Too long to quote. Here you go:
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/what-makes-a-terrorist/#
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/what-makes-a-terrorist/#
What makes a terrorist?
- Thread starter S O F I
- Start date
true. But throwin bombs out of planes 1000s of miles away from home isn't protecting yourself neigther..... and please don't tell me they had WMD, I think that case is done.
Anyway. A terrorist is someone that doesn't agree with the system or a certain state and activly, most of the time violently, fights against it. That would be my definition. I strongly try to remember that those that fought against the Nazi's in the underground during WWII were called terrorists as well. Or those that the US work with right now in Afganisthan etc .... 10 years ago, with another people rulin the country, those were terrorist ..... so, yeah, it's not that simple as GWBush makes it look like. It just depens on your point of view.
Anyway. A terrorist is someone that doesn't agree with the system or a certain state and activly, most of the time violently, fights against it. That would be my definition. I strongly try to remember that those that fought against the Nazi's in the underground during WWII were called terrorists as well. Or those that the US work with right now in Afganisthan etc .... 10 years ago, with another people rulin the country, those were terrorist ..... so, yeah, it's not that simple as GWBush makes it look like. It just depens on your point of view.
^^
Yeah, they should be called freedom fighters. It doesn't sound quite as negative as 'terrorist' but it would help in understanding them rather than just simply painting them off as evil muslims. The whole 'us verses them' mentality just blind-sights people... and in combination with an over-exaggerated feeling of patriotism leads them into wars they later regret
Yeah, they should be called freedom fighters. It doesn't sound quite as negative as 'terrorist' but it would help in understanding them rather than just simply painting them off as evil muslims. The whole 'us verses them' mentality just blind-sights people... and in combination with an over-exaggerated feeling of patriotism leads them into wars they later regret
yes, people who keep women uneducated, manipluate their religion for their own personal gains and kill in the name of their god because they dont' like "evil western world" should be understood much deeper and welcomed with open arms. after all if you don't conform to their ways they will cut your head off.
understanding the problem is the first step to a solution.
first of all, you have to keep in mind that these people do not consider themselves evil. your post assumes that they live by the same morals and ethics as us. the way you angle it, you don't open yourself to understanding why they are this way. there has to be a reason, and surely, finding out what that reason is and dealing with it in a respectful manner would be better than continuing to throw shit at each other, right? americans hate muslims and muslims hate americans. this clouds the judgment of both sides.
muslim A in pakistan doesn't think he is wrong in thinking that america has done harm unto his brothers and sisters. he feels morally empowered to take revenge because "you started it" from his perspective. he didn't tell osama to bomb the twin towers and that's where it all started, really. but him and his people have to suffer the consequences either way. he feels mistreated in a way that's not right. if someone attacked your homeland, you would protect it. if regular guns became obsolete you would find another way. you wouldn't sit there and say yes to an oppressive force. try to flip the situation around. let's say america is poor but still maintains the same tendencies (lots of violence, lots of patriotism, lots of political shit lol) and the middle east was the super power with money and military strength. let's say that in the same way that america chose to rid the world of a muslim extremist terrorist group, the middle east decided to attack the u.s. for a similar reason that makes sense to them and everyone else on their side, but not to you. you're saying that they shouldn't bitch about their human rights because they are morally wrong to begin with, so they have "no right" to make that inquiry?
see either way, that's where the problem lies. people feel that muslims should abandon their ways because they "only cause problems for the rest of the world" or some shit like that. i don't really know what people's reasonings are but either way, it's like expecting a dog to feel guilty about attacking another dog when they were both unleashed. it's what dogs do. well much in the same way, instead of trying to force anything onto the middle east, we should respect them as being different and find the best way to co-exist. sure, saying yes to all that stuff you said in your post doesn't seem morally right to us, but it is the best solution in order to bring this shit to a halt. one side has to give in and since the middle east didn't ask to be invaded, and since we're being all ethical today, imo it should be the u.s. increase security in your homeland, not the homeland of your enemy.
edit: if you do have to attack a country, couldn't it be iran instead? that's one country i rly have a problem with.
first of all, you have to keep in mind that these people do not consider themselves evil. your post assumes that they live by the same morals and ethics as us. the way you angle it, you don't open yourself to understanding why they are this way. there has to be a reason, and surely, finding out what that reason is and dealing with it in a respectful manner would be better than continuing to throw shit at each other, right? americans hate muslims and muslims hate americans. this clouds the judgment of both sides.
muslim A in pakistan doesn't think he is wrong in thinking that america has done harm unto his brothers and sisters. he feels morally empowered to take revenge because "you started it" from his perspective. he didn't tell osama to bomb the twin towers and that's where it all started, really. but him and his people have to suffer the consequences either way. he feels mistreated in a way that's not right. if someone attacked your homeland, you would protect it. if regular guns became obsolete you would find another way. you wouldn't sit there and say yes to an oppressive force. try to flip the situation around. let's say america is poor but still maintains the same tendencies (lots of violence, lots of patriotism, lots of political shit lol) and the middle east was the super power with money and military strength. let's say that in the same way that america chose to rid the world of a muslim extremist terrorist group, the middle east decided to attack the u.s. for a similar reason that makes sense to them and everyone else on their side, but not to you. you're saying that they shouldn't bitch about their human rights because they are morally wrong to begin with, so they have "no right" to make that inquiry?
see either way, that's where the problem lies. people feel that muslims should abandon their ways because they "only cause problems for the rest of the world" or some shit like that. i don't really know what people's reasonings are but either way, it's like expecting a dog to feel guilty about attacking another dog when they were both unleashed. it's what dogs do. well much in the same way, instead of trying to force anything onto the middle east, we should respect them as being different and find the best way to co-exist. sure, saying yes to all that stuff you said in your post doesn't seem morally right to us, but it is the best solution in order to bring this shit to a halt. one side has to give in and since the middle east didn't ask to be invaded, and since we're being all ethical today, imo it should be the u.s. increase security in your homeland, not the homeland of your enemy.
edit: if you do have to attack a country, couldn't it be iran instead? that's one country i rly have a problem with.
Valid point Preach, but this shit has been goin on since way before we decided to invade Iraq... They're mad because of Western Influence, to be honest there would be no western influence in these lands if the people there didn't accept (grasp) it because it would be a dumb decision economically...
We did have respect for them once upon a time ago in what was called the Cold War, we as the US played a huge role in the retreat of the Soviet Union, without our weapons they never would've been able to destroy the Soviet helicopters that wreaked havoc on the Afghani's etc;
We knowingly made a decision to arm these guys with weapons to defeat the Soviet Union who everyone was scared of back in the day, and this is how they repay us? While the terrorists were facing today weren't directly behind the attacks on the trade center, i highly doubt there were many who were against that occurring.
We did have respect for them once upon a time ago in what was called the Cold War, we as the US played a huge role in the retreat of the Soviet Union, without our weapons they never would've been able to destroy the Soviet helicopters that wreaked havoc on the Afghani's etc;
We knowingly made a decision to arm these guys with weapons to defeat the Soviet Union who everyone was scared of back in the day, and this is how they repay us? While the terrorists were facing today weren't directly behind the attacks on the trade center, i highly doubt there were many who were against that occurring.
you may or may not reply while i'm typing this up, but i'll elaborate on my previous post a little.
when making an individual judgment, you are supposed to trust your own intuition. your intuition is your sense of understanding of how things work right, so it's basically a sum of your experiences. when making a collective call that affects several people of different ranks or "types" you have to look beyond the boundaries of your own mind to make the best possible call, right?
fuck what's "right". if an american will admit that he just wants to see someone burn because he is angry at something, fine. that's an opinion too, i guess. but anyone with some scruples know that you will have to forget what your emotions tell you is right and look at a grander perspective. it's fair to say, if you ask me, that when it comes to international human rights, some mideastern will have conflicting views and opinions on how to deal with an opposing force, be it a criminal or an invading country. if you ask me, we need to loosen our "philanthropies" a little and be able to say that america actually has to approach the middle east as someone who doesn't "know better" and act accordingly. it sounds horrible when you say it, but you have to really understand that these people will do what they deem is right and it will deviate from what you think is right so instead of expecting them to change their opinions or trying to turn them, you need to approach the situation as it is - you can't do anything about it so you have to find the best alternative solution.
i'm high so i'm probably getting a little bit inconsistent by now. if this is the case, i apologize.
when making an individual judgment, you are supposed to trust your own intuition. your intuition is your sense of understanding of how things work right, so it's basically a sum of your experiences. when making a collective call that affects several people of different ranks or "types" you have to look beyond the boundaries of your own mind to make the best possible call, right?
fuck what's "right". if an american will admit that he just wants to see someone burn because he is angry at something, fine. that's an opinion too, i guess. but anyone with some scruples know that you will have to forget what your emotions tell you is right and look at a grander perspective. it's fair to say, if you ask me, that when it comes to international human rights, some mideastern will have conflicting views and opinions on how to deal with an opposing force, be it a criminal or an invading country. if you ask me, we need to loosen our "philanthropies" a little and be able to say that america actually has to approach the middle east as someone who doesn't "know better" and act accordingly. it sounds horrible when you say it, but you have to really understand that these people will do what they deem is right and it will deviate from what you think is right so instead of expecting them to change their opinions or trying to turn them, you need to approach the situation as it is - you can't do anything about it so you have to find the best alternative solution.
i'm high so i'm probably getting a little bit inconsistent by now. if this is the case, i apologize.
Oh you silly yank.
Yes they should be understood much deeper in order to find the root of the problem and eliminate it rather than increasing security and say it's working because there hasn't been a terrorist attack since.
For reference, see The Simpsons episode with the bear. The mayor sets all this security crap in motion and Homer says it's working because there hasn't been a bear since. Lisa responds that with that reasoning you can conclude that *picks up a rock* this rock repels tigers since there hasn't been a tiger here. Homer buys the rock.
I don't really need to respond to this any further, do I?
All I'm saying is that these people should be understood in order to prevent things like 9/11 happening again, not because you want to help those poor confused souls.
Of course you can simply label them terrorists and be done with it but that will only invite future drama that will "change the world forever".
Yes they should be understood much deeper in order to find the root of the problem and eliminate it rather than increasing security and say it's working because there hasn't been a terrorist attack since.
For reference, see The Simpsons episode with the bear. The mayor sets all this security crap in motion and Homer says it's working because there hasn't been a bear since. Lisa responds that with that reasoning you can conclude that *picks up a rock* this rock repels tigers since there hasn't been a tiger here. Homer buys the rock.
I don't really need to respond to this any further, do I?
All I'm saying is that these people should be understood in order to prevent things like 9/11 happening again, not because you want to help those poor confused souls.
Of course you can simply label them terrorists and be done with it but that will only invite future drama that will "change the world forever".
This is why I don't post here anymore and why this will be my last post period. So many ignorant and racist people on this board. Over the past 2 years its gotten unbearable. The first thing brought up on this topic was Arab or Muslim. As if Arabs or Muslims are the only ones committing terror, or have committed terror. No one ever stops to think what would you do, if a foreign force invaded your country under false pretense and was oppressive. Would you sit on your ass like a chump an do nothing? Or would you fight to free your people from the oppression?
I don't condone nor approve of the killing of innocents at all. I find it ironic that 300 years ago when the U.S. was fighting for its independence from England they were labeled "Terrorists, insurgents" or when the native Americans stood up for themselves and fought back, they were labeled "savages" and other nonsense. Or when enslaved blacks would fight for their freedom many years ago and during the civil rights movement all the labels that were applied to them as well.
My point is alot of you make assumptions and ignorant statements. Not all terrorists are Muslim nor Arab in fact "Muslim Terrorist" is an oxymoron. Matter fact the biggest terrorist in the world and history has been the United States, as someone who is half native American myself I can tell you the proof is in this countries violent and evil past, this country killed millions of my ancestors damn near to the point where today a FULL BLOODED Native American is such a rarity to find. Theres nothing funny nor admirable about a person who goes and blows them self up in a crowd of innocent people. But there is something to be admired of a group of people who fight against a foreign force or entity which they feel is oppressing them and their fellow countrymen.
Keep in mind while you sit in your house playing around on your computer, eating cheeto's and ranting on in ignorance that by the state departments estimates over 200,000 innocent Iraqi's have been killed during this conflict, keep in mind that in some areas of the world people live in a daily fear of a 2,000lbs bomb being dropped on their neighborhood. Keep in mind that when it comes to terrorism the United States has mastered the art of terrorism all through its history. Do i applaud seeing U.S. troops being killed? Hell no, I was in the military and served in Iraq. But the ignorance displayed on this board in the past few years has grown too an alarming number. People like Morris don't even post anymore. There is no more intellectual discussion here anymore only ignorance and senseless ranting. Flame all you want I spoke my piece. Peace to all the good members past and present but I am moving on. I can't say i will never view the board again but posting here again is highly doubtful.
I don't condone nor approve of the killing of innocents at all. I find it ironic that 300 years ago when the U.S. was fighting for its independence from England they were labeled "Terrorists, insurgents" or when the native Americans stood up for themselves and fought back, they were labeled "savages" and other nonsense. Or when enslaved blacks would fight for their freedom many years ago and during the civil rights movement all the labels that were applied to them as well.
My point is alot of you make assumptions and ignorant statements. Not all terrorists are Muslim nor Arab in fact "Muslim Terrorist" is an oxymoron. Matter fact the biggest terrorist in the world and history has been the United States, as someone who is half native American myself I can tell you the proof is in this countries violent and evil past, this country killed millions of my ancestors damn near to the point where today a FULL BLOODED Native American is such a rarity to find. Theres nothing funny nor admirable about a person who goes and blows them self up in a crowd of innocent people. But there is something to be admired of a group of people who fight against a foreign force or entity which they feel is oppressing them and their fellow countrymen.
Keep in mind while you sit in your house playing around on your computer, eating cheeto's and ranting on in ignorance that by the state departments estimates over 200,000 innocent Iraqi's have been killed during this conflict, keep in mind that in some areas of the world people live in a daily fear of a 2,000lbs bomb being dropped on their neighborhood. Keep in mind that when it comes to terrorism the United States has mastered the art of terrorism all through its history. Do i applaud seeing U.S. troops being killed? Hell no, I was in the military and served in Iraq. But the ignorance displayed on this board in the past few years has grown too an alarming number. People like Morris don't even post anymore. There is no more intellectual discussion here anymore only ignorance and senseless ranting. Flame all you want I spoke my piece. Peace to all the good members past and present but I am moving on. I can't say i will never view the board again but posting here again is highly doubtful.
Keep in mind that before the US came over Sadaam Hussein killed well over 400,000 of his own countrymen and women... and the vast majority of civilian deaths during the Iraqi war are at the hand of their own countrymen such as "al qaeda" and other religious extremists... Innocent people were getting killed everyday before the war and unfortunately they still are in a very unpopular war, thats life...
get off your pedestal, mister.
a) i supported your notion so we're not all "racists".
b) a large portion of the terror that you hear about in international medias have been committed by muslim extremist groups. suicide bombings are a known strategy that has been utilized time and again in the middle east. you hear about it all the time. obviously, being the flawed human beings that we are, this would occupy some of the discussion.
c) the thread doesn't have to end here, you know. you could have voiced your opinion without saying you'll never post again and maybe we could have what they call "a discussion".
d) when "america" slew indians it was still a very young nation. it was comprised of people from all over the world. i don't think it's right to use that as a comparison.
e) i take your whole post as propaganda. you are on this trip because you've probably been annoyed with certain types of opinions for a while and now you throw a tantrum pulling all kinds of wild comparisons to show us that everybody in this world is evil, not just muslim extremists.
f) if there had been a bunch of black suicide bombings over the past decade i'm sure we would have mentioned that instead. so it has nothing to do with muslims, just the fact that the facts tell us that muslim + being crazy + having access to black market arms = produced a lot of terrorists.
g) will you feel better if i admit most lunatic serial-killers were white and from the western world?
a) i supported your notion so we're not all "racists".
b) a large portion of the terror that you hear about in international medias have been committed by muslim extremist groups. suicide bombings are a known strategy that has been utilized time and again in the middle east. you hear about it all the time. obviously, being the flawed human beings that we are, this would occupy some of the discussion.
c) the thread doesn't have to end here, you know. you could have voiced your opinion without saying you'll never post again and maybe we could have what they call "a discussion".
d) when "america" slew indians it was still a very young nation. it was comprised of people from all over the world. i don't think it's right to use that as a comparison.
e) i take your whole post as propaganda. you are on this trip because you've probably been annoyed with certain types of opinions for a while and now you throw a tantrum pulling all kinds of wild comparisons to show us that everybody in this world is evil, not just muslim extremists.
f) if there had been a bunch of black suicide bombings over the past decade i'm sure we would have mentioned that instead. so it has nothing to do with muslims, just the fact that the facts tell us that muslim + being crazy + having access to black market arms = produced a lot of terrorists.
g) will you feel better if i admit most lunatic serial-killers were white and from the western world?
Dude that's strange what you're saying. Of course not all Muslims are guilty, don't defend them so hard. It's just a fact that most terrorists are muslims/arabs.
It there are 100 terrorists - 10 white, 10 black, 10 asian and 70 arab/muslim who would you blame?
Whenever people see a white dude they won't consider him a terrorist because there is a small chance but while I see a muslim I tend to avoid him for my own safety because 1. there is a risk that he'll blow his ass off as it's a most "terrorism-ish" race, 2. If there is less than 1% of Muslims in my country so there's not that many of them to avoid 3. they are not native here, they don't speak our language well so it's more risky that he's a suicide bomber. Even if you'll call me a racist tell me why? Bad muslims made me feel that way. I won't go and talk to a dude to see if he's good or bad because I fear for my life. I prefer all of them to stay away from me.
I won't ever get inside a subway with a Muslim but I'm NOT a racist tho.
It's the same as meeting few mexicans or young black men in a dark valley for Americans. You don't want to know what they are up to and better not risk.
It there are 100 terrorists - 10 white, 10 black, 10 asian and 70 arab/muslim who would you blame?
Whenever people see a white dude they won't consider him a terrorist because there is a small chance but while I see a muslim I tend to avoid him for my own safety because 1. there is a risk that he'll blow his ass off as it's a most "terrorism-ish" race, 2. If there is less than 1% of Muslims in my country so there's not that many of them to avoid 3. they are not native here, they don't speak our language well so it's more risky that he's a suicide bomber. Even if you'll call me a racist tell me why? Bad muslims made me feel that way. I won't go and talk to a dude to see if he's good or bad because I fear for my life. I prefer all of them to stay away from me.
I won't ever get inside a subway with a Muslim but I'm NOT a racist tho.
It's the same as meeting few mexicans or young black men in a dark valley for Americans. You don't want to know what they are up to and better not risk.
well first i would like to say i thought my post had a little hint of sarcasim in it but i guess it doesnt always come off so well on the net as it does in real life
that is true what you say about them not conisdering themselves evil. but then again neither did the kkk. but they were evil and are evil. i do understand why they are the way they are. they are ignorant, scared of an ever chaning world around them, and do not want to give up their old barbarian ways which include racism and oppression. sometimes there is no respectful manner to deal with it. some times if you want peace, you must go to war.
. no. the history of islamic extremist goes back decades. it can be found back in ww2 and some historians have traced it back to the days of thomas jefferson.
.
no. it is not that people feel that muslims should abandon their ways. it is they they KNOW that muslim extremist are WRONG in their ways. people need to stop trying to analyze the way islamic extremists are the way they are and try to come to a mutual agreement with them and start to realize what is right and what is wrong. christianity extremist are wrong. the kkk is wrong. islamic extremist are wrong. they will never be right in their ways.
muslims aren't bad. it is the people that manipulate their religion and take it to far extreme measures for their own agendas that are the ones that makes true muslims look bad. same thing has been done christianity.
that is true what you say about them not conisdering themselves evil. but then again neither did the kkk. but they were evil and are evil. i do understand why they are the way they are. they are ignorant, scared of an ever chaning world around them, and do not want to give up their old barbarian ways which include racism and oppression. sometimes there is no respectful manner to deal with it. some times if you want peace, you must go to war.
. no. the history of islamic extremist goes back decades. it can be found back in ww2 and some historians have traced it back to the days of thomas jefferson.
.
no. it is not that people feel that muslims should abandon their ways. it is they they KNOW that muslim extremist are WRONG in their ways. people need to stop trying to analyze the way islamic extremists are the way they are and try to come to a mutual agreement with them and start to realize what is right and what is wrong. christianity extremist are wrong. the kkk is wrong. islamic extremist are wrong. they will never be right in their ways.
muslims aren't bad. it is the people that manipulate their religion and take it to far extreme measures for their own agendas that are the ones that makes true muslims look bad. same thing has been done christianity.
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