Bin Laden offers truce with Americans

[CoolWaterz]

He just wants all the foreigners out of Muslim land.Is that too much to ask?

I guess not, i mean i just want muslims out of america and europe as well. Especially the ones that challenge and threaten the culture and laws of the non muslim countries in which they live which is evident right here on our own forum.
You can have the middle east..Just halt with the global Islamization fervor.

EDIT- i saw your second post. Where you expanded upon the quote i used which could really be interpreted by any person reading as anti-west but i also read what you really meant when u explained yourself better. I was just making a counterpoint to your argument, so ill keep it posted.

 

[PuffnScruff]

Why do you insist on going off-topic and talk about something irrelevant?The Indians in North America have made their choice and gave in, they can't retract it now.

gave in? no, they didnt.

 

[greezi']

Why do you insist on going off-topic and talk about something irrelevant?The Indians in North America have made their choice and gave in, they can't retract it now.

Yeah wouldn't consider genocide 'giving in'.

 

[Khaled]

the US doesn't negotiate with terrorists

that's not true, the US did and still does. just not publically.
there has been many times where the US negociated with terrorists organization under the table.

I think the US will consider this deal very carefully. it's not s easy as you think.
Everybody here is missing an important point: there are 2 seperate factions to deal with: Sunni and Shia.
The US (and Cheney more specifically) are starting to realize that it will be a lot easier for them to deal with the Sunnis, special after the failure of the Shias in Iraq.
Dealing with Sunni muslims will also allow for them to exercise more pressure on Iran.

look at the situation in the middle east as a whole:

Egypt, Jordan and KSA, all sunnis, have excellent relations with the US

in Syria, the US is working with the sunni oposition against the Baathist regime

in Lebanon, the US are closest to the pro american sunnites.

the nuclear issue in Iran isn't really going well.

Ben Laden, sunnite, is offering them a truth.

working with the sunnis in Iraq might allow for the US a smooth exit from Iraq, higher pressure on both Syria and Iran.

 

[jimmyk88]

here's my main question tho: how would crashing planes into buildings make things better? I understand what you're saying but Bin Laden's problem, and he's been saying this since the beginning, is non muslims on muslim land. not americans invading or taking it over, just being there. He would have to know that doing what he did would only cause the US to bring the planes and bombs and soldiers to his land, it only made things much worse

I wasn't talking about crashing planes into buildings.I'm against killing innocent civilians.And when did he say he didnt want non-muslims on Muslim land?All I know is that he was against the US setting up a base a military base in Saudi Arabia, cause of the two holiest cities in Islam.

I guess not, i mean i just want muslims out of america and europe as well. Especially the ones that challenge and threaten the culture and laws of the non muslim countries in which they live which is evident right here on our own forum.
You can have the middle east..Just halt with the global Islamization fervor

I meant foreign soldiers.

You would never fully understand till someone takes over your country.You might accept it and move on with your lives, but Arabs and Muslims dont.I got no problem assuring you that the militants will never stop their attacks if there was one foreign soldier left.

As for greezi and PuffnScruff, are they still fighting who they think had taken their land away from them?

EDIT- i saw your second post. Where you expanded upon the quote i used which could really be interpreted by any person reading as anti-west but i also read what you really meant when u explained yourself better. I was just making a counterpoint to your argument, so ill keep it posted.

I'm not anti-west.I'm an American citizen by birth and I'm a Canadian permenant resident.I also study in the UK.I got nothing against western people or their culture, and I can give two fucks where someone is from, but you can't blame me for siding with Iraq on this one.

 

[yurdady1]

that's not true, the US did and still does. just not publically.
there has been many times where the US negociated with terrorists organization under the table.

I think the US will consider this deal very carefully. it's not s easy as you think.
Everybody here is missing an important point: there are 2 seperate factions to deal with: Sunni and Shia.
The US (and Cheney more specifically) are starting to realize that it will be a lot easier for them to deal with the Sunnis, special after the failure of the Shias in Iraq.
Dealing with Sunni muslims will also allow for them to exercise more pressure on Iran.

look at the situation in the middle east as a whole:

Egypt, Jordan and KSA, all sunnis, have excellent relations with the US

in Syria, the US is working with the sunni oposition against the Baathist regime

in Lebanon, the US are closest to the pro american sunnites.

the nuclear issue in Iran isn't really going well.

Ben Laden, sunnite, is offering them a truth.

working with the sunnis in Iraq might allow for the US a smooth exit from Iraq, higher pressure on both Syria and Iran.

an example please as to how many times and with what terrorist group specifically the U.S. has negotiated with... my belief is that the U.S. has never negociated with any terrorist group, that's the last time i checked, never heard of any negotiations i guess, so enlighten me. And well i totally doubt that bin laden is actually being 4 real when he says he wants to negotiate, that's retarded, if he doesn't have the U.S. to attack who else would he attack. Have you forgotten that stupid declaration of war he wrote..."kill all non-muslims...bla bla bla" well i doubt that he'll step away from that and negotiate...lets be smart, that dude is gonna attack or try to either way, all he said the negotiation thing 4 is so that a lot of Americans feel pissed when he does attack again (if he does) and the gov. will be under attack by it's own people and the terrorist group..

 

[PuffnScruff]

I wasn't talking about crashing planes into buildings.I'm against killing innocent civilians.

I meant foreign soldiers.


As for greezi and PuffnScruff, are they still fighting who they think had taken their land away from them?

in some ways yes they are. they may not be resorting to combat but they are still fighting in a civilized way through politics.

 

[Devious]

I wasn't talking about crashing planes into buildings.I'm against killing innocent civilians.And when did he say he didnt want non-muslims on Muslim land?All I know is that he was against the US setting up a base a military base in Saudi Arabia, cause of the two holiest cities in Islam.

I meant foreign soldiers.


As for greezi and PuffnScruff, are they still fighting who they think had taken their land away from them?

No, they are not fighting, because most of their kind were wiped out in mass genocide. And Bin Laden has said that himself many times. its funny, when he was fighting the russian invasion of Pakistan, he seemed quite happy to have american help and american weapons and training, but as soon as thats over it's death to america. And someone said it earlier, what makes it bin ladens land? it's not his land. you said it has nothing to do with religion its all about land. but if, as you say, it's muslim land, then isn't it about religion? As far as Bin Laden's concerned, non muslims are infidels and we should be put to death

 

[jimmyk88]

in some ways yes they are. they may not be resorting to combat but they are still fighting in a civilized way through politics.

That's good to hear, but they're a minority now.There's very little they can do.

 

[jimmyk88]

No, they are not fighting, because most of their kind were wiped out in mass genocide. And Bin Laden has said that himself many times. its funny, when he was fighting the russian invasion of Pakistan, he seemed quite happy to have american help and american weapons and training, but as soon as thats over it's death to america. And someone said it earlier, what makes it bin ladens land? it's not his land. you said it has nothing to do with religion its all about land. but if, as you say, it's muslim land, then isn't it about religion? As far as Bin Laden's concerned, non muslims are infidels and we should be put to death

Afghanistan is something else.They US gave him their support so he can fight the Soviets.He never turned against them all the sudden.As far as I know, the main reason he turned against the US was their military presence in Saudi Arabia, which, like I said later, is home to Islam's two holiest cities.
Bin Laden just happens to be an invidual with vast wealth and power.He has followers all over the world.He fights for whatever reasons he sees fit.He was against the Soviets controlling Afghanistan, a Muslim country, so he fought against them.
And yes, I said it was all about land, but what I meant is wether your American, Irani, Afghani, etc, and you invaded Iraq, then it doesnt mean the Iraqis will kill the Americans but leave the Iranians and Afganis alone cause they're Muslim.

 

[yurdady1]

Afghanistan is something else.They US gave him their support so he can fight the Soviets.He never turned against them all the sudden.As far as I know, the main reason he turned against the US was their military presence in Saudi Arabia, which, like I said later, is home to Islam's two holiest cities.
Bin Laden just happens to be an invidual with vast wealth and power.He has followers all over the world.He fights for whatever reasons he sees fit.He was against the Soviets controlling Afghanistan, a Muslim country, so he fought against them.
And yes, I said it was all about land, but what I meant is wether your American, Irani, Afghani, etc, and you invaded Iraq, then it doesnt mean the Iraqis will kill the Americans but leave the Iranians and Afganis alone cause they're Muslim.

it wasn't an invasion my friend, it was a "liberation war"... and yes it has to do with religion, bin laden said it himself and even wrote that declaration i told you about, so what you are saying is not very relevant...cuz it is a religious war..Bin Laden is just using the stupid land invading excuse to make his dumb war more legit.

edit: i looked up the name, and i think it's called the fatwah

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim..."

as a matter of fact just go here and read it, it's a war against non-muslims... http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm

 

[Devious]

Afghanistan is something else.They US gave him their support so he can fight the Soviets.He never turned against them all the sudden.As far as I know, the main reason he turned against the US was their military presence in Saudi Arabia, which, like I said later, is home to Islam's two holiest cities.
Bin Laden just happens to be an invidual with vast wealth and power.He has followers all over the world.He fights for whatever reasons he sees fit.He was against the Soviets controlling Afghanistan, a Muslim country, so he fought against them.
And yes, I said it was all about land, but what I meant is wether your American, Irani, Afghani, etc, and you invaded Iraq, then it doesnt mean the Iraqis will kill the Americans but leave the Iranians and Afganis alone cause they're Muslim.

umm, yeah, he pretty much did turn on america after afghanistan. it may have been because the us set up bases in saudi arabia, but that is a moot point. And besides, why is it wrong for the us to set up bases there? i don't see how the us having a base in saudi arabia affects anyone's right to their religion. Once again i say, if america told all the muslims in america to leave or be killed, people would go nuts over it. So what makes it right for muslims to want foreigners off "their land?"

And yes, I said it was all about land, but what I meant is wether your American, Irani, Afghani, etc, and you invaded Iraq,

don't include me in invading iraq, my country never did, i'm canadian, not american

 

[yurdady1]

i don't think he meant specifically you, but the reason why Bin Laden is pissed at America is because they are supporting the Saudi gov. and even if it was because of the base and shit, it would be retarded because every country that allows a base in their country gets paid way more then enough money to make up for the land and every other use the U.S. would have for the base..

 

[Khaled]

an example please as to how many times and with what terrorist group specifically the U.S. has negotiated with... my belief is that the U.S. has never negociated with any terrorist group, that's the last time i checked, never heard of any negotiations i guess, so enlighten me.

The US negociated several times with Hezbollah during the lebanese civil war to retrieve captured spies and agents. I have some records from books (i ll post them later)

And well i totally doubt that bin laden is actually being 4 real when he says he wants to negotiate, that's retarded, if he doesn't have the U.S. to attack who else would he attack. Have you forgotten that stupid declaration of war he wrote..."kill all non-muslims...bla bla bla" well i doubt that he'll step away from that and negotiate...lets be smart, that dude is gonna attack or try to either way, all he said the negotiation thing 4 is so that a lot of Americans feel pissed when he does attack again (if he does) and the gov. will be under attack by it's own people and the terrorist group..

1st, Bin Laden, and Al-Quaeda need to reajust for the new dynamics of the region. they need time to restructure the organization because although Sunni terrorists and Shia terrorists agree in the war against the US, they are also at war with each others, mainly in Iraq.

also, i m not saying he's stepping away from his ideology. Don't worry about who he's going to attach. Al Quaeda bombed hotels in Jordan, performs several operations against Iraqui in Iraq, and also claimed recent rocket launches on Israel from South Lebanon.
As far as him being for real, it's not like the US will withdraw their troupes and rely on his words and hope for the best.

 

[The.Menace]

it wasn't an invasion my friend, it was a "liberation war"

what's the difference again?

 

[two187pac]

Suicide bombers?There's no need, every militant in Iraq has a basement full of weapons, rocket launchers, etc.
Bin Laden hit the nail with that audio tape.It shows us that it's not just Iraqis fighting coalition forces, they are Muslims from all over the Arab World.You can kill them all, but a more powerful, experienced and educated generation will emerge.
If they listen to Bin Laden and accepted his truce, he will leave America alone, same way he did with Spain.He just wants all the foreigners out of Muslim land.Is that too much to ask?

i wouldnt give this guy a roll of toliet paper and you want to comply with the scumbag. good call

 

[Devious]

what's the difference again?

^^^lol

I think the real reason he is offering this truce is so that he can attack america and then say to the american people, don't blame me, blame the government. he's hoping the american people will turn on bush, and in some ways i think he's right on that one. many americans are already against the administration and its so called "war on terror" Like i said before there is wrong on all sides of this war, neither side is right. in my opinion this will never end, it will just go around and around.

 

[yurdady1]

The US negociated several times with Hezbollah during the lebanese civil war to retrieve captured spies and agents. I have some records from books (i ll post them later)





1st, Bin Laden, and Al-Quaeda need to reajust for the new dynamics of the region. they need time to restructure the organization because although Sunni terrorists and Shia terrorists agree in the war against the US, they are also at war with each others, mainly in Iraq.

also, i m not saying he's stepping away from his ideology.

i believe there is a diff. between negotiation for people and negotiation for a plea agreement that says we want no war with you (pretty much we give up and give victory to the terrorists), but i'm not quite sure you quoted me because you pretty much said what i said, or filled in gaps with shit i already know and didn't really go against me in any point...

[/QUOTE] Don't worry about who he's going to attach. Al Quaeda bombed hotels in Jordan, performs several operations against Iraqui in Iraq, and also claimed recent rocket launches on Israel from South Lebanon. [/QUOTE]

have you realized that those attacks didn't get as much attention as the the world trade centers??, just imagine another attack, wow they would really be on top of the world and seem even more invinsible...have you not realized that attacking the best is always a huge morale lifter, look at it in a rap perspective 50 attacking Nas...

feeding off the bigger man always gets you the best results and they gain support by doing that, and if they quit attacking the U.S. and negotiated obviously if the U.S. even negotiated we would include all of our allies bla bla bla, and thus in the end Al qaeda would be no more...Al qaeda will not agree to those terms thus there will continue to be war, so fuck them, and fuck whoever rolls with them :thumb:

edit: oh yeah and to whoever asked that question of "what's the difference", ummm... try www.dictionary.com, look up liberation, and invasion...

 

[Khaled]

i believe there is a diff. between negotiation for people and negotiation for a plea agreement that says we want no war with you (pretty much we give up and give victory to the terrorists), but i'm not quite sure you quoted me because you pretty much said what i said, or filled in gaps with shit i already know and didn't really go against me in any point...

i m saying the us did negociate with terrorist organizations, you said they never did.
so if the US find that they have an interest in making a truce with BinLadin, be sure that they will cut a deal. (don't worry, it's not gonna be a public fact, so u won't know anyway )

have you realized that those attacks didn't get as much attention as the the world trade centers??, just imagine another attack, wow they would really be on top of the world and seem even more invinsible...have you not realized that attacking the best is always a huge morale lifter, look at it in a rap perspective 50 attacking Nas...
feeding off the bigger man always gets you the best results and they gain support by doing that, and if they quit attacking the U.S. and negotiated obviously if the U.S. even negotiated we would include all of our allies bla bla bla, and thus in the end Al qaeda would be no more...Al qaeda will not agree to those terms thus there will continue to be war, so fuck them, and fuck whoever rolls with them :thumb:

again, these negociation are never public...

the attacks did get a lot of attention, (not as much as 9-11 because 9-11 was the biggest terrorist attack ever).
Also, you seem to be under the impression that terrorism is just a way for ppl to makea a name for themselves. War is nat a rap battle man.
Hezbollah, for example, is known for almost never claiming any terrorist operation they do. All these organizations have a political agenda a lot more advanced than "death to america" which is just a slogan like US freedom and democracy. They are not in it for the fame nor to gain support. (how much support did 9-11 give alquaeda??)

 

[yurdady1]

i m saying the us did negociate with terrorist organizations, you said they never did.
so if the US find that they have an interest in making a truce with BinLadin, be sure that they will cut a deal. (don't worry, it's not gonna be a public fact, so u won't know anyway )




again, these negociation are never public...

the attacks did get a lot of attention, (not as much as 9-11 because 9-11 was the biggest terrorist attack ever).
Also, you seem to be under the impression that terrorism is just a way for ppl to makea a name for themselves. War is nat a rap battle man.
Hezbollah, for example, is known for almost never claiming any terrorist operation they do. All these organizations have a political agenda a lot more advanced than "death to america" which is just a slogan like US freedom and democracy. They are not in it for the fame nor to gain support. (how much support did 9-11 give alquaeda??)

911 gave them quite a bit of support, but hey if you keep going under the impression that most of it is not out to the public then ur right, a lot of "shit" has been done, BUT you don't know how much support they got and all the other things they got from it because it wasn't made public...that being said everything you are claiming is in no way backed up...i want to see some hard evidence not some damn conspiracy, or idea you have... oh and plz. tell me their "political agenda" cuz that equals bullshit to me...terrorists, an agenda...lol...funny, maybe the agenda of being fucken kamikaze's and making other people's lives impossible...(non-muslims)