This is an article taken from DaveyD.com. I found some of the stuff interesting and I hope you do too.
Somethings to Ponder: What Makes a Dope Emcee? Who is the Greatest Emcee of All-time?
by Davey D
One of the most enduring debates in Hip Hop centers on the following questions; ‘Who is the greatest emcee of all-time?’ and ‘What makes a great emcee?’ With Hip Hop being over 30 years old, answering these questions is much like trying to figure out ‘Who is the greatest boxer’?
In order to debate one has to take into account various periods in time and whether or not that artist was innovative and had the most impact for his era. In other words is it really fair to weigh the body of work KRS-One has amassed over a 20 year career and compare that to Eminem who has been around half as long or to a relative new comer like Jae Millz We have to take into account various styles. Can we measure the skillz of some one who is a die hard battle rapper in the same light as someone who makes great songs? Do we have to look at who does best writtens versus who comes off the dome and does any of that matter if a particular artists ‘moves the crowd’?
In having this discussion how do we weigh brilliant crews versus individuals? For example, as individuals the members of Wu-Tang can be gotten in a battle. Yes, I like Meth. I feel Raekwon. Ghostface is nice. But let's be real, they ain't winning no battle against KRS, Juice or even Eminem. Ok ok, I'll give GZA his due, that man is nice and can snatch a few heads. But really we all know that as individuals thay can be gotten by more then a few.
However as a crew, nobody can mess with the Killa Bees of rap. Them guys have a chemistry and vibe that can not be touched. So how do we measure Wu as a group versus Wu members as individuals?And I will admit I'm sure groups like Living Legends, Rhymesayers, Hiero, Project Blowed and Jurassic 5 to name a few might beg to differ with my high prioase of Wu compared to what they bring to the table
The other thing we have to consider is can you weigh story telling rappers up against those who have stinging punchlines or those who can flip words? In this case, is it possible to compare the brilliance of Slick Rick and the song ‘Children’s Story’, Ice Cube’s ‘Once Upon a Time in the Projects’ or Dana Dana’s equally impressive ‘Cinderfella’ and have that go up against battle tested emcees like Chino XL, Canibus, or Juice out of Chicago?
Is it fair to have these debates and not take into account particular styles? Can we honestly weigh Rakim’s smoothed out flow that forever changed Hip Hop, up against Twista’s rapid fire speed knot raps? Does it make a difference that Rakim will spend months penning a rap which he works to perfection while Twista will take a complex topic, rap it at speeds most of us can only dream of reaching, while reading what he wrote from a 2way that he scrolls through while recording a song?
Even when we talk about artists coming ‘off the dome’ [Freestyling/rapping off the head], how does one compare the incredible ways artists like Supernatural and Juice execute their craft to guys like Jay-Z who doesn’t write anything down and goes to the studio and spits incredible rhymes?
I recently caught up with Chicago based Juice here in Los Angeles when he was doing an in store appearance at a record store called the Basement. We chopped it up for a bit and I asked him about his freestyling capabilities. One of the things he said was that when he flows he feels obligated to make his rhymes relatable so that the audience can actually see and hear that he’s coming off the dome. He has a difficult time convincing people that he did not use prewritten his rhymes and that ideally he would be rhymes that would be on another level and considered intangible.
He was also pretty upfront when he remarked that he’s the best emcee out there especially when it comes to flowing off the head.
It’s not hard to argue with Juice. He’s definitely earned his stripes over the years, but I could not help weighing his remarks against those of Memphis Bleek who I ran into a few days prior to seeing Juice. Bleek told me that Jay gets accused of writing his rhymes down and that many have levied the charge about him going into a studio and just spitting rhymes is a made up gimmick.
Bleek was pretty earnest when he noted that the entire Roc-A-Fella family has been taught by Jay to not write but to go into the studio and spit from the heart about things they feel is real and important. Bleek noted that if they started writing they would be tempted to start making up stuff and that Jay is the real deal when he gets in the studio.
Now I’ve seen and heard Juice rip cats to shreds in battles and I’ve flip some incredible lyrics over the years. Like Jay it’s hard not to think he wrote stuff down and memorized it… and to be honest, it really shouldn’t matter because Juice is dope-hands down. With that being said, when I listen to songs off Reasonable Doubt or the Dynasty album, knowing that Jigga walked into the studio and just spit, it’s kind of hard to simply say Juice is the best. Jay-Z just might be the holder of the crown.
Now keep in mind that’s just one side to things. Let’s talk about emcees who can move the crowd and who have had earth shaking impact. We all know that Rakim shook things up with his flow backed by his Nation of Gods and Earths, Islamic influenced lyrics. R is indeed the 18th letter and the emcee God. He definitely moved the crowd.
But do we automatically give Rakim the crown when we have emcees like KRS and Chuck D in the wings. Haven’t both these gentlemen moved the crowd and changed the game? Does Rakim really have a tighter flow then KRS? Let’s say you think he does, doesn’t KRS get extra points for being an incredible performer?
Has Chuck D not been one of the biggest influences in Hip Hop ever? I recall that back in their hey day, PE was the most covered and most quoted Hip Hop group ever. Some may argue that Chuck’s flow pales compared to Rakim, but Chuck has moved the masses in ways that I think out weighs Rakim. Moving that aside listen to Chuck when he flows on songs like ‘Welcome to the Terrordome’, Fight the Power’ or ‘Night of the Living Bassheads’. Can he honestly say that it doesn’t measure up to Rakim’s ‘Follow the Leader’, ‘Casualties of War’, or Don’t Sweat the Technique’?
Let’s add KRS to the picture. Can we honestly compare ‘My Philosophy’, ‘Still Number One’ or ‘Sound of the Police’ to Rakim’s ‘Know the Ledge’ or ‘I know You Got Soul’. I seen both perform these songs at concerts and it was hard to tell who garnered bigger response. Both records move me, but in different ways. So how do we compare those great emcees?
Moving on, where do we place brilliant wordsmiths like Kool G Rap who has incredible flow, but was one of the best story tellers Hip Hop has ever seen? Where do put cats that can really flip lyrics like Big Daddy Kane or Masta Ace. Not only are both dope emcees but they are also some of the best writers Hip Hop has seen.
This debate about who is the greatest emcee and why can go on forever. What makes this so mind numbing is that I haven’t even factored in artists like 2Pac who was an incredible writer and Notorious BIG who like Jay also did not write down his material. Do they measure up or even surpass the KRS’s and Rakims of the world, both in their ability to move the crowd, their respective flows and overall impact?
I caught up with Mele-Mel the other week and posed this question to him. For those who don’t know Mele-Mel of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five was cited by Kool Moe Dee in his book ‘A God on the Mic’ as the best emcee ever and for good reason. First, Mele-Mel opened the door for message raps. Second, he had incredible presence and changed the game with his booming baritone voice. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly all modern day emcees owe the straight ahead 4 count, street oriented cadence to Mele-Mel.
Prior to him first hitting the scene back in ’76, ’77 most emcees who got on the mic tried to sound like a puking radio deejay. That style might range from the way artists like Kurtis Blow, Big Bank Hank of Sugar Hill Gang or DJ Hollywood would sound. In fact some who go back to those early days of Hip Hop would call that rhyme flow ‘disco style’ because it was most associated with guys like Lovebug Starski, Eddie Cheeba and DJ Hollywood who ran in different circles then pioneers like Bam, Flash and Mele-Mel. The aforementioned cats cut their teeth in swanky night clubs where they served as hype men and used the simple rhymes to keep the party moving.
In talking with DJ Hollywood, he explained that his objective was to make himself sound like he was part of the record. He wanted to keep the party popping and his raps were basically added toppings to an already successful formula. In fact what Hollywood and others were doing was the beginning of a style we call ‘party rocking’ which was later perfected by guys like Busy Bee and taken to its highest levels by artists like Doug E Fresh. Today artists like Lil Jon best personify that style. Prior to Lil Jon Luke of the 2 Live Crew was the man for this style.
Here having incredible rhymes was not the name of the game. It was your ability to move the crowd and in many ways be in the true spirit of what an emcee (Master of Ceremonies) was all about. How can you compare party rockers with battle rappers or brilliant story tellers? Lets be honest depending on the crowd and what sort of vibe is in the room, Lil Jon will ‘move the crowd more then a Rakim. Does that mean Lil Jon is the greatest emcee? Does Rakim lose his stripes if he steps in a club somewhere in the dirty south and tries to rock the house after folks been listening to Crunk all night?
With Mele-Mel, he wanted to set himself apart form what these older disco deejays were doing, so he played around with his rhyme style and came up with a flow that is a basic foundation for Hip Hop today.
Mele-Mel also explained what he feels makes a dope emcee. He said it’s the entire package. That would include recordings, performance, battles etc. To him an emcee must be well rounded and skilled in all aspects. If one is not he’s just a specialist, but that’s not enough to earn you a crown. Mele also spoke about the importance of longetivity. Time is the true measure of greatness.
Another thing that Mel spoke on was the importance of writing and delivery. He noted that he can come off the dome like anyone today, but when you got out on stage you needed to rock the house and bring your best stuff. If that means writing and rehearsing, so be it. It’s the mark of a good craftsman and if done with sincerity and a desire to really move the crowd, one will put in the extra time and work to reach they peak.
Talent is one thing, but true skillz are developed as you train and perfect your talent...
Much of what Mele-Mel has mentioned has been reiterated by fellow pioneer Grandmaster Caz who like Mel has always written and perfected his rhymes. A brilliant story teller, Caz raised the level of skill sets needed by emcees cause he would rip rhymes using the fast paced straight ahead cadence established by Mel, but also cut and scratch records while doing it.. For those who think this is easy, keep in Mind Caz, was doing this before there were fancy mixers with special scratch buttons and fancy Technique 1200 turntables. To see what Caz worked with gives you much deeper appreciation for his emcee skillz.
So what makes a dope emcee and who is the greatest? We'll continue this discussion next column.. In the meantime hit me with your thoughts and feedback?
Somethings to Ponder: What Makes a Dope Emcee? Who is the Greatest Emcee of All-time?
by Davey D
One of the most enduring debates in Hip Hop centers on the following questions; ‘Who is the greatest emcee of all-time?’ and ‘What makes a great emcee?’ With Hip Hop being over 30 years old, answering these questions is much like trying to figure out ‘Who is the greatest boxer’?
In order to debate one has to take into account various periods in time and whether or not that artist was innovative and had the most impact for his era. In other words is it really fair to weigh the body of work KRS-One has amassed over a 20 year career and compare that to Eminem who has been around half as long or to a relative new comer like Jae Millz We have to take into account various styles. Can we measure the skillz of some one who is a die hard battle rapper in the same light as someone who makes great songs? Do we have to look at who does best writtens versus who comes off the dome and does any of that matter if a particular artists ‘moves the crowd’?
In having this discussion how do we weigh brilliant crews versus individuals? For example, as individuals the members of Wu-Tang can be gotten in a battle. Yes, I like Meth. I feel Raekwon. Ghostface is nice. But let's be real, they ain't winning no battle against KRS, Juice or even Eminem. Ok ok, I'll give GZA his due, that man is nice and can snatch a few heads. But really we all know that as individuals thay can be gotten by more then a few.
However as a crew, nobody can mess with the Killa Bees of rap. Them guys have a chemistry and vibe that can not be touched. So how do we measure Wu as a group versus Wu members as individuals?And I will admit I'm sure groups like Living Legends, Rhymesayers, Hiero, Project Blowed and Jurassic 5 to name a few might beg to differ with my high prioase of Wu compared to what they bring to the table
The other thing we have to consider is can you weigh story telling rappers up against those who have stinging punchlines or those who can flip words? In this case, is it possible to compare the brilliance of Slick Rick and the song ‘Children’s Story’, Ice Cube’s ‘Once Upon a Time in the Projects’ or Dana Dana’s equally impressive ‘Cinderfella’ and have that go up against battle tested emcees like Chino XL, Canibus, or Juice out of Chicago?
Is it fair to have these debates and not take into account particular styles? Can we honestly weigh Rakim’s smoothed out flow that forever changed Hip Hop, up against Twista’s rapid fire speed knot raps? Does it make a difference that Rakim will spend months penning a rap which he works to perfection while Twista will take a complex topic, rap it at speeds most of us can only dream of reaching, while reading what he wrote from a 2way that he scrolls through while recording a song?
Even when we talk about artists coming ‘off the dome’ [Freestyling/rapping off the head], how does one compare the incredible ways artists like Supernatural and Juice execute their craft to guys like Jay-Z who doesn’t write anything down and goes to the studio and spits incredible rhymes?
I recently caught up with Chicago based Juice here in Los Angeles when he was doing an in store appearance at a record store called the Basement. We chopped it up for a bit and I asked him about his freestyling capabilities. One of the things he said was that when he flows he feels obligated to make his rhymes relatable so that the audience can actually see and hear that he’s coming off the dome. He has a difficult time convincing people that he did not use prewritten his rhymes and that ideally he would be rhymes that would be on another level and considered intangible.
He was also pretty upfront when he remarked that he’s the best emcee out there especially when it comes to flowing off the head.
It’s not hard to argue with Juice. He’s definitely earned his stripes over the years, but I could not help weighing his remarks against those of Memphis Bleek who I ran into a few days prior to seeing Juice. Bleek told me that Jay gets accused of writing his rhymes down and that many have levied the charge about him going into a studio and just spitting rhymes is a made up gimmick.
Bleek was pretty earnest when he noted that the entire Roc-A-Fella family has been taught by Jay to not write but to go into the studio and spit from the heart about things they feel is real and important. Bleek noted that if they started writing they would be tempted to start making up stuff and that Jay is the real deal when he gets in the studio.
Now I’ve seen and heard Juice rip cats to shreds in battles and I’ve flip some incredible lyrics over the years. Like Jay it’s hard not to think he wrote stuff down and memorized it… and to be honest, it really shouldn’t matter because Juice is dope-hands down. With that being said, when I listen to songs off Reasonable Doubt or the Dynasty album, knowing that Jigga walked into the studio and just spit, it’s kind of hard to simply say Juice is the best. Jay-Z just might be the holder of the crown.
Now keep in mind that’s just one side to things. Let’s talk about emcees who can move the crowd and who have had earth shaking impact. We all know that Rakim shook things up with his flow backed by his Nation of Gods and Earths, Islamic influenced lyrics. R is indeed the 18th letter and the emcee God. He definitely moved the crowd.
But do we automatically give Rakim the crown when we have emcees like KRS and Chuck D in the wings. Haven’t both these gentlemen moved the crowd and changed the game? Does Rakim really have a tighter flow then KRS? Let’s say you think he does, doesn’t KRS get extra points for being an incredible performer?
Has Chuck D not been one of the biggest influences in Hip Hop ever? I recall that back in their hey day, PE was the most covered and most quoted Hip Hop group ever. Some may argue that Chuck’s flow pales compared to Rakim, but Chuck has moved the masses in ways that I think out weighs Rakim. Moving that aside listen to Chuck when he flows on songs like ‘Welcome to the Terrordome’, Fight the Power’ or ‘Night of the Living Bassheads’. Can he honestly say that it doesn’t measure up to Rakim’s ‘Follow the Leader’, ‘Casualties of War’, or Don’t Sweat the Technique’?
Let’s add KRS to the picture. Can we honestly compare ‘My Philosophy’, ‘Still Number One’ or ‘Sound of the Police’ to Rakim’s ‘Know the Ledge’ or ‘I know You Got Soul’. I seen both perform these songs at concerts and it was hard to tell who garnered bigger response. Both records move me, but in different ways. So how do we compare those great emcees?
Moving on, where do we place brilliant wordsmiths like Kool G Rap who has incredible flow, but was one of the best story tellers Hip Hop has ever seen? Where do put cats that can really flip lyrics like Big Daddy Kane or Masta Ace. Not only are both dope emcees but they are also some of the best writers Hip Hop has seen.
This debate about who is the greatest emcee and why can go on forever. What makes this so mind numbing is that I haven’t even factored in artists like 2Pac who was an incredible writer and Notorious BIG who like Jay also did not write down his material. Do they measure up or even surpass the KRS’s and Rakims of the world, both in their ability to move the crowd, their respective flows and overall impact?
I caught up with Mele-Mel the other week and posed this question to him. For those who don’t know Mele-Mel of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five was cited by Kool Moe Dee in his book ‘A God on the Mic’ as the best emcee ever and for good reason. First, Mele-Mel opened the door for message raps. Second, he had incredible presence and changed the game with his booming baritone voice. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly all modern day emcees owe the straight ahead 4 count, street oriented cadence to Mele-Mel.
Prior to him first hitting the scene back in ’76, ’77 most emcees who got on the mic tried to sound like a puking radio deejay. That style might range from the way artists like Kurtis Blow, Big Bank Hank of Sugar Hill Gang or DJ Hollywood would sound. In fact some who go back to those early days of Hip Hop would call that rhyme flow ‘disco style’ because it was most associated with guys like Lovebug Starski, Eddie Cheeba and DJ Hollywood who ran in different circles then pioneers like Bam, Flash and Mele-Mel. The aforementioned cats cut their teeth in swanky night clubs where they served as hype men and used the simple rhymes to keep the party moving.
In talking with DJ Hollywood, he explained that his objective was to make himself sound like he was part of the record. He wanted to keep the party popping and his raps were basically added toppings to an already successful formula. In fact what Hollywood and others were doing was the beginning of a style we call ‘party rocking’ which was later perfected by guys like Busy Bee and taken to its highest levels by artists like Doug E Fresh. Today artists like Lil Jon best personify that style. Prior to Lil Jon Luke of the 2 Live Crew was the man for this style.
Here having incredible rhymes was not the name of the game. It was your ability to move the crowd and in many ways be in the true spirit of what an emcee (Master of Ceremonies) was all about. How can you compare party rockers with battle rappers or brilliant story tellers? Lets be honest depending on the crowd and what sort of vibe is in the room, Lil Jon will ‘move the crowd more then a Rakim. Does that mean Lil Jon is the greatest emcee? Does Rakim lose his stripes if he steps in a club somewhere in the dirty south and tries to rock the house after folks been listening to Crunk all night?
With Mele-Mel, he wanted to set himself apart form what these older disco deejays were doing, so he played around with his rhyme style and came up with a flow that is a basic foundation for Hip Hop today.
Mele-Mel also explained what he feels makes a dope emcee. He said it’s the entire package. That would include recordings, performance, battles etc. To him an emcee must be well rounded and skilled in all aspects. If one is not he’s just a specialist, but that’s not enough to earn you a crown. Mele also spoke about the importance of longetivity. Time is the true measure of greatness.
Another thing that Mel spoke on was the importance of writing and delivery. He noted that he can come off the dome like anyone today, but when you got out on stage you needed to rock the house and bring your best stuff. If that means writing and rehearsing, so be it. It’s the mark of a good craftsman and if done with sincerity and a desire to really move the crowd, one will put in the extra time and work to reach they peak.
Talent is one thing, but true skillz are developed as you train and perfect your talent...
Much of what Mele-Mel has mentioned has been reiterated by fellow pioneer Grandmaster Caz who like Mel has always written and perfected his rhymes. A brilliant story teller, Caz raised the level of skill sets needed by emcees cause he would rip rhymes using the fast paced straight ahead cadence established by Mel, but also cut and scratch records while doing it.. For those who think this is easy, keep in Mind Caz, was doing this before there were fancy mixers with special scratch buttons and fancy Technique 1200 turntables. To see what Caz worked with gives you much deeper appreciation for his emcee skillz.
So what makes a dope emcee and who is the greatest? We'll continue this discussion next column.. In the meantime hit me with your thoughts and feedback?
