the quality and elegance of their product. Japan's (and pretty much Asia's) goal is to show off their efficiency and how it can compete with competitors who use different methods. America's goal is to achieve numbers (being the biggest car manufacturers, claiming profit earned, etc.) that tend to not always have much to do with the car. And even in their advertisements, it's all about numbers. For example, if you remember the advertisements for the Corvette C6 when it first came out, it listed the 0-60 mph and quarter-mile time of it versus the same numbers of other cars (like the Porsche 911 and BMW Z4)... all objective. But if you look at the advertisements of those same cars, then tend to be subjective (BMW's "ultimate driving machine" talking about how exciting it is to own and drive, same thing with Porsche).

Don't plagiarize that.

 

[gaylord]

LMAO... i wont.... good points though, i think i might use those points and and my own opinion to them though they are similar t yours....

so basically what i get is that the blame goes to the manufacturer for building the shitty car, but it's the tastes of the country's consumers that end up making the cars shitty because of our habits?

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

so basically what i get is that the blame goes to the manufacturer for building the shitty car, but it's the tastes of the country's consumers that end up making the cars shitty because of our habits?

More or less. Combine that with how outside car manufacturers actually cater their products to the heavier average American. Our Honda Accord is noticeably bigger than the Japanese/European Accord, which is the Acura TSX on our shores. Also, the seats in the U.S.-spec Evo VIIIs and STIs are actually larger so they can fit fatass Americans in them.

 

[gaylord]

aight essay got turned in on thursday... nothing spectacular.... not one of my best pieces of work, but whatever.... the speech though was amazing.... nailed everyone's questions

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Why don't you upload your essay? Tell us about some of the questions and what your answers were.

 

[Duke]

I think the cars that certain countries tend to produce aren't always a reflection of their philosophies, I think it's the way they're made. Keep in mind not all of a company's cars sold in the U.S. represent their whole lineup. For example, most people tend to think that Honda makes such tiny engines that are the best in the world when it comes to fuel efficiency. That might have some truth in it on our shores, but you'd be surprised to see that in Japan and Europe, they also offer even smaller engines. For example, back when the Honda Civics had 1.6-liters, which is small by any standards, when I went to Europe in 2003 I was surprised to see that there were even SMALLER Honda Civic engines. Also, don't expect to see many Tundras anywhere outside of North America. Based on your notion above, you would be saying that all America makes is low-quality, large displacement cars. That is true in the U.S., but as I've mentioned in the past, even Ford makes cars that aren't offered here, despite Ford being an American company. The European Focus is leagues ahead of the American Focus in terms of looks and quality. They also offer twin-turbo V-6 sedans that are actually good looking. Take the Ford in Casino Royale that James Bond drives, for example.

Why? Because the companies are catering to their customer's tastes, and unfortunately, the average American has mediocre taste, plus a lot of Americans go through cars within a few years, which is why a lot of American cars are junk. Ford chooses not to sell their European Focus here because they know that the average American will put up with a mediocre product since it's already common practice for them to just buy a new one within the next few years. Europeans, on the other hand, have better taste, which is why some of the finest automobiles come from their continent. Even the Japanese. Just look at their lifestyle beyond cars... their food, their music, etc. Don't let the Americanized restaurants fool you, if you ever go to Europe (or at least an authentic restaurant), the Europeans make food light years beyond ours. The look of it is so much better, the taste of it is so much more delightful, the aroma of it, everything, versus American food... hamburgers and steaks. Just like driving a Mercedes AMG car versus a Dodge SRT. Same thing with Asian food. You don't get huge plates of all sorts of entrees, but you get small portions that actually fill you up and can be good for you (depending on what kind of food), like sushi. Kind of like their cars... they're only as big as they need to be. No need to plump up.

It seems like Europe's goal as a whole is to show off the quality and elegance of their product. Japan's (and pretty much Asia's) goal is to show off their efficiency and how it can compete with competitors who use different methods. America's goal is to achieve numbers (being the biggest car manufacturers, claiming profit earned, etc.) that tend to not always have much to do with the car. And even in their advertisements, it's all about numbers. For example, if you remember the advertisements for the Corvette C6 when it first came out, it listed the 0-60 mph and quarter-mile time of it versus the same numbers of other cars (like the Porsche 911 and BMW Z4)... all objective. But if you look at the advertisements of those same cars, then tend to be subjective (BMW's "ultimate driving machine" talking about how exciting it is to own and drive, same thing with Porsche).

Don't plagiarize that.

Good drop. :thumb:



A company makes it's car for the customers. Basically, it's what the majority of the buyers want that mostly determines what the company makes. If 70% of the people that buy a Chevy want an engine at least 3.5 litres, regardless of the actual power it makes, Chevy will make sure that they can deliver 3.5 litre engines. If 64% of the BMW customers make it an important point that their car is well balanced and has excellent neutral handling, BMW will make sure their cars are properly set up.

So the way cars are built on the various continents hasn't got as much to do with companies' philosophies about car building, but more with what the market wants. And that is eventually represented by the way cars are built.