Your conclusion on God's existence

[W210]

Because if god, the ultimate biologist, made all the creatures in the world, he screwed up. It also supports evolution, where the two animals still have biological similarities to produce offspring, and some are so similar they can have fertile young (most bears for example).

Still talking about cavefish:
First off God didnt screw up, you probably could have made the same argument about the human appendix, a few years ago. But we now know that it plays a part in the infant development. So maybe the cave fish are the same. Do we know if the eyes form in the egg, or is the fish a livebearer, either way the eyes still may form.
Second it wouldnt support evolution at all, it would support mutation. Look up info on this fish to find out more or I can post it when I get home tonight.


And you need to elaborate on the mixed breed stuff, that doesnt make sense how evolutionist could possibly twist that to support their ideas.

 

[Glockmatic]

First off God didnt screw up, you probably could have made the same argument about the human appendix, a few years ago. But we now know that it plays a part in the infant development.

the human appendix grows the most during childhood, we don't know it helps during infant development.

Second it wouldnt support evolution at all, it would support mutation.

mutations are the driving force of evolution

And you need to elaborate on the mixed breed stuff, that doesnt make sense how evolutionist could possibly twist that to support their ideas.

read up on it, it makes sense

 

[W210]

the human appendix grows the most during childhood, we don't know it helps during infant development.

From wikpedia: The appendix serves an important role in the fetus and in young adults. Endocrine cells appear in the appendix of the human fetus at around the 11th week of development. These endocrine cells of the fetal appendix have been shown to produce various biogenic amines and peptide hormones, compounds that assist with various biological control (homeostatic) mechanisms

mutations are the driving force of evolution

How do we know this to be true?? Considering they are completely different. Do I need to explain how a mutation involves an already present life, this doesnt explain a species jumping to another. So like I said how do we know that mutations are the driving force, since evolution has never been witnessed, or proven.

read up on it, it makes sense

To who? It probably makes about as much sense as a horse evolving into a whale.

 

[Glockmatic]

From wikpedia: The appendix serves an important role in the fetus and in young adults. Endocrine cells appear in the appendix of the human fetus at around the 11th week of development. These endocrine cells of the fetal appendix have been shown to produce various biogenic amines and peptide hormones, compounds that assist with various biological control (homeostatic) mechanisms

alright you're right with that one. But there are many vestigial organs in the human body. Goosebumps, wisdom teeth, tailbone and the ear muscles are examples.

How do we know this to be true?? Considering they are completely different. Do I need to explain how a mutation involves an already present life, this doesnt explain a species jumping to another. So like I said how do we know that mutations are the driving force, since evolution has never been witnessed, or proven.

Mutations are a change in DNA, evolution is a change in DNA. If that mutation is superior to the original DNA and can spread its DNA it can create a new species. The blind cave fish had a mutation where the eyes didn't grow, so it did not need energy to maintain those eyes allowing the fish to live longer because food is scarce in the caves. Virus' mutate all the time, thats why we need to create stronger medicines to fight them off.

To who? It probably makes about as much sense as a horse evolving into a whale.

Explain why whales have hind legs then. Now onto hybrids...

Hybrids can only happen to animals in the same genus (family, like Ursine aka bears) because their genes are similar. When one animal has more chromosomes, horse with 64 for example, than another animal, donkey with 63 for example, the offspring is usually sterile. This is called Haldane's rule, its not univeral (a male donkey mating with a female horse can produce fertile offspring), but it usually is right.

How does it support evolution? There would be no natural hybrids if there wasn't similar DNA in a genus, some animals evolved in similar paths so they bear similar dna, while other animals went the other way so they cannot reproduce with them, like a tiger mating with a dog would produce nothing. Sometimes hybrids create a viable species, like the European Red Deer and the Chinese Sika Deer hybrids which threaten native European Red Deer populations.

 

[W210]

alright you're right with that one. But there are many vestigial organs in the human body. Goosebumps, wisdom teeth, tailbone and the ear muscles are examples.

Does this prove that we evolved, or just that science just hasnt figured out their purposes yet, like the appendix??

Mutations are a change in DNA, evolution is a change in DNA. If that mutation is superior to the original DNA and can spread its DNA it can create a new species. The blind cave fish had a mutation where the eyes didn't grow, so it did not need energy to maintain those eyes allowing the fish to live longer because food is scarce in the caves. Virus' mutate all the time, thats why we need to create stronger medicines to fight them off.

How do we know that a new species can be created??? Has this ever been witnessed. And the blind cave fish cannont help evolution because evolution by definition is A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form, not the other way. This doesnt help explain how life started from seawater.

Explain why whales have hind legs then. Now onto hybrids...

Have you ever seen a whale with legs?? or maybe just fins. Besides that these "legs" as you call them are different in the male and female whales. They are not useless at all, but help penis erection in the males and vaginal contraction in the females.

Hybrids can only happen to animals in the same genus (family, like Ursine aka bears) because their genes are similar. When one animal has more chromosomes, horse with 64 for example, than another animal, donkey with 63 for example, the offspring is usually sterile. This is called Haldane's rule, its not univeral (a male donkey mating with a female horse can produce fertile offspring), but it usually is right.


How does it support evolution? There would be no natural hybrids if there wasn't similar DNA in a genus, some animals evolved in similar paths so they bear similar dna, while other animals went the other way so they cannot reproduce with them, like a tiger mating with a dog would produce nothing. Sometimes hybrids create a viable species, like the European Red Deer and the Chinese Sika Deer hybrids which threaten native European Red Deer populations.

The evolutionist looks at the data and says that similarity is proof of common ancestry. The creationist, on the other hand, examines the exact same data and suggests that similarity is evidence of creation according to a common design. In essence, a stalemate exists.

 

[Glockmatic]

Does this prove that we evolved, or just that science just hasnt figured out their purposes yet, like the appendix??

Monkeys have the same muscle in their ears and they use them to move their ears, we cannot. Wisdom teeth were useful when we had wider jaws, our jaws became smaller so there is no more room for wisdom teeth. Goosebumps made our hair stand out, its been known for awhile, since we don't have a thick layer of hair on our skin it has no use. Our tailbone has the nerves to support a tail, and a tail developes in early stages of human embryos.

How do we know that a new species can be created??? Has this ever been witnessed.

With virus' they have witnessed evolution, the evolution of avian flu to human-transmitted flu almost happened around the world but it hasn't yet.

And the blind cave fish cannont help evolution because evolution by definition is A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form, not the other way. This doesnt help explain how life started from seawater.

Losing eyes and skin pigment when you're in an enviroment that has very little food and no light IS a better form. There is no need to maintain the eyes or colour skin with protein, so it can survive longer.

Have you ever seen a whale with legs?? or maybe just fins. Besides that these "legs" as you call them are different in the male and female whales. They are not useless at all, but help penis erection in the males and vaginal contraction in the females.

the Baleen Whale skeleton with hind legs, some whale hind legs have shown to have toes as well.

humpback whale femur, tibia, tarsus, and metatarsa. The humpback was captured by a canadian whaling ship in Vancouver British Columbia in july 1919 with 2 bones covered in blubber and skin sticking out from the sides of the whale.

Also dolphin embryos develope hind legs

 

[W210]

Monkeys have the same muscle in their ears and they use them to move their ears, we cannot. Wisdom teeth were useful when we had wider jaws, our jaws became smaller so there is no more room for wisdom teeth. Goosebumps made our hair stand out, its been known for awhile, since we don't have a thick layer of hair on our skin it has no use. Our tailbone has the nerves to support a tail, and a tail developes in early stages of human embryos.

In 1999 the list of vestigal organs went to zero, so evolutionists messed with the definition to agree with their beliefs, but according to the older more well known definition, there are zero

With virus' they have witnessed evolution, the evolution of avian flu to human-transmitted flu almost happened around the world but it hasn't yet.

I hasnt happend yet, because a few people have got sick from it, it hasnt mutated, it is not transferrable between humans.

Losing eyes and skin pigment when you're in an enviroment that has very little food and no light IS a better form. There is no need to maintain the eyes or colour skin with protein, so it can survive longer.

No because it is dealing with somthing that was already present, no new information is created.

the Baleen Whale skeleton with hind legs, some whale hind legs have shown to have toes as well.

humpback whale femur, tibia, tarsus, and metatarsa. The humpback was captured by a canadian whaling ship in Vancouver British Columbia in july 1919 with 2 bones covered in blubber and skin sticking out from the sides of the whale.

Also dolphin embryos develope hind legs

Ill do some more looking on this but, why are we using whale bones from that long ago to support this, can it not be duplicated with the whales we have now? This doesnt prove anything, babies are born with abnormalities somtimes, but I dont think that supports evolution either.

 

[Duke]

In 1999 the list of vestigal organs went to zero, so evolutionists messed with the definition to agree with their beliefs, but according to the older more well known definition, there are zero





I hasnt happend yet, because a few people have got sick from it, it hasnt mutated, it is not transferrable between humans.



No because it is dealing with somthing that was already present, no new information is created.




Ill do some more looking on this but, why are we using whale bones from that long ago to support this, can it not be duplicated with the whales we have now? This doesnt prove anything, babies are born with abnormalities somtimes, but I dont think that supports evolution either.

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/mpm/mpm_whale_limb.html


Glockmatic, man, I can't believe you can still stomach this.

 

[Glockmatic]

In 1999 the list of vestigal organs went to zero, so evolutionists messed with the definition to agree with their beliefs, but according to the older more well known definition, there are zero

post the "older more well known definition"

I hasnt happend yet, because a few people have got sick from it, it hasnt mutated, it is not transferrable between humans.

...thats what i said. If it did mutate it would be an evolved version of the H5N1 virus

No because it is dealing with somthing that was already present, no new information is created.

it's adaption

Ill do some more looking on this but, why are we using whale bones from that long ago to support this, can it not be duplicated with the whales we have now? This doesnt prove anything, babies are born with abnormalities somtimes, but I dont think that supports evolution either.

Because it is the only whale that has been captured with leg bones sticking OUT of its body, and since whales are a protected species we can't just go out and capture more of them.

Glockmatic, man, I can't believe you can still stomach this.

Got a few weeks till college starts, need something to do

 

[W210]

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/mpm/mpm_whale_limb.html


Glockmatic, man, I can't believe you can still stomach this.

Ha, can you post a more biased site. I can do my own later if you would like.

 

[W210]

post the "older more well known definition"

In a nutshell it is a organ not used. Now they say they arent used very much.

...thats what i said. If it did mutate it would be an evolved version of the H5N1 virus

So nothing evolved, and what are we talking about.

it's adaption

Not evolution

Because it is the only whale that has been captured with leg bones sticking OUT of its body, and since whales are a protected species we can't just go out and capture more of them.

Whaling is still a huge industry, that is a lame excuse

 

[Glockmatic]

In a nutshell it is a organ not used. Now they say they arent used very much.

No, the meaning is and always was a vestigial organ is an organ that had a use but not anymore.

So nothing evolved, and what are we talking about.

The virus evolved in birds

Genetic analyses of samples from avian influenza patients may suggest that new strains of the virus are developing in northern Vietnam. The samples, analyzed by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, were compared with samples taken earlier this year, and scientists found several differences. What do the changes mean? Without further testing, scientists are unsure. A worrisome sign is that one of the samples was resistant to oseltamivir, the drug used as a first defense against the virus. In another development, WHO scientists concluded that human-to-human transmission of the virus may be more common than they previously thought. – YaleGlobal

My example was that if the avian flu jumped to humans it would have to evolve to do that, but it hasn't evolved to that yet. Its just a matter of time before it does.

Not evolution

adaption is evolution

Whaling is still a huge industry, that is a lame excuse

humpback whales (which the bones were taken from) are a protected species since the 60s.

 

[Glockmatic]

Ha, can you post a more biased site. I can do my own later if you would like.

you already do. You get all your arguments from Answers in Genesis or other creationist websites

 

[W210]

you already do. You get all your arguments from Answers in Genesis or other creationist websites

Actually alot of what I argue, is just that, me arguing.I dont have time to look up everything we argue about, but I do with some things that Im not familiar with. So heres a copy/paste.

Under the backbone of Basilosaurus and the sperm whale, there are small bones independent of it. National Geographic claims these to be vestigial legs. Yet that same magazine mentions that these bones actually had another function. In Basilosaurus, these bones ‘functioned as copulary guides’ and in sperm whales ‘[act] as an anchor for the muscles of the genitalia.’[6] To describe these bones, which actually carry out important functions, as ‘vestigial organs’ is nothing but Darwinistic prejudice.

 

[W210]

No, the meaning is and always was a vestigial organ is an organ that had a use but not anymore.

They still use the term even though we now know there is no such thing on the human body. I remember you mentioning goose bumps, and goose bumps are caused my muscle contractions that force oil into the hair follicle and onto the skin. This traps air around the surface of the skin which adds insulation.

The virus evolved in birds

Do we know this for fact?

My example was that if the avian flu jumped to humans it would have to evolve to do that, but it hasn't evolved to that yet. Its just a matter of time before it does.

Dont hold your breath.

adaption is evolution

Adaption:
The act or process of adapting.
The state of being adapted.

Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.
A composition that has been recast into a new form: The play is an adaptation of a short novel.
Biology An alteration or adjustment in structure or habits, often hereditary, by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.
Physiology The responsive adjustment of a sense organ, such as the eye, to varying conditions, such as light intensity.
Change in behavior of a person or group in response to new or modified surroundings.


Evolution: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
The process of developing.
Gradual development.

Biology
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
Mathematics The extraction of a root of a quantity.







They are different. Especially in the definition of evolution as you are using it.

 

[Glockmatic]

They still use the term even though we now know there is no such thing on the human body. I remember you mentioning goose bumps, and goose bumps are caused my muscle contractions that force oil into the hair follicle and onto the skin. This traps air around the surface of the skin which adds insulation.

It would only add insulation if we had thick hair on our skin. It also makes animals seem larger when frightened or stress like chimps, mice and cats.

Do we know this for fact?

look at the quote i posted. The virus brought back to the US from vietnam had changed from earlier versions.

Dont hold your breath.

you don't think the virus will evolve and infect humans? History says otherwise

Adaption:
The act or process of adapting.
The state of being adapted.

Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.
A composition that has been recast into a new form: The play is an adaptation of a short novel.
Biology An alteration or adjustment in structure or habits, often hereditary, by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.
Physiology The responsive adjustment of a sense organ, such as the eye, to varying conditions, such as light intensity.
Change in behavior of a person or group in response to new or modified surroundings.


Evolution: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
The process of developing.
Gradual development.

Biology
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
Mathematics The extraction of a root of a quantity.



They are different. Especially in the definition of evolution as you are using it.

this proves you don't know what evolution is. If you think evolution is a definition in a dictionary you are far far far from correct

 

[Preach]

my conclusion is he doesn't exist. i feel no need, however, to venture that one any deeper than i already have.

 

[Duke]

Adaptation = evolution. =/ Evolution is the advancement of species based on adaptation to the environment. The notion of looking up the different definitions of "evolution" and "adaptation", seeing that they are different (duh) and then happily claiming adaptation has nothing to do with evolution is just mildly hilarious. But only just, it's also slightly worrying how "you people" (creationists) come up with your arguments.

And lol @ goose bumps adding insulation. As if those tiny leftover hairs from our chimp days would actually keep us from going cold.

We don't need our nose either. That's gonna be a full blown not-needed body part in a few thousand years.

 

[W210]

It would only add insulation if we had thick hair on our skin. It also makes animals seem larger when frightened or stress like chimps, mice and cats.

Oh brother.

look at the quote i posted. The virus brought back to the US from vietnam had changed from earlier versions.

Earlier versions? Is it a similar virus, or is it the same virus only evolved?

you don't think the virus will evolve and infect humans? History says otherwise

OK.

this proves you don't know what evolution is. If you think evolution is a definition in a dictionary you are far far far from correct

Well go take up the "adaptation and evolution are the same thing", misunderstanding up with webster.

 

[W210]

Adaptation = evolution. =/ Evolution is the advancement of species based on adaptation to the environment. The notion of looking up the different definitions of "evolution" and "adaptation", seeing that they are different (duh) and then happily claiming adaptation has nothing to do with evolution is just mildly hilarious. But only just, it's also slightly worrying how "you people" (creationists) come up with your arguments.

Duh, what was I thinking of course your guys definition of those words are correct, I was mistaken to consult the english language.
And I didnt say they didnt have anything to do with each other, I said they are not the same thing. Coyotes are adapting to live in cities in some areas, by where they live and find food. If they are evolving maybe we should be on the lookout for the coyote with a debit card for an arm.

And lol @ goose bumps adding insulation. As if those tiny leftover hairs from our chimp days would actually keep us from going cold.

We don't need our nose either. That's gonna be a full blown not-needed body part in a few thousand years.

And I suppose a brain freeze is a leftover responce from us eating to much in the ice age. Give me a break.
And I never said anything about not needing a nose.