billboards defaced

[not really ken]

You may have meant to say that but, as you can, in no way did you say that.

your clutching at straws here. The 2nd quote

this has got nothing to do with culture or religion

was in reference to you saying "what if I went and vandalised a spiritual centre and or a religous centre". I said that the vandalism of lewd billboards is nothing to do with culture or religion. I.E it is not the defacing of religious or cultural paraphenalia

Yeah, I agree with this but, I did have, & still do, have a problem with your view of British culture which isn't solely to do with my personal opinion of British culture but due to the fact that I know what is acceptable in my country because I live here & I am part of this culture & society whereas you are not & so cannot be expected to know this stuff better than me or any other British resident.

I also Live in UK, your point?

Oh morales over law definetely but the question here is whose morales? While you say that this is a violation of many's morales I dispute that & would say it violates the moral codes of the few & that a sizeable nimber of these 'few' would object due to the influence of foreign culture which, although it is healthy to have widespread influences, cannot override national culture.

The ASA rules state that cause of offence is reason to disapprove a billboard. I dont think that lewd billboards could come under culture of the nation. Violation of the moral codes of a few is enough for a british regulator to abandon the advert as the rules of the regualtor state.
Living in a democray the will of the minority has also to be looked after.

 

[not really ken]

An analogy which, being so exagerrated, I don't find to be applicable in this debate.

the concept of 'analogy' seems to have escaped you.

 

[not really ken]

They have a point, but they're approaching it from a very wrong angle. If they went to the authorities and suggested the removal of the offensive ads, okay.

But right now they're being criminals. Vandals. No matter how you look at it.


If i'm a deeply religious person and i have a strong dislike for, let's say, birch trees. And there are a whole host of birch trees in the area where i live. Is it justified for me to go out and chop all the damn trees? Of course not. Is it justified for 90% of the birch-tree hating community to chop the trees? Of course not.

It's still a democracy. No one has the right to destroy something that is not their property simply because they might find it offensive.

Birch trees don't cause emotional suffering or embarrasment.
But ok I can accpet what your saying

 

[not really ken]

The problem is, if this billboard was depicting two fully clothed men holding hands, some people would still find it offensive and some people would still want to rip it down. In that case, I would object to people defacing it. Why is that different? Some people find nudity offensive, some don't. Some people find homosexuality offensive, some don't. Where do you draw the line?

Hmm, interesting point. Clearly we can agree that a billboard like the YSL one I posted is blatantly offensive to people, not only that but you can argue about the manner in which it is depicting women. Not just the YSL one but a whole stream of billboards. Whether they vandalise it or not is how passionate you feel about the matter.
the homosexual point is a good one. But I suppose that would come down to wheter you accept homosexuality or not.

BTW, is it illegal for two men to hold hands? Or kiss? or get affectionate is what im trying to get at?

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

I also Live in UK, your point?

If this is the case why did you fail to mention this earlier when I asked you & why have you rubbished the British in a way similar to that in which a person mocks a foreign country (like the American do the French). As for 'your point' if you read my posts you will know what that is.

the concept of 'analogy' seems to have escaped you.

How so?

I accept the use of exaggeration in analogies as a means to make a point clearer but I don't accept the use of analogies that are so exagerrated that they become somewhat irrelevant to the initial point.

 

[My_Dyin_Day04]

They have no right to tear them down, its a criminal offense...what if I tore down a sign that was in Arabic and had the Muslim sign on just cos its not part of my culture....I bet Id get worse punishment than they would (yes its a worse offense, also an extreme example) but we must learn to bind our cultures together...who knows next pie n mash may be banned cos its not in there culture.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

They have no right to tear them down, its a criminal offense...what if I tore down a sign that was in Arabic and had the Muslim sign on just cos its not part of my culture....I bet Id get worse punishment than they would (yes its a worse offense, also an extreme example) but we must all to bind our cultures together...who knows next pie n mash may be banned cos its not in there culture.

Agreed.

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

fuck off if you dont like it here.

In england there is to much political correctness , i remember when the euro football finals were on and people were flying the saint georges cross , the goverment wanted to stop this in case it offended any ethnic minoritys , and at xmas they wanted to ban xmas decorations in the streets in case it offended any religions not celebrating xmas - get the fuck outta here , im no rascist but it pisses me off , all these people who are offended fuck off from this counrty if you dont like it . Especially these fascist muslims like that hook guy - living of handouts from are taxes for years and then spitting venom about the british and the usa - are goverment is to soft there is no way he would get away with this in the america. like i said im no racsist but i get so anoyed by it all .

 

[Illuminattile]

BTW, is it illegal for two men to hold hands? Or kiss? or get affectionate is what im trying to get at?

I hope so. Marriage and adoption I can somewhat understand, but prohibiting homosexuals from showing affection is just fascist. I doubt it's illegal.

In this case my opinion is still the same. If you find it offensive go through the proper channels & let your opinion be known, but keep it legal.

Personal opinion is just that - personal. Nobody has to agree or disagree with you & no-one is compelled to act on what you believe, as long as you are courtaeously listened to, that is all you can ask for.

& although British culture may like mocking homosexuality, I don't think Illuminattile's example would have too many people upset. Although groups of discrimination like teh BNP would probably want to rip it down, they have no right to.

Maybe not in Britain, I think we're a more liberal country (thank Jebus), but in (certain parts of) America I'm sure it would cause controversy.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

fascist muslims like that hook guy

Yeah that prick, Abu Hamzu, getting all the benefits he could & spending his time burning flags & shit & spouting venomous propaganda.

I would say he has the right to free speech, but I'm actually pretty sure that he never got British citizenship although as a human being he has the right to his opinion.

It's fucked up though that he can say that shit & yet PC phenomena stops some of the most basic things being said like, 'fireman'.

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

i get so annoyed by it all - there are real people in need of cash in this country - people coming over from bosnia , sudan , sommalia etc get proiority for housing over single parent mums for example , i mean what the fuck is that all about - its like come in have a house , cash - its bollocks . the french are laughing at us , they even transport immagrents to calais to the port so they can get to england and out of there country - not right .

 

[ThaHeartless]

Very effective method. But that's not to say i agree or condone it. If you come to live in a totally different society (british) you have to adapt to the lifestyle. Images of a slight sexual nature are everywhere in the western societies so its not something which will go away by them tearing posters down.
I am not saying muslims dont have a right to speak out against something offensive. e.g. If there were posters directly opposite a mosque or something, I cant blame them for their actions. Also, advertisers should know better, and so should councils if the area in question is contains a population comprising mainly of people of the muslim faith. Very debateable issue but there are other ways to go about it. Vandalism should be the last resort.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Yeah, if I was PM I would shut down immigration immediately & let the world know that anyone attempting to enter the country will be deported if their country will take them back & if not....I don't know, dump them tin he ocean - really.

I'm not saying Britain should never accept immigrants but we need to check our stock here & see how many are in the country, how many we can deport & how many have a legitimate reason to be here etc.

The longer we let ourselves be walked over, the bigger the toll it's going to take on us in the future.

Being from Scotland, I actually see the quickest resolve to the immigration problem here is for us to vote for independence. In this event, myself & other Scots could get our views heard quicker & acted on being that we'd be a population of only around 5 million. As it is there's so many voice in Britain squabblnig for different things that immigration ain't being addressed the way it should. Even though the Tories would have you believe they are the solution

 

[Glockmatic]

man, good thing i'm in canada, you people in Europe sound like dicks to minorities

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

man, good thing i'm in canada, you people in Europe sound like dicks to minorities

what like giving them a house and cash every week - real nasty .

 

[My_Dyin_Day04]

man, good thing i'm in canada, you people in Europe sound like dicks to minorities

lol, nah there is just a big problem in the UK and we (general British people including minorities) dont really know how to solve the problem, so many talk shit, I say let em in but they need to respect our culture and we will then respect theres.

 

[Glockmatic]

no i mean how the PEOPLE think, "Stop immigration they get too much stuff" wah wah wah

 

[Pittsey]

My first post in WOW.

I can see the Muslims point that they find the pictures offensive. But the UK isn't a muslim country. We all have to get along so there is give and take. Where I live there are loads of different races and religions. If I receive a letter through the door it's written in at least 8 different languages, it's beyond a Joke. I'm all for getting on with people from different cultures, I love learning new things, trying new foods, etc. But if I was to move to a muslim country I'd learn the language and wear the clothes so not to offend.
Plus I like scantily clad girls.


Also is it true there are no temples or mosques in US.
Because there's 8 in my hometown, which means that there is a lot of love to other religions, doesn't it.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

no i mean how the PEOPLE think, "Stop immigration they get too much stuff" wah wah wah

I actually think Canada's got it right. Am I right in saying that foreigners are only allowed to stay in Canada if they've got a job organised?

Anyway, when people are going hungry, homeless, there's a lack of doctors, teachers & crimes are happening day & night, I happen to feel that we don't need any more people to look after at this moment in tme.

 

[Illuminattile]

no i mean how the PEOPLE think, "Stop immigration they get too much stuff" wah wah wah

Well they come into our country, steal our jobs, rape our women, pillage our towns and set fire to our longboats. How are we supposed to react?