Boycott Denmark & Norway

[TecK NeeX]

I don't think there would be much uproar if Muslims made fun of Jesus or Christianity because Christians grew away from that years ago.

Since when did a population of 1.7 billion people vote you in as their spokesman? how can you say "Christians grew out of their faith"? some generalization you got going there.

Not everyone in the western world is Christian, infact I bet those comedians aren't religious at all. Also not everyone in the west are white, comedians come in every colour and size. Your argument is that the west (which you think are all white and christian) are against muslims, which is just dumb

Never said everyone in the west is a Christian or white, Lets remember that Christians themselves draw pictures of Jesus even tho they're not allowed, they have them pics all over their churches. I just believe it would have take someone from another country with a dominant religion other than Christianity inorder to see outrage and condemnation. I am positive would we see riots and protests by christians if a news paper in lets Say Saudi Arabia painted Jesus Christ as a Pedophile having sex with a minor.

Im not pissed enough about the article to start rioting and be-having like an animal ..

why would you? you just said you're not Jewish.. duh!?

its just i wont blow up a bus full of people in the vain hope i meet one hundred virgins there .

Good for you, I just wont invade and bomb a country for the hell of it and kill thousands of civilians while im at it in hopes of going to heaven and meeting 100 white virgins neither.

So what you are saying is the Muslim community acts like 5 year old children and believe 2 wrongs make a right? That'll help with the division with Western Society.

Nope 2 wrongs dont make a right, Im just glad you see the cartoons as a wrong thing to do and that the people behind them are 5 year old children, thats all i wanted to hear, And if Iran did go aead with the cartoons i would condemn them just as much as the Prophet's.

Do you not think that by turning the other cheek and being the bigger man that it would help the division and give Islam a lot more respect. I guess not, because it seems from Muslims that I know, that's all about punishment for perceived crimes, and that no-one should ever get away with these perceived wrongs. It must be a culural thing, same as with a lot of old school Japanese people. I may be generalising, which I hate doing... But it does come across that way.

Yup i agree, but if we did stay quite than thats just bait for more and more people to go ahead and do the same. I think these cartoons should be protested so long as they're peaceful.

 

[TecK NeeX]

Because one is not allowed to portray him period, which just lends more credence to the negative image Islam puts out which gave these illustrators their theme.

Portraying someone does not necessarily be with pictures

A writer of a children's book about Mohammad was looking for an illustrator and every one was afriad to do it, so the newspaper held a contest. They should have made it clear that these were supposed to be positive images for a positive book,

Yes they should have, i doubt we'd see the kind of protests and riots we are seeing today, instead atmost they would've probably received phone calls from islamic leaders urging them to continue on with their book so long as they don't draw him completely and maybe show Mohammed (pbuh) as a shadow figure, Plus i dont see why a non-muslim would want to do a childrens book about the Prophet, smells like bull and made up to me

And when you tell readers that no one wanted to do positive images because they were scared, it naturally brought out the sarcasm in some. And when they got negative images they decided to publish them anyway because they were feeling sarcastic about the whole thing, too.

I dont get this, They were scared shitless to print positive images yet some went ahead and printed extremely offensive ones in hopes of receiving non-violent reactions as opposed to positive images?

 

[Flipmo]

I think what many of you are not understanding is that in the Middle East, Religion is one of the most important things to the population and they don't take it lightly like here in North America where every 3rd person is an Athiest or Agnostic. I find it incredibly wrong for that cartoon to have been drawn. If I actually saw Jesus as a fag drawn, I'd be as pissed. Religion is not something that should be touched.

I wish I still had yesterday's newspaper here. Some Arab wrote in, and they published his letter. It was really good, his arguments were inpecable.

 

[Glockmatic]

Since when did a population of 1.7 billion people vote you in as their spokesman? how can you say "Christians grew out of their faith"? some generalization you got going there.

I never said they grew out of their faith, i said they grew out of the "OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS AGAINST US WE MUST BLOW SHIT UP!" mentality, if they didn't the west wouldn't be where it is now.

Never said everyone in the west is a Christian or white

You said that the shows were made by the SAME RACE and SAME RELIGION

Lets remember that Christians themselves draw pictures of Jesus even tho they're not allowed, they have them pics all over their churches. I just believe it would have take someone from another country with a dominant religion other than Christianity inorder to see outrage and condemnation. I am positive would we see riots and protests by christians if a news paper in lets Say Saudi Arabia painted Jesus Christ as a Pedophile having sex with a minor.

Saudi Arabia would get more flak from Muslims themselves for depicting a Prophet like that. Riots? I don't think so. Protests? Maybe, but I don't think there would be embassies on fire

 

[TecK NeeX]

I never said they grew out of their faith, i said they grew out of the "OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS AGAINST US WE MUST BLOW SHIT UP!" mentality, if they didn't the west wouldn't be where it is now.

Again you are speaking for all christians, there are many hardcore christians roaming around man, ex. Mel gibsons sect, they went as far as denying the holocaust ever existed, what about the hardcore christians that bomb abortion clinics? oh yeah man they do exist!

You said that the shows were made by the SAME RACE and SAME RELIGION

Um no i didn't, I said same race and nationality

Saudi Arabia would get more flak from Muslims themselves for depicting a Prophet like that. Riots? I don't think so. Protests? Maybe, but I don't think there would be embassies on fire

hypotheticaly speaking i meant, where christianity is not connected to Islam at all. and yes i do believe there would be riots, protests and maybe not embassies but im pretty sure many mosques would receive damage etc.

I think what many of you are not understanding is that in the Middle East, Religion is one of the most important things to the population and they don't take it lightly like here in North America where every 3rd person is an Athiest or Agnostic. I find it incredibly wrong for that cartoon to have been drawn. If I actually saw Jesus as a fag drawn, I'd be as pissed. Religion is not something that should be touched.

I wish I still had yesterday's newspaper here. Some Arab wrote in, and they published his letter. It was really good, his arguments were inpecable.

Good post

 

[TecK NeeX]

what do Duke, Jokerman, Minardi, Glockmatic, JamieUK fan, Illuminatile, maybe pittsey and others in this thread all have in common? they're all Atheists. why do i get the feeling that they're hiding behind the freedom of speech excuse when in real they're in support of this because they target a religion? hahaha

 

[Jokerman]

i dont see why a non-muslim would want to do a childrens book about the Prophet, smells like bull and made up to me

You're saying there are no non-Muslims who respect Muslims and want to educate non-Muslim children about the religion, so they can grow up tolerant in a diverse society? Or there are no non-Muslim publishers who commission a book on Mohammad or Islam because they know there's a market out there for it? Of course there are. You can find such books online bookstores easily.

I dont get this, They were scared shitless to print positive images yet some went ahead and printed extremely offensive ones in hopes of receiving non-violent reactions as opposed to positive images?

Let me try to break down what happened because we're not really hearing about it in the media, just about the protests. I had to piece all this out myself.

The Danish author Kare Bluitgen couldn't get an illustrator for his book. Three artists turned him down. I guess word got around and Frants Iver Gundelach, president of the Danish Writers Union, decried this as a threat to free speech. The largest newspaper in Denmark, Jyllands-Posten, responded.

They approached forty artists asking for depictions of Muhammad and received in response twelve cartoons of the Prophet. (So that means these cartoons had no connection to the children's book. It wasn't a contest to see who would illustrate it. That wasn't clear to me before.)

All the newspaper did was ask artists for depictions so they could publish them as a protest against the perceived threat to free speech. And they published what they received.

Apparently, the artists who submitted cartoons didn't care if they insulted Muslims because they felt the threat to free speech was an insult to them. No way did they think there would be worldwide riots and death threats to them. And there wasn't for months. Why this actually blew up is another thread debate (Saudi Arabia... cough.. cough).

So, the newspaper wanted to publish depictions, not necessarily negative ones, of Mohammad to stand up for free speech. And even though they received negative ones, they didn't shy away from publishing them because, to them, that's still a free speech issue. I mean, they're not going to ask for depictions to defend free speech and then not publish what they receive because the pics might offend. That was the whole point in the first place. Any pic would offend, and they weren't standing for it.

 

[arabic187]

Do you not realize that the poster is also a Muslim?

No his not a Muslim. If someone dont know basic knowledge about Islam how can he be a Muslim?

And why show something you believe in with a Saudi Arabia national flag? Makes no sense.

Make no sense to you maybe but to me (a Muslim) it makes pefect sense

Did you even read the article thoroughly? People been creating pictures and cartoons of Mohammad for years. Now all of a sudden people want to be doing something about it now? Some entity has moved the ball of inertia and there is great reason to suspect Saudi Arabia.

If you went throw the thread you would realize that the answer have been posted like a 100 times.

 

[Jokerman]

what do Duke, Jokerman, Minardi, Glockmatic, JamieUK fan, Illuminatile, maybe pittsey and others in this thread all have in common?

They all live in free democratic societies.:thumb:

 

[TecK NeeX]

They all live in free democratic societies.:thumb:

Tell that to the American who got arrested for screaming fuck dick cheney, or cindy sheehan for protesting,

you didn't disagree with what i said tho, i find that shocking, does that mean its true?

 

[TecK NeeX]

You're saying there are no non-Muslims who respect Muslims and want to educate non-Muslim children about the religion, so they can grow up tolerant in a diverse society? Or there are no non-Muslim publishers who commission a book on Mohammad or Islam because they know there's a market out there for it? Of course there are. You can find such books online bookstores easily.

but a childrens book in a christian majority country? find me one done by a non-muslim, I know of many books done by Non-Muslims about the Prophet but most of them fall under the history etc subject

Let me try to break down what happened because we're not really hearing about it in the media, just about the protests. I had to piece all this out myself.

The Danish author Kare Bluitgen couldn't get an illustrator for his book. Three artists turned him down. I guess word got around and Frants Iver Gundelach, president of the Danish Writers Union, decried this as a threat to free speech. The largest newspaper in Denmark, Jyllands-Posten, responded.

They approached forty artists asking for depictions of Muhammad and received in response twelve cartoons of the Prophet. (So that means these cartoons had no connection to the children's book. It wasn't a contest to see who would illustrate it. That wasn't clear to me before.)

All the newspaper did was ask artists for depictions so they could publish them as a protest against the perceived threat to free speech. And they published what they received.

Apparently, the artists who submitted cartoons didn't care if they insulted Muslims because they felt the threat to free speech was an insult to them. No way did they think there would be worldwide riots and death threats to them. And there wasn't for months. Why this actually blew up is another thread debate (Saudi Arabia... cough.. cough).

So, the newspaper wanted to publish depictions, not necessarily negative ones, of Mohammad to stand up for free speech. And even though they received negative ones, they didn't shy away from publishing them because, to them, that's still a free speech issue. I mean, they're not going to ask for depictions to defend free speech and then not publish what they receive because the pics might offend. That was the whole point in the first place. Any pic would offend, and they weren't standing for it.

this is new to me

 

[Jokerman]

this is new to me

I know, it was new to me. I had to piece this together from different sources. You think the protesters know how it all started? Nah.

 

[Valeoz]

No his not a Muslim. If someone dont know basic knowledge about Islam how can he be a Muslim?

Why don't you email him and ask him. And I think only Muslims use PBUH when mentioning their prophets.

 

[Pittsey]

what do Duke, Jokerman, Minardi, Glockmatic, JamieUK fan, Illuminatile, maybe pittsey and others in this thread all have in common? they're all Atheists. why do i get the feeling that they're hiding behind the freedom of speech excuse when in real they're in support of this because they target a religion? hahaha

I am an Atheist. Although I was christened as a kid.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I SAID THE PICTURES WERE WRONG????


Look back in the thread. I've never suppoprted the printing of the pictures, I am not targetting religion. I don't believe in Religion admitedly, I think it is created to divide people and to control people, but that is a whole new subject.

It's just you would rather make people do what you want them to do. On YOUR interpretation of Islam. That isn't the way we work. We don't use a book that has many interpretations to run our lives, we use mordern law. A law which allows a freedom of speech to everybody, no matter how moronic the person. It's given to the idiots who printed the pictures, and we'd even give it to you.

 

[Illuminattile]

what do Duke, Jokerman, Minardi, Glockmatic, JamieUK fan, Illuminatile, maybe pittsey and others in this thread all have in common? they're all Atheists. why do i get the feeling that they're hiding behind the freedom of speech excuse when in real they're in support of this because they target a religion? hahaha

What does everyone else have in common? They're all Muslims. Why do I get the feeling that they're only complaining about this because it targets their religion?

How many threads are there complaining about caricatures of political leaders like Bush or Blair, Arafat or Sharon?

Religious people have the egocentric idea that, because they're so passionate about their religion, nobody is allowed to talk about their beliefs. I hold certain people in very high esteem, perhaps not to the point of worship, but there are people who I see as role models and personal 'leaders'. I might criticise a negative portrayal of them, but I would never try to prohibit people from expressing their views. You mentioned someone being arrested for shouting "FUCK CHENEY", but if you think that person has a right to express his beliefs in such a way, why don't you believe these cartoons have that same right? Because you don't like Dick Cheney and you do like Mohammed. If people weren't allowed to publish caricatures of G.W. you'd be the first to talk about a police state and dictatorship.

I accept that not everyone agrees with me and I don't try to prohibit people from disagreeing with me.

 

[Duke]

You're saying there are no non-Muslims who respect Muslims and want to educate non-Muslim children about the religion, so they can grow up tolerant in a diverse society? Or there are no non-Muslim publishers who commission a book on Mohammad or Islam because they know there's a market out there for it? Of course there are. You can find such books online bookstores easily.


Let me try to break down what happened because we're not really hearing about it in the media, just about the protests. I had to piece all this out myself.

The Danish author Kare Bluitgen couldn't get an illustrator for his book. Three artists turned him down. I guess word got around and Frants Iver Gundelach, president of the Danish Writers Union, decried this as a threat to free speech. The largest newspaper in Denmark, Jyllands-Posten, responded.

They approached forty artists asking for depictions of Muhammad and received in response twelve cartoons of the Prophet. (So that means these cartoons had no connection to the children's book. It wasn't a contest to see who would illustrate it. That wasn't clear to me before.)

All the newspaper did was ask artists for depictions so they could publish them as a protest against the perceived threat to free speech. And they published what they received.

Apparently, the artists who submitted cartoons didn't care if they insulted Muslims because they felt the threat to free speech was an insult to them. No way did they think there would be worldwide riots and death threats to them. And there wasn't for months. Why this actually blew up is another thread debate (Saudi Arabia... cough.. cough).

So, the newspaper wanted to publish depictions, not necessarily negative ones, of Mohammad to stand up for free speech. And even though they received negative ones, they didn't shy away from publishing them because, to them, that's still a free speech issue. I mean, they're not going to ask for depictions to defend free speech and then not publish what they receive because the pics might offend. That was the whole point in the first place. Any pic would offend, and they weren't standing for it.

Aye :thumb:, this was left out in most reports about it. I've said earlier in this thread that when you view the cartoons in conjunction with the article that accompanied it and the history about the guy not being able to find illustrators for his book, it sure helps put things into perspective.

what do Duke, Jokerman, Minardi, Glockmatic, JamieUK fan, Illuminatile, maybe pittsey and others in this thread all have in common? they're all Atheists. why do i get the feeling that they're hiding behind the freedom of speech excuse when in real they're in support of this because they target a religion? hahaha

Seriously, grow up or something

 

[Glockmatic]

actually the person who shouted "Go fuck yourself Mr.Cheney" wasn't arrested, he was cuffed for 20 minutes and let go because he had broken no law

 

[TecK NeeX]

Seriously, grow up or something

Can't believe you and Illuminatile took that very seriously, Obviously i was playing around with the hahaha at the end

 

[TecK NeeX]

What does everyone else have in common? They're all Muslims. Why do I get the feeling that they're only complaining about this because it targets their religion?

Lol No Kidding, I dont expect christians, Jews, sikhs and hindus to jump in and back us up on this subject about the prophet of Islam

How many threads are there complaining about caricatures of political leaders like Bush or Blair, Arafat or Sharon?

the 2 can not be compared, go ahead draw/say what ever you want about any leader of an Islamic/Arab country, I'll probably jump in with yah and poke fun at them

Religious people have the egocentric idea that, because they're so passionate about their religion, nobody is allowed to talk about their beliefs.

what? who said nobody is allowed to talk about our beliefs? lets keep it real shall we? i hate lies, Islam has been discussed a million times here and how many Muslims even said anything remotely similar to "you're not allowed to talk about our beliefs"? Zero

You mentioned someone being arrested for shouting "FUCK CHENEY", but if you think that person has a right to express his beliefs in such a way, why don't you believe these cartoons have that same right? Because you don't like Dick Cheney and you do like Mohammed.

I never said he had the right to say that, I brought that up in reply to jokermans statement about living in a free and democratic society

I hold certain people in very high esteem, perhaps not to the point of worship,

Same here, we dont worship the Prophet if thats what you're trying to say

 

[Illuminattile]

Lol No Kidding, I dont expect christians, Jews, sikhs and hindus to jump in and back us up on this subject about the prophet of Islam

The subject is freedom of expression.

the 2 can not be compared, go ahead draw/say what ever you want about any leader of an Islamic/Arab country, I'll probably jump in with yah and poke fun at them

Why can't they be compared? Because in your eyes, your religious belief is so much more important than any other beliefs or opinions. That's egocentric, which is the point I was making.