Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero
- Thread starter Jokerman
- Start date
When I saw this thread, I assumed there would be significant jingoist uproar. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that isn't really the case.
I think we all understand the trepidation here. But it's important to try to be objective. Does the U.S. want to be a country that gets the willies every time a mosque goes up anywhere?
I realize that I would have to be blind to ignore the cancer of militant Islam spreading throughout the world, but I would also be remiss to ignore the headstones at Arlington National Cemetery with crescent moons over the soldiers' names. Muslims fight and die for America all the time, so obviously to measure any Muslim by the crimes of someone he never met is the narrowest form of idiocy.
Also, why should militant Islamists be able to change the way Americans think about America? The Trade Center falls and we forget what we're about? I remember hearing an awful lot of bluster about religious freedom in school. There are certain principles on which this country is based that should never be compromised. Although it may feel like it to some, this isn't an insult to American values, but a dramatic and powerful gesture to the tolerance America claims to value so deeply.
To object to this mosque going up is 100% un-American.
I think we all understand the trepidation here. But it's important to try to be objective. Does the U.S. want to be a country that gets the willies every time a mosque goes up anywhere?
I realize that I would have to be blind to ignore the cancer of militant Islam spreading throughout the world, but I would also be remiss to ignore the headstones at Arlington National Cemetery with crescent moons over the soldiers' names. Muslims fight and die for America all the time, so obviously to measure any Muslim by the crimes of someone he never met is the narrowest form of idiocy.
Also, why should militant Islamists be able to change the way Americans think about America? The Trade Center falls and we forget what we're about? I remember hearing an awful lot of bluster about religious freedom in school. There are certain principles on which this country is based that should never be compromised. Although it may feel like it to some, this isn't an insult to American values, but a dramatic and powerful gesture to the tolerance America claims to value so deeply.
To object to this mosque going up is 100% un-American.
But a mosque at ground zero is not just anywhere. It has huge political and cultural significance. It's a claim of victory, as they always put up mosques at the site of their conquests. And this one is supposed to be the biggest one in the US. How about a Jewish community center with a synagogue in the West Bank?
Why is this a Muslim Community Center, anyway? Is there a large muslim community in that neighborhood? Why can't this just be a community center that muslims as well as anyone who wants goes to?
Why is this a Muslim Community Center, anyway? Is there a large muslim community in that neighborhood? Why can't this just be a community center that muslims as well as anyone who wants goes to?
I'm now at work listening this radio station, and Tarek Fatah (Tarek Fatah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is speaking about the issue. He's the founder of the Muslim Canadian Congress, and an author. In a nutshell, he claims that the mosque is not being built in good faith, he says that it's going to cost around 100 MIL$ in which most of the money does not come from donations, but from the Arab countries, and their religious leaders. He also said, it's completely insane to build something right there on sacred grounds for Americans, it's opening up a whole new can of worms and it would just strain even more the relation between Muslims and Americans. He was then asked what would the rest of the Arab/Muslim world think if the Mosque was actually built? He said that they'd be laughing at Americans, claiming how stupid are they are to allow it to be built in such a place.
Anyways, that's just some of the things he said and questions he answered. If you guys want to listen to the interview, it should be on CJAD.com by the end of the day. Just look under Tommy Schnurmacker's page.
Anyways, that's just some of the things he said and questions he answered. If you guys want to listen to the interview, it should be on CJAD.com by the end of the day. Just look under Tommy Schnurmacker's page.
I'm completely against swimming pools, they should be stricken from this earth, find a river or a lake or even the ocean but swimming pools are unnecessary.
Anywho, as long as they arn't using it to incite extremists then there is nothing wrong with it and New Yorkers should get over it. It may sound insensitive but it's the reality. A small minority of people who believe in a similar religion did a horrible thing, but outcasting the entire religion because of it is only going to create more hatred and violence.
Anywho, as long as they arn't using it to incite extremists then there is nothing wrong with it and New Yorkers should get over it. It may sound insensitive but it's the reality. A small minority of people who believe in a similar religion did a horrible thing, but outcasting the entire religion because of it is only going to create more hatred and violence.
I have to say: I'm so intrigued by the irony of the many Americans in a total uproar over this proposed deal. It matches poignantly with the many of others whom think the ensuing campaign (generated by Republicans and ordinary citizens of all faiths) against the Ground Zero mosque, and the Islamophobic sentiment that follows, to be so repugnant and degenerative.
I would think the idea at first-hand to be a bit insane and completely ballsy. But maybe that is what makes it good. Enough time has elapsed now and perhaps we are at the point, or can bring ourselves to the point where we can work on building this 'interfaith tolerance and respect' that the Cordoba initiative sets as a goal.
I do not think the group has sinister goals in mind. In point of fact, I have read that the group's chairman, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, has 'rejected Islamic triumphalism over Christians and Jews,' and has proposed to 'reclaim Islam from violent radicals such as Osama bin Laden..."
The problem of America is our blind-sight and prejudice: even before the attacks on the Towers we did not have a clear understanding or know two-shits about Islam and/ or radical extremists. For some reason the two (Islam and radical extremists) are linked together now in our minds as a collective and we cannot see them apart. Maybe this Mosque could be a first-step towards that learning.
I would think the idea at first-hand to be a bit insane and completely ballsy. But maybe that is what makes it good. Enough time has elapsed now and perhaps we are at the point, or can bring ourselves to the point where we can work on building this 'interfaith tolerance and respect' that the Cordoba initiative sets as a goal.
I do not think the group has sinister goals in mind. In point of fact, I have read that the group's chairman, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, has 'rejected Islamic triumphalism over Christians and Jews,' and has proposed to 'reclaim Islam from violent radicals such as Osama bin Laden..."
The problem of America is our blind-sight and prejudice: even before the attacks on the Towers we did not have a clear understanding or know two-shits about Islam and/ or radical extremists. For some reason the two (Islam and radical extremists) are linked together now in our minds as a collective and we cannot see them apart. Maybe this Mosque could be a first-step towards that learning.
That's definitely true. Although, especially in the context of Islamic extremism, it's easy to see that crazy people of any ethnicity will do anything for their beliefs. People are the fixed element here. The variable is belief itself, or the extent to which someone believes in anything.
If a stranger on the street told me I had an hour to live, it wouldn't affect me. But if for whatever reason I actually believed that I had an hour to live, I'd radically change the agenda of my day from whatever it was--buying beer, listening to the Ghostbusters II soundtrack?--to frantically calling my loved ones and getting my affairs in order. What matters is the extent to which I actually believe any given notion.
People can be depended on to fight tooth and nail for whatever ridiculous thing they believe. To help solve this problem, it's important not to lie to children about wonderful men in showercaps who live in the sky.*
*For some reason, as a child, I always imagined God as a giant human-shaped cloud who wore a giant showercap.
If a stranger on the street told me I had an hour to live, it wouldn't affect me. But if for whatever reason I actually believed that I had an hour to live, I'd radically change the agenda of my day from whatever it was--buying beer, listening to the Ghostbusters II soundtrack?--to frantically calling my loved ones and getting my affairs in order. What matters is the extent to which I actually believe any given notion.
People can be depended on to fight tooth and nail for whatever ridiculous thing they believe. To help solve this problem, it's important not to lie to children about wonderful men in showercaps who live in the sky.*
*For some reason, as a child, I always imagined God as a giant human-shaped cloud who wore a giant showercap.
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