Once again...

[S O F I]

^But, like I said, you cannot do such a thing; the events are too different. What you're attempting to argue is the "when you tell a kid not to go and play with fire, the kid goes and lights the house on fire" type of thing. The power didn't get into the hands of the mob because people found it necessary to rebel against the system. People didn't find a moral and ethical reason not to use alcohol.

Not to forget the addictive nature of alcohol and drugs - something not seen with using guns.

 

[PuffnScruff]

thats not what i am arguing at all

as i said i am simply using a historical event, which we can learn from and use as an example, even if they may not be exactly the same in nature but would have similarites as far as the ban goes, and learn from the reaction that would happen from the action of putting a ban on guns.

the peoples actions, during prohibition era, were rebelious of the law. moral and ethics aside it was the actions of the people rebeling against the law that put the power into the mob.

addiction has nothing to do with this

 

[Kareem]

Guns aren't the problem! What Jada Kiss say "How they gonna give you life for the murder then turn around an only give you 8 months for the burner"? Start making tougher sentencing! guns don't kill people stupid motherfuckers with guns kill people! You think banning all guns will keep them outa the criminals hands? nope they'll go underground get em on the black market an while they have them those of us who don't walk around shooting everyone an everything will have no means to protect ourselves.

Another aspect is people need to start taking some damn responsibility for their actions an stop passing blame, if your a parent be a damn parent to your children, put the damn weed down, stay outa the clubs an grow the fuck up! Period thats problem number one! Peace

 

[hizzle?]

i have been firing them since i was 6 years old. i have never once had a feeling of power from a gun. maybe its different for me because i learned at a young age to the rights and wrongs and to respect it as a dangerous weapon that can kill and should only be used in drastic times.

I'm glad to see that you turned out normal, but what the FUCK is wrong with your parents???!!!?!?! (I'm not attacking your parents, but in all honesty, they are not responsible.)


Anyways. Like RFTP said, it has nothing to do with the law, it has everything to do with mentality. But I think that mentality, as culture and such, comes from laws. By legalizing guns, you make them accessible to a vast majority of people (to the sane and to the insane). By making them legal, some people may see them as an easy way to solve a problem (in this case this little asian kid who decided to kill as many people as he could)...

I'll edit this post later so I can write everything I think, but I'm really tired and I can't really think in english right now :ashamed:

 

[PuffnScruff]

I'm glad to see that you turned out normal, but what the FUCK is wrong with your parents???!!!?!?! (I'm not attacking your parents, but in all honesty, they are not responsible.)

not responsible? it is actually the most responsible thing a parent, who happens to be a gun ower and have guns in the house, even if they are locked up, could do. its the right thing to do. teach a child the dangers of a fire arm at a young age and you wont have them running around thinking its a toy and accidentally shooting a friend playing cops and robbers.

you dont know my parents. if you did you wouldnt say they are not responsible. they are the most responsible people i will ever know in my life.

if they DIDN'T teach me the responsiblities, rights and wrongs of firearms at a young then they would be fucked up and irresponsible

 

[Little Skittle]

Big school/uni shooting in the States. Virginia. 20+ people dead, same number injured.


Short question for the WoW heads: What is to blame?

a.) America's gun legislation?

or

b.) America's gun obession?



I'll take B. The country is obessed with firearms. It's heavily embedded in the culture, the lifestyle. Cars, guns and hamburgers. Yeehaw. Now they're fat and dead.


(Disclaimer: these news reports about school shootings fire up specific anti-American sentiments with me, so any overly patriotic Yanks thinking to take a dig at me: Way ahead of ya.)

Yea? And what the fuck do you know? Have you ever even been to America?

 

[PuffnScruff]

yeah i have to wonder duke what is that makes you think my country has an obsession with guns? are you basing this off of the media? i live here, i have lived in the country for 22 years. i dont see an obsession. and thats not a conclusion coming from the media but from interacting with people in this country

one of the biggest things people seem to fail in seeing when it comes to owning guns in the country is that its in the constitution for a reason.

lets say one day venesuala, china, and north korea decide to invade this country one day(of course this is hypothetical so dont start saying that would never happen and that shit because you really dont know that). are we just supposed to lay down and say "ok i'll salute your flag now" or wait for the military to come in and fight? even if a good number of troops are in other parts of the world? should the citizens just hope the military, police, and govt save them?

 

[S O F I]

^The reason the right to carry firearms is in the constitution is exactly for the reasons you stated. It was a way of citizens to protect themselves in case of invasion. But, 200 hundred years later, the same logic clearly does not apply. But, the law stayed in tact.

Ultimately, I agree with you puffy that banning guns is not a solution to this matter at all; especially since the gun was illegally obtained to begin with. Plus, like Jokerman stated, he was a Chinese citizen here with a student visa.

My question is and one that I pose to not just you but to everybody, what seems to be the root of problems like this and what can be the solution? There's not one cause and there's not one solution. But, let's spit them out.

 

[Glockmatic]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Cho was a permanent legal resident of the United States, according to a
Homeland Security Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.

 

[CoolWaterz]

Big school/uni shooting in the States. Virginia. 20+ people dead, same number injured.


Short question for the WoW heads: What is to blame?

a.) America's gun legislation?

or

b.) America's gun obession?



I'll take B. The country is obessed with firearms. It's heavily embedded in the culture, the lifestyle. Cars, guns and hamburgers. Yeehaw. Now they're fat and dead.


(Disclaimer: these news reports about school shootings fire up specific anti-American sentiments with me, so any overly patriotic Yanks thinking to take a dig at me: Way ahead of ya.)

The gun man was Cho Sung Hui, a 23 year old NON US CITIZEN in the country on a visa. D'OH!

 

[ill-matic]

I said this in the thread in Our Block, but I'll paste it in here too.

I think the biggest issue here is the degree of accessibility and availability of firearms within the U.S. It gets to a point that firearms are SO widely accessible that it really begins to question the relevance of having an outline of what is considered a legal purchase and what isn't. Meaning that because they're so easy to obtain, the whole "legal" way of doing things becomes a complete joke. If the Columbine kids could access the firearms so easily (by just asking one of their buddies to purhcase it for them - straw purchasing), then questions really do need to be raised about why firearms are so readily available in the US.

Another thing, which I am not sure is corroborated with fact as I haven't researched it - is the idea that this easy accessibility leads to the emergence of a gun culture. You cannot have a gun culture if there are no guns present - and I'm just putting forth the idea that this availability has done nothing but provide the seeds for the gun culture to grow from.

Availability is the issue here, and it is one of the core problems behind the US gun massacres and other gun-related deaths. It's a problem that should be addressed in order to have the problem alleviated any time soon.

 

[Sebastian]

^The reason the right to carry firearms is in the constitution is exactly for the reasons you stated. It was a way of citizens to protect themselves in case of invasion. But, 200 hundred years later, the same logic clearly does not apply. But, the law stayed in tact.

So true.

19 shooting in the last 9 years!? Cool.

The majority wants to have the right to own guns, so let them have it. Let them protect themselves, let them feel save because they have a gun at home, just for the case of someone wanting to rob them.

Useless.

 

[bhosu]

well first the menthal health of a person should be checked properly before they can get a gun
a ban would not solve the problem but in some cases if it is harder to buy a gun the guy will have time 2 cool down and not go through with the killing.he might have the time 2 think twice about it or have a change of heart or whatever
in some cases if someone would just take the time to talk and most importantly listen to these kids maybe they wouldn't do this crazy shit

 

[Sebastian]

well first the menthal health of a person should be checked properly before they can get a gun

Doesnt work. No way this would make anything better. Just for example: When someone buys a gun, hes "healthy" but later on he turns crazy.lol

 

[bhosu]

Doesnt work. No way this would make anything better. Just for example: When someone buys a gun, hes "healthy" but later on he turns crazy.lol

it would if the guy is a schizophrenic or something like that and would probably shoot grandma with the gun

 

[Sebastian]

Please, i dont think we need to explain why it doesnt work (even though i tried to do it).

 

[PuffnScruff]

So true.

19 shooting in the last 9 years!? Cool.

The majority wants to have the right to own guns, so let them have it. Let them protect themselves, let them feel save because they have a gun at home, just for the case of someone wanting to rob them.
Useless.

whats wrong with that? the law enforcement in my country is more of clean up crew for after the fact. they do not have an obligation to protect individuals. the courts have made rulings on this. it is the responsibility of the idividual to protect themself and their family.


95% of the time police arrive too late to prevent a crime or arrest the suspect.
-Witkin, Gordon, Guttman, Monika and Lenzy, Tracy. “This is 911 ... please hold.” U.S. News & World Report,
June 17, 1998

"The reason the right to carry firearms is in the constitution is exactly for the reasons you stated. It was a way of citizens to protect themselves in case of invasion. But, 200 hundred years later, the same logic clearly does not apply. But, the law stayed in tact."
yes that is true. but look at the hypothectical i posted. is it really that hard to think that with many nations that hate this country such as, russia, north korea, china, venezuela maybe forming together and invading this country one day in the future? venezuela is one of the biggest arms purchasers in the world and china keeps building a massive military, russia is not exactly our friends.

i dont find it that hard to believe it could happen one day.

 

[Sebastian]

Dont bother, noone is gonna invade your country anytime soon.

Jokerman (i know you are reading the thread), im sure you have some statistics about the crime rate in America and, lets say, Europe, dont you?

 

[PuffnScruff]

Dont bother, noone is gonna invade your country anytime soon.

Jokerman (i know you are reading the thread), im sure you have some statistics about the crime rate in America and, lets say, Europe, dont you?

people also said planes would never be flown into buidlings.

i would much rather be safe than sorry and look back after the fact and say "oh man, if only i had some way of protecting myself. oh well, communism here i come!"

 

[Kareem]

Why the hell everyone always focus on the guns? So you think that if guns were banned this type a shit wouldn't happen? Please theres a million other ways to kill each other. Guns aren't the problem. Guns are easily accessible? Yeah an so are explosives an materials to make explosives, So i guess we should ban, guns, fertilizer, tooth picks, butter knives, sticks, and anything else that can be used to mass murder an then lets all depend on the good ole government to protect an serve us right?

Banning guns doesn't fix the problem, ban em they'll move underground then only the criminals will be armed. People like this guy are bound an determined to carry out their mission, had he not been able to get a gun would it have stopped him? No he would found some other way to do what he wanted. Don't blame guns or the NRA blame society, blame legislature for not making tougher sentences for those who use deadly weapons to commit crimes, fuck it blame Imus! some of y'all have this fantasy that if we banned guns then we'd all be dancing around a bon fire in our draws singing koom bye ah an holding hands. peace