On your standards they become modernized and that is a positive thing. Yet it seems to the Tibetans they had to give up their rights, the Tibetans are the ones who are protesting. Why, if this was a great gain for them, would they protest against it? Why are they so unhappy for being "free?" Why would the Dalai Lama be forced to leave his own country if it were for freedom?
China, Tibet and the Olympic Games
- Thread starter hizzle?
- Start date
Look at Tibetan history, the Tibetan people were never free. The monks and Lamas had complete power while the rest were serfs who did everything for the monasteries.
Its like when Native groups in North America protest for their land. They have freedom and modernization (arguable), yet they protest. Why aren't we supporting their cause for freedom? Because its easier to criticize something happening in a far away land than in our own backyard
Its like when Native groups in North America protest for their land. They have freedom and modernization (arguable), yet they protest. Why aren't we supporting their cause for freedom? Because its easier to criticize something happening in a far away land than in our own backyard
Native Americans arnt in my backyard, I support any cause that I believe is right. Going by the Tibetans and not my own principals of how I'd like to live in my country I believe they were happier when the Chinese didn't invade and "modernize, civilize, humanize" their culture. That is proven in the simple fact they have in majority fought against Chinese occupancy of their land. I am yet to understand why, if they were so oppressed before the invasion, they would be so unhappy still today.
Replace Native Americans with Indigenous Australians.
Because the people protesting are people born after Chinese invasion, they never endured forced serfdom and oppression of the Lamas. Remember that these people believed (and still do) that their leader is a reincarnation of the Buddha, so of course they would defend him at all cost.
By your logic the people of North Korea are living in heaven on earth right now
Because the people protesting are people born after Chinese invasion, they never endured forced serfdom and oppression of the Lamas. Remember that these people believed (and still do) that their leader is a reincarnation of the Buddha, so of course they would defend him at all cost.
By your logic the people of North Korea are living in heaven on earth right now
I am as much in support of Aboriginal rights as I am with the Tibetans.
The people protesting today are likely sons, daughters etc of the people who protested in 1959, 1980 and 1987 just because they were born after the occupation doesn't stop the brutality and oppression they may be suffering today.
To compare this with North Korea is insane, how Tibet had anything similar to the political atmosphere North Korea has today is lost on me. Did Tibetans get tortured if they spoke out? Were they refused permission to exit their own country if they desired? You should try and keep this conversation in perspective of the conditions you are trying to compare.
The people protesting today are likely sons, daughters etc of the people who protested in 1959, 1980 and 1987 just because they were born after the occupation doesn't stop the brutality and oppression they may be suffering today.
To compare this with North Korea is insane, how Tibet had anything similar to the political atmosphere North Korea has today is lost on me. Did Tibetans get tortured if they spoke out? Were they refused permission to exit their own country if they desired? You should try and keep this conversation in perspective of the conditions you are trying to compare.
If they lived in the feudalistic era of Tibet i would guarantee that they wouldn't be protesting. Nationalism is the only reason they are protesting.
Tibetans were slaves to Lamas. They were forced to grow certain crops and animals for their master. There would torture serfs who resisted with eye gouges, pulling out tongues, hamstrings and amputated limbs. In Buddhist teachings it says to never take a human life so they would mutilate them so much that they would leave them outside and let them freeze to death. Read up on Tibetan history instead of thinking that Buddhist countries are all peaceful, there has never been one.
Tibetans were slaves to Lamas. They were forced to grow certain crops and animals for their master. There would torture serfs who resisted with eye gouges, pulling out tongues, hamstrings and amputated limbs. In Buddhist teachings it says to never take a human life so they would mutilate them so much that they would leave them outside and let them freeze to death. Read up on Tibetan history instead of thinking that Buddhist countries are all peaceful, there has never been one.
If America took over the n.Korea, forced democracy there, built roads, cities, gave them food and repaired their economy they would still protest and hate Americans.
Why? Because they have deeper values than economy and food, such as national pride and patriotism.
That's why people in Tibet protest.
Glockmatic is right, Chinese "occupation" is good for economy of Tibet and is positive for their growth.
People who barely had food now work in new-built factories for rice, they can feed their families etc.
Also Chinese don't kill Tibetans just because they like, they kill them because they protest. If you watch those protests on tv you will see tibetans attacking Chinese people, that's when they probably get shot.
Why? Because they have deeper values than economy and food, such as national pride and patriotism.
That's why people in Tibet protest.
Glockmatic is right, Chinese "occupation" is good for economy of Tibet and is positive for their growth.
People who barely had food now work in new-built factories for rice, they can feed their families etc.
Also Chinese don't kill Tibetans just because they like, they kill them because they protest. If you watch those protests on tv you will see tibetans attacking Chinese people, that's when they probably get shot.
You do sound like someone who was speaking to people in/from China.
1. I agree, canceling the games will do nothing good.
2. The Chinese government DOES care. They care more about the games than anything short of their power. To them, it's a validation of their country and their system.
3. The Olympics itself is NOT a mechanism for advancement, unless dissidence comes with it. Short of all the uprisings, all the games are doing is perpetuating, accentuating, and speeding up the divisions and imbalances that their socio-political system creates. More opportunities for people in the cities, and wider disparities among the rich/powerful and the poor.
4. It also doesn't make them more humane. If anything, the government has become more brutal in attempts to squash all dissidence so the country appears stable and happy. You can find countless accounts of people being stripped from their homes and families because they said something subversive about the government. It's unreal.
If you want to push hard for change, this is what should be done. You boycott the opening ceremonies, make sure the reason is strongly implied but not stated. The political leaders should not step foot inside China until a big event, in which case they go to support our athletes and to open up dialogue with China about the recent events. You encourage protesters behind the scenes and send as many journalists as you can to cover it all--especially the hardcore journalists who don't care about China's press regulations because they're Americans and they know if anything happens to them, China is fucked in a major way.
If you want pressure to change, you need to keep the wheels of dissidence turning, but you also need as many spotlights and cameras in there as possible to make sure everyone knows about it--ESPECIALLY the people of China, many of whom are not benefiting under this government and might stand up in favor of reform if they saw how many others were willing to as well.
Keep the Games, keep the pressure. Help China become an actual Republic.
1. I agree, canceling the games will do nothing good.
2. The Chinese government DOES care. They care more about the games than anything short of their power. To them, it's a validation of their country and their system.
3. The Olympics itself is NOT a mechanism for advancement, unless dissidence comes with it. Short of all the uprisings, all the games are doing is perpetuating, accentuating, and speeding up the divisions and imbalances that their socio-political system creates. More opportunities for people in the cities, and wider disparities among the rich/powerful and the poor.
4. It also doesn't make them more humane. If anything, the government has become more brutal in attempts to squash all dissidence so the country appears stable and happy. You can find countless accounts of people being stripped from their homes and families because they said something subversive about the government. It's unreal.
If you want to push hard for change, this is what should be done. You boycott the opening ceremonies, make sure the reason is strongly implied but not stated. The political leaders should not step foot inside China until a big event, in which case they go to support our athletes and to open up dialogue with China about the recent events. You encourage protesters behind the scenes and send as many journalists as you can to cover it all--especially the hardcore journalists who don't care about China's press regulations because they're Americans and they know if anything happens to them, China is fucked in a major way.
If you want pressure to change, you need to keep the wheels of dissidence turning, but you also need as many spotlights and cameras in there as possible to make sure everyone knows about it--ESPECIALLY the people of China, many of whom are not benefiting under this government and might stand up in favor of reform if they saw how many others were willing to as well.
Keep the Games, keep the pressure. Help China become an actual Republic.
The 1950's was a great time wasn't it? America was still lynching, killing, discriminating openly Black people, World War II just finished up after Hitler killed 6 million Jews. Tibet may not have been perfect, I never believed it was, but I also don't believe the Chinese had the Tibetans best interests at heart. The Dalai Lama himself while still in Lhasa decided on a democratic society and since being in exile creating a democratic constitution. He has promised to handover his historical and political power to an interim government.
I don't believe the Chinese is the only hope for Tibet to flourish and its clear they don't believe that either.
I didn't say that Buddhist countries are peaceful please show me where I said that? But at the same time show me a country that IS peaceful?
There are plenty of protests in Tibet, I'm sure those are Tibetans. The protests in Greece were probably majority Greek, how strange!
Anyway we all have right to our opinions, and I respect you have yours. I just feel differently. Just be thankful you were born in a country you have that right.
I don't believe the Chinese is the only hope for Tibet to flourish and its clear they don't believe that either.
I didn't say that Buddhist countries are peaceful please show me where I said that? But at the same time show me a country that IS peaceful?
There are plenty of protests in Tibet, I'm sure those are Tibetans. The protests in Greece were probably majority Greek, how strange!
Anyway we all have right to our opinions, and I respect you have yours. I just feel differently. Just be thankful you were born in a country you have that right.
Actually, China has treated Tibet like a second-class society ever since the "agreement" that was made in 1950. Not that China ever lived up to their end of the agreement, as they have been eroding Tibetan autonomy since the 1950's--the autonomy that they promised to the Tibetan people.
Not to mention that they are basically moving in ethnic Han Chinese to make Tibetans the minority, and also making sure that those Chinese receive an disproportional amount of socioeconomic benefits and power. Moreover, the Chinese government has been taking steps to control the religious ranks among Tibetan Buddhists by appointing certain leaders all the way from Beijing. I heard the term "cultural genocide" thrown around, and I think it's a relatively fair statement. They don't want Tibet to have any leg to stand on, and they've been trying to make sure they wouldn't for a long time.
Not to mention that they are basically moving in ethnic Han Chinese to make Tibetans the minority, and also making sure that those Chinese receive an disproportional amount of socioeconomic benefits and power. Moreover, the Chinese government has been taking steps to control the religious ranks among Tibetan Buddhists by appointing certain leaders all the way from Beijing. I heard the term "cultural genocide" thrown around, and I think it's a relatively fair statement. They don't want Tibet to have any leg to stand on, and they've been trying to make sure they wouldn't for a long time.
Tibet's form of government was theocratic dictatorship, that can't be compared to the US, no matter what was happening to the blacks in the 50s and 60s. The blacks could speak out and protest, the Tibetans couldn't.
You said that they were happier before China invaded, I'm sure that people who were enslaved (the majority) would disagree.
You said that they were happier before China invaded, I'm sure that people who were enslaved (the majority) would disagree.
Donate
Any donations will be used to help pay for the site costs, and anything donated above will be donated to C-Dub's son on behalf of this community.
Members online
No members online now.