Technology Android

[dilla]

Usually the main developer phone is the one that shares the most similarities with other phones on the market (mainy processor and screen resolution).
G1 had the same qualcomm processor that most phones from that era had so apps were optimized to them. Then N1 shared the same 1ghz qualcomm that most phones were supposed to have. The Hummingbird came kind of unexpected with A8 but still it was fairly similar.

On the other hand now it seems that there's a much bigger variety. But for some reason I can't see the G2 being anywhere as popular as N1 and G1 were. Not because it's a bad phone but because it doesn't stand out in any way and doesn't seem anywhere as appealing as those previous Android flagships have.
It doesn't really bring anything new or better. Just average.
Technically it's struggling to be on par with previous high-end Smartphones with Hummingbird while other features are not that interesting imo and there are much more powerfull phones coming soon (probably with a much more interesting feature set).

Are you saying you think it won't be the G2 or that it should not be the G2? What other phone would you suggest? I figured it would still need to be a phone with a Snapdragon processor since the phones that will need to run 3.0 will need to have a 1.0 Ghz CPU and then the 3.8 or .7 screen and then the 512 RAM. I think the G2 would be the minimum for that and would encompass the specs of the phones that are due out from here on out.

 

[THEV1LL4N]

Facebook smartphone?

Facebook working on smartphone - AfterDawn

 

[masta247]

Are you saying you think it won't be the G2 or that it should not be the G2? What other phone would you suggest? I figured it would still need to be a phone with a Snapdragon processor since the phones that will need to run 3.0 will need to have a 1.0 Ghz CPU and then the 3.8 or .7 screen and then the 512 RAM. I think the G2 would be the minimum for that and would encompass the specs of the phones that are due out from here on out.

But there are better 1ghz processors than the Snapdragon - Samsung's Hummingbird for example or upcoming Samsung processors that are said to be a few times more efficient. I know that there are more phones made on Snapdragon than on Hummingbird but in total those that are made on Hummingbird sell better. For example the Galaxy S alone sold better than Desire and way better than the Nexus One - I don't have any stats but considering Galaxy S' sales I assume that 2 major hummingbird devices - the Galaxy S and Wave sold better than all Snapdragon devices put together which alone is a good enough factor. Not to mention efficiency which is higher than Snapdragon's.
I doubt that the Galaxy S could be the next main developer phone since it's here for a few months already it'd be hard to pick a different one.
I don't think that the G2 shouldn't be a new developer phone for any specific reason.
I just think that I wouldn't be so sure that it will.
The G2 doesn't stand out in any way and technically is barely trying to be on par with high ends from a few months ago. However I don't see better upcoming candidates - mostly because I don't see many new announced phones - I guess we would have to wait till late 2010/early 2011.

Personally I think that Android isn't as unified as it was when G1 or Nexus one came out.
There are phones from totally different price ranges, that use totally different CPUs with different architectures and various display resolutions. While Google might pick a specific phone and work with it I think that most developers will just use various Android phones as they please without any optimizations made for a specific one - because that would be pointless right now.

 

[dilla]

But there are better 1ghz processors than the Snapdragon - Samsung's Hummingbird for example or upcoming Samsung processors that are said to be a few times more efficient. I know that there are more phones made on Snapdragon than on Hummingbird but in total those that are made on Hummingbird sell better. For example the Galaxy S alone sold better than Desire and way better than the Nexus One - I don't have any stats but considering Galaxy S' sales I assume that 2 major hummingbird devices - the Galaxy S and Wave sold better than all Snapdragon devices put together which alone is a good enough factor. Not to mention efficiency which is higher than Snapdragon's.
I doubt that the Galaxy S could be the next main developer phone since it's here for a few months already it'd be hard to pick a different one.
I don't think that the G2 shouldn't be a new developer phone for any specific reason.
I just think that I wouldn't be so sure that it will.
The G2 doesn't stand out in any way and technically is barely trying to be on par with high ends from a few months ago. However I don't see better upcoming candidates - mostly because I don't see many new announced phones - I guess we would have to wait till late 2010/early 2011.

Personally I think that Android isn't as unified as it was when G1 or Nexus one came out.
There are phones from totally different price ranges, that use totally different CPUs with different architectures and various display resolutions. While Google might pick a specific phone and work with it I think that most developers will just use various Android phones as they please without any optimizations made for a specific one - because that would be pointless right now.

I see. How does the Hummingbird compare to the Droid X's OMAP..whateverthenumberis?

Also, do you not feel this rapid expansion of all these different spec phones may end up hurting someone in the long-run, either Google, carriers, manufacturers, or all three? It seems like utter chaos. It could weed the shit phones out leaving the best of the best to rise to the top or it just could just turn even more chaotic.

More people trying to enter the phone market. Facebook was shot down, but still: Is Facebook working on a phone? (update: No.) -- Engadget

How does this not leave Android vulnerable, all these different devices? Could this not be the cause of so many bugs in phones? It seems every Android phone has had some major bug when the phone was released and isn't always completely fixed more so than it is just patched and less annoying. 3G issues, screen issues, shortages, etc. Not all have to do with Android directly, but some are a result of such a diverse pool of phones and parts needed to build them.

 

[S O F I]

Cannibalization is going to become a big issue for all players involved when it comes to Android phones. Consumers win though, so it's not a big deal for us. I do feel that the proliferation of Android phones will lead to very good and very bad phones using the Android platform, and as the result, dilute the Android brand.

 

[masta247]

I see. How does the Hummingbird compare to the Droid X's OMAP..whateverthenumberis?

Also, do you not feel this rapid expansion of all these different spec phones may end up hurting someone in the long-run, either Google, carriers, manufacturers, or all three? It seems like utter chaos. It could weed the shit phones out leaving the best of the best to rise to the top or it just could just turn even more chaotic.

More people trying to enter the phone market. Facebook was shot down, but still: Is Facebook working on a phone? (update: No.) -- Engadget

How does this not leave Android vulnerable, all these different devices? Could this not be the cause of so many bugs in phones? It seems every Android phone has had some major bug when the phone was released and isn't always completely fixed more so than it is just patched and less annoying. 3G issues, screen issues, shortages, etc. Not all have to do with Android directly, but some are a result of such a diverse pool of phones and parts needed to build them.

Well, the good thing is that we're not getting 1 system for all of these phones. It's not like with Windows or other Desktop systems.
Phone manufacturers take the Android code and are responsible for optimizing Android for their phones before releasing them. That's good (there are some bad things to it though like branded UIs).
However it makes every Android-running phone optimized to the OS that it's running and launching apps the best way it could. Of course some apps are also optimized for different CPUs which means that a specific app might work better on a slower device because it was optimized for it in the first place. However on Android market there are usually various versions of most popular apps. And even those that are optimized for a specific device still will run on a different one, just not as good as they could but to be fair that difference is usually fairly small.
Android market is smart like that because it automatically filters apps based on your location, CPU model and screen resolution. Those that wouldn't work simply won't be displayed there.
The biggest barrier is usually the screen resolution because some apps don't run in some resolutions at all.
That's why manufacturers releasing low-ends with resolutions like 400x240 are retarded.

Either Android unifies or (most probably) splits into like 2 or 3 versions so most phones in each would have to fit a specific criteria of "similarity". Phone manufacturers should use similar (at least architecture-wise) CPUs and screen resolutions. However even if that doesn't happen still it won't be that terrible.
For example your PC programs will work regardless of the CPU that you would decide to use. But for example some games are better with Intel CPUs while other are better with AMD CPUs. On one hand competition is always good but on the other hand it would be better if it was all unified like with console games - you can run games much better on a gaming console (even though it's usually technically inferior) because games were written for it in the first place. Same thing with Iphones - all previous Iphones were technically extremely shitty with CPUs running at 300-400mhz but they handled everything quite well. That was thanks to Objective C and optimization. Right now there are like 4 or 5 different Iphones, different iOS versions so that point is lost for them. That's also one of the reasons why the Iphone 4 had to be technically much better.

Well, if it comes to Hummingbird vs Omap then Hummingbird is much more efficient overall but I can't exactly see how much. Here's an overall benchmark:
High-end Android phones benchmarked with Quadrant – Android and Me
It doesn't test the CPU per se. It tests the whole platform - the CPU, memory and GPU. But in mobile phones it's usually all integrated into one thing.
On a side note I'd love to see the Galaxy S with that fast 2.2 Rom

 

[dilla]

Cannibalization is going to become a big issue for all players involved when it comes to Android phones. Consumers win though, so it's not a big deal for us. I do feel that the proliferation of Android phones will lead to very good and very bad phones using the Android platform, and as the result, dilute the Android brand.

Dilution. That's what I said earlier, that Android would fall back with the rest of the pack of other mobile OSs. It's inevitable that Android will be brought down by someone in the future. The thing is, this seems to be the beginning and something that all the current OSs are guilty of. So many iPhone users feel shafted with their first-gen iPhones, they may make the switch to Android. Then they realize there's a billion phones here too, which one? They get it and then the carrier bones them by not releasing an update, forcing them to upgrade to a new phone (the Erish, the Behold, etc.).

Well, the good thing is that we're not getting 1 system for all of these phones. It's not like with Windows or other Desktop systems.
Phone manufacturers take the Android code and are responsible for optimizing Android for their phones before releasing them. That's good (there are some bad things to it though like branded UIs).
However it makes every Android-running phone optimized to the OS that it's running and launching apps the best way it could. Of course some apps are also optimized for different CPUs which means that a specific app might work better on a slower device because it was optimized for it in the first place. However on Android market there are usually various versions of most popular apps. And even those that are optimized for a specific device still will run on a different one, just not as good as they could but to be fair that difference is usually fairly small.
Android market is smart like that because it automatically filters apps based on your location, CPU model and screen resolution. Those that wouldn't work simply won't be displayed there.
The biggest barrier is usually the screen resolution because some apps don't run in some resolutions at all.
That's why manufacturers releasing low-ends with resolutions like 400x240 are retarded.

Either Android unifies or (most probably) splits into like 2 or 3 versions so most phones in each would have to fit a specific criteria of "similarity". Phone manufacturers should use similar (at least architecture-wise) CPUs and screen resolutions. However even if that doesn't happen still it won't be that terrible.
For example your PC programs will work regardless of the CPU that you would decide to use. But for example some games are better with Intel CPUs while other are better with AMD CPUs. On one hand competition is always good but on the other hand it would be better if it was all unified like with console games - you can run games much better on a gaming console (even though it's usually technically inferior) because games were written for it in the first place. Same thing with Iphones - all previous Iphones were technically extremely shitty with CPUs running at 300-400mhz but they handled everything quite well. That was thanks to Objective C and optimization. Right now there are like 4 or 5 different Iphones, different iOS versions so that point is lost for them. That's also one of the reasons why the Iphone 4 had to be technically much better.

Well, if it comes to Hummingbird vs Omap then Hummingbird is much more efficient overall but I can't exactly see how much. Here's an overall benchmark:
High-end Android phones benchmarked with Quadrant – Android and Me
It doesn't test the CPU per se. It tests the whole platform - the CPU, memory and GPU. But in mobile phones it's usually all integrated into one thing.
On a side note I'd love to see the Galaxy S with that fast 2.2 Rom

Yeah, but is that a Galaxy S phone vs. the Droid X? It seems a bit dated, the benchmark test.

 

[Casey]

the phones that will need to run 3.0 will need to have a 1.0 Ghz CPU and then the 3.8 or .7 screen and then the 512 RAM.

This was a rumor, and has been shot down already. Simply not true at all.

Also, for the record, the Scorpion processor in the G2 is better than the 1GhZ Snapdragons due to the architecture and the GPU. We already discussed this.

What you guys have to remember is that the Android Developer Phones will ALWAYS be phones running stock Android.

Google actually has very little to do with Android phones that have garbage custom UI's like TouchWiz. They have almost no involvement with them.

This is the difference that many people seem unable to grasp when it comes to Android and criticizing it. Understand the difference between "Google Experience" devices like the G1, N1, Droid1, G2, and all other Android devices that Google don't have a direct involvement with.

Whether other manufacturers are selling well with their devices is beside the point. They are still second-tier Android phones and are liable to slow updates, carrier bloatware, and removed features.

With top-tier devices, Google gets the final say. No carrier bloatware, no skins, no removed features, quick updates.

 

[Casey]

HTC Lexikon Looks to Be Next Verizon Droid | Android Phone Fans

When we first heard of the HTC Lexikon all we had to go off of was the name, but now a render of the device is suggesting not only will it go to Verizon but it looks to feature the Droid branding judging by some well-placed red accents. The specs match up well with the recent Verizon/HTC slider that passed through the FCC, though the front of the device does differ slightly. We’ll chalk that up to changes made along the path to a final design, but the stars line up too perfectly for these two phones to be separate devices.

The device features a 3.8-inch screen at WVGA resolution, 512MB RAM, and an 800MHz processor (no doubt the same featured in the new T-Mobile G2/Desire Z). Android 2.2 is on board and we will assume the new version of HTC Sense as well. A leaked RUU file of the devices Froyo ROM is available so all should become clear about the Lexikon’s software shortly.
It’s like the Droid Incredible and the Droid 2 had a baby, and it came out looking like a more bad-ass Desire Z. I think I’d take that any day. How about you? But let’s not forget about this supposed Verizon bad boy too…

 

[Casey]

HTC also goes with Tegra 2 for upcoming Android tablet? – Android and Me

Desire HD Landing in Australia on Vodafone and 3 | Android Phone Fans

New Samsung Galaxy Tab Promo Hits YouTube | Android Phone Fans

Rumored Specs for HTC Tablet Emerge, Tegra 2 Inside | Android Phone Fans

Facebook Phone to Use Android?)

 

[masta247]

@Casey
I was almost sure that G2 comes with the Sense UI, doesn't it? At least the European version will surely have one:

While the phones are appealing devices, they're nothing revolutionary and it's the updates to the Sense UI and the new portal service that should get most of the attention, Canalys mobile industry analyst Tim Shepherd told TechNewsWorld.

After all, it's the Sense UI that has elevated HTC -- formerly a relatively small and obscure Taiwanese device manufacturer -- into a force to be reckoned with among handset makers.

"Frankly, it's the vendor who's been able to enhance and adjust the standard Android experience the most and arguably the best, and as a result, it's a vendor with good differentiation from it's competitors," he said.

The Sense UI changes add onboard image-editing and effects enhancements. New mapping capabilities in HTC Locations will allow for what HTC calls "instant on-demand mapping without download delays."

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/...n-New-Desire-Phones-70829.html?wlc=1285010205

I'm not really following news on HTC phones but Desire Z = European name for G2, no?

 

[dilla]

Well, if the Droid 1 is a Google Experience phone and does not have bloatware and features removed...well, it does. VZW has its bloatware and did not give it Wireless Tether with Froyo.

The Lexicon, WVGA? Why? Is it supposed to be shittier that the DInc despite coming out over six months after it? Seems like it has the 800 Mhz Snapdragon (which you said is faster than the 1 Ghz) but the screen seems to be shitty. No SLCD like the DInc now?

Also, I came across this Samsung Galaxy Tab promo video hits the web « Boy Genius Report)

I realized in to the video that it was Samsung's responsibility to convince me that I need a tablet and also that it has to be their tablet. Didn't feel it at all. They showed a student in the library with one. I couldn't do it if I was studying. If I was fucking around, sure, a tablet would be great for browsing and gaming. But I don't see myself sitting at a table with a tablet on the table and reading something.

Tablets and Kindles, they're both catch-22s with me.

 

[ARon]

From what I've read the G2 will be vanilla and the Euro version will have Sense UI. But they could both have the Sense UI, do I care? Not really, I'll mess around with either for a little bit then flash a Cyan rom.


Yeah I really see no use for a tablet so there is no way I'd buy one. Anything I can do on it I'm capable of doing on my phone, and if I can't do it on my phone then I'd most likely want to use a desktop or laptop, not a tablet

 

[Casey]

Masta - yeah, Sense UI in Europe. The demo unit I tested at the HTC party had Sense.

But the ADP phones all ship from the US, anyway. And in the US, it's Stock.

Here is a video of the insanely quick boot time I was telling you guys about before:

Smacky, the Droid 1 did not come with native tethering with the FroYo update because IT DOESN'T SUPPORT IT. the FroYo tethering method requires specific hardware minimums which the Droid doesn't have. Rooted tethering methods implement a different, software method. It's that simple.

 

[masta247]

Ah okay. It's strange that they decided to use Stock Android only in the US. Personally now I'm also not a fan of custom UIs. I really like stock Android on my phone and how you can customize it.

The boot time is that fast thanks to HTC Fast Boot technology. It works sort of like the "hibernate" function in PCs. It probably drains a tiny amount of energy while being off to preserve things in its memory.
I see comments that claim it's back to "normal" (long) if you take your battery off or turn your phone back on after a longer period of time.
So it's nothing new - a function that was present in all Winmo palmtops or PSP. I thought that it wasn't being used in smartphones because a turned off phone would discharge your battery within a week or two.

 

[THEV1LL4N]

oh masta, which reminds me. if i leave my camera battery inside the camera for long periods (weeks-months) without using it, i.e. just leave it there until i use it next, will the li-ion battery fluid leak out/corrode?

 

[dilla]

Verizon Denies Tethering, Hot Spot Features to Droid Customers | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

There are many reasons skeptics have for the decision.

 

[Casey]

/\ Those people are wrong.

I have seen the code with my own eyes. It's all in the AOSP. Native tethering in FroYo requires higher spec hardware.

 

[masta247]

oh masta, which reminds me. if i leave my camera battery inside the camera for long periods (weeks-months) without using it, i.e. just leave it there until i use it next, will the li-ion battery fluid leak out/corrode?

No, they won't. Li-ion batteries are safe. Li-ion batteries are more keen to explode than leak. But it rarely happens and it does only when overcharged - for example if charged by an old school charger
They are more sensitive like that. Happened with Dell laptops for example.

 

[dilla]

Hmmm.. Rumor Has Chrome OS Succeeding Android On Tablet Devices)