World-Class English Football Players

[Illuminattile]

I always wonder how football fans outside of the UK view English players. Whenever world class players are discussed, we always mention exciting, cultured players who possess bucket-loads of flair and have exotic Italian or Spanish names. "Wayne Rooney" is the most unexotic name I've ever heard, and I just can't imagine a Brazilian soccer fan on the beaches of Rio talking about him.

So my question to non-British footie fans is; When you're discussing world class players, which (if any) English players get mentioned?

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

My opinion is invalid because I'm within the UK, but I'd like to state there is a good reason why they won't be talking about Rooney on the beaches of Rio - he ain't that good.

The English like to think he's the best youngster in the world, when he's not even the best youngster in the Manchester United team!

 

[Illuminattile]

My opinion is invalid because I'm within the UK, but I'd like to state there is a good reason why they won't be talking about Rooney on the beaches of Rio - he ain't that good.

The English like to think he's the best youngster in the world, when he's not even the best youngster in the Manchester United team!

Did you see his goal today?

 

[Bachaveli]

Yea they dont view them as world class players. like here in states when people start talkin bout the soccer and world class players they be talkin bout the Ronaldinios's and Ronaldo's and the ones that play nice soccer. like you can play soccer ordinarly and win games n shit like just pass, pass, pass and shoot but when you play nice and fancy and shit thats what attracts peoples so then they will remember him who was all fancy and shit. like people think Rooney is a good player and everything but hes a english dude, its like like it or not he dont get respect, thats how i see it. only english dude gets respect here is beckham but others they get respect and they good and all but they dont get respect on level as ronaldinio's and ronaldo's get i think its a racial thing to, like some people think english dudes have no heart n shit, like they so white and shit, they play hard but they still dont have that natural beauty. its like people here dont like 'wanna be a soccer players' they like ones with the natural talent and the ones who you can see from the get go that god has given him natural talent.

i mean i might be wrong but i just dont see people talkin bout 'oh did you see that Rooney's or Owen's move last night'. i just think people dislike or not attracted to like i said 'wanna be a soccer player' type a players.

like i said i could be wrong and misjudging things, im lil tired n shit.

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

You know, when people say Rooney isn't that good, it makes me wonder...he scored 4 goals in Euro 2004, more than Henry in the same amount of games, and Henry is considered world class. Now you could say well Rooney doesn't score many in the league, well Rooney plays mostly on the right hand side not his preferred striker role.

Rooney is overated when compared to Pele and Marradonna, but to be honest hes one of the best young talents in the world.

How many other young players score a hatrick on their debut in the CL.

Rooney if guided the right way will become the best player in the world in a few years time.

Also Rooney has been talked about across the world, but most likely people across the world would call Beckham and Owen as world class players.

Calcuo, whos the best young player at Man Utd? Ronaldo? even though Ronaldo is my favourite player currently at Man Utd, he can't change the game completly like Rooney can.

 

[DutchPac2]

In Holland after the draw against England in february when we played with a b-team (no Robben, Makaay, RvN, Stam, Vd meyde etc.) everyone was disappointed with the level of the English players. Although i think in Holland we've got much respect 4 the premier league and some English players.
I think the most respected are: Lampard, Rooney, Terry, Joe Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole.
The less respected are: David James, the Nevilles, Smith (4 his cards), Bowyer (same reason) and maybe Gerrard, few years ago he stole some cars or something and I think that why he's called a criminal sometimes. I personally think he is great player. Smart thing 2 do 2 make him captain.
Football is the biggest sport here, there are a few programs on national television where football is discussed 4 1 or 2 ours a day. The premierleague is the competion that is after the Dutch one the most talked about comp. I think a lot of people are discusted about THE PERSON Mourinho. He is arrogant and Dutch people don't like that kind of people. It's our nature I think

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Yeah England don't play with desire in friendlies.

 

[DutchPac2]

Heard that complain here 2. But now great players like Seedorf, Stam, Kluivert, Bergkamp, Van de Meyden etc. don't play anymore 4 Holland (Influence of Van Basten mostly) other players want 2 prove themselves. And that helps a lot.

 

[Illuminattile]

Yea they dont view them as world class players. like here in states when people start talkin bout the soccer and world class players they be talkin bout the Ronaldinios's and Ronaldo's and the ones that play nice soccer.

The England squad doesn't have many players with a bag of tricks, but Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard and Cole score some terrific goals. And if/when Shaun Wright-Philips breaks into the first team, things might change.

only english dude gets respect here is beckham but others they get respect and they good and all but they dont get respect on level as ronaldinio's and ronaldo's get

i think its a racial thing to, like some people think english dudes have no heart n shit, like they so white and shit, they play hard but they still dont have that natural beauty.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A racial thing? You can't be telling me there are no world-class white football players? Zinedine Zidane? No heart? If English players have nothing else, they have heart.

its like people here dont like 'wanna be a soccer players' they like ones with the natural talent and the ones who you can see from the get go that god has given him natural talent.

Well that's to be expected from a country who aren't as interested in football as the rest of the world. That's probably why the only players who get respect are those who perform step-overs and drag-backs and things of that nature.

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

True about the heart thing, look at Beckhams performance Vs Greece in the WC qualifier. Beckham was pretty much playing alone and scored a last minute free kick to make it to the WC automatically.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Illuminattile, I seen Rooney's goal, appreciated the talent invovled & then went back to doing what I was doing.

ThUg $TyLe, Rooney is not THAT good. The only thing you could argue is what my perception of 'THAT good' is & when I tell you it's Maradona & Van Basten & co, then you have to accept what I say as the truth. Until he's THAT good, they won't be talking about him on the beaches of Rio.

Sure, he scored goals at Euro 2004 - whoopte-fucking-doo.

He scored a hat-trick? And....? Manchester United were a far superior side to Fenerbache.

Besides Euro 2004, actually in spite of Euro 2004, the reason Rooney is talked about across the world is because of the English media hyping him up & ramming his name & skill down people's throat.

And yeah, Cristiano Ronaldo is a superior player to Rooney. Don't talk about changing the game, if that's the criteria for being exceptional, hand the award to Howard or Carroll because they have a more drastic influence on the outcome of a match. Cristiano is simply a more consitant player who is lethally effective in his position. Rooney has a lot of abilities that Ronaldo doesn't - moreso than would be the case vice versa - but these abilities fail to make him anymore effective.

And Henry is a superior striker to Rooney. Forget goal ratios (on which Henry murders Rooney but isn't a fair comparison) just look at Henry's pace, vision, flair & finishing ability. Then look at Rooney's pace (good), vision(good for his age), flair (Ok, but brute strength is really his forte) & finishing (hot & cold but only occasionally clinical).

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Illuminattile, I seen Rooney's goal, appreciated the talent invovled & then went back to doing what I was doing.

ThUg $TyLe, Rooney is not THAT good. The only thing you could argue is what my perception of 'THAT good' is & when I tell you it's Maradona & Van Basten & co, then you have to accept what I say as the truth. Until he's THAT good, they won't be talking about him on the beaches of Rio.

Sure, he scored goals at Euro 2004 - whoopte-fucking-doo.

He scored a hat-trick? And....? Manchester United were a far superior side to Fenerbache.

Besides Euro 2004, actually in spite of Euro 2004, the reason Rooney is talked about across the world is because of the English media hyping him up & ramming his name & skill down people's throat.

And yeah, Cristiano Ronaldo is a superior player to Rooney. Don't talk about changing the game, if that's the criteria for being exceptional, hand the award to Howard or Carroll because they have a more drastic influence on the outcome of a match. Cristiano is simply a more consitant player who is lethally effective in his position. Rooney has a lot of abilities that Ronaldo doesn't - moreso than would be the case vice versa - but these abilities fail to make him anymore effective.

And Henry is a superior striker to Rooney. Forget goal ratios (on which Henry murders Rooney but isn't a fair comparison) just look at Henry's pace, vision, flair & finishing ability. Then look at Rooney's pace (good), vision(good for his age), flair (Ok, but brute strength is really his forte) & finishing (hot & cold but only occasionally clinical).

Changing the game as for the better of your team, not the worse, i thought that was obvious, but anyway Ronaldo is hardly a consistant player, Ronaldo has had over 80 shots for Man utd this season and scored like 3, He constantly takes his time to get in a goddamn cross, he has calmed down on the stepovers and can stay on his feet for more than 5 minutes, but he constantly frustrates his team mates. He hasnt matured fully yet, when he does then he will be probably the next Figo as he has been called.

Scoring 4 goals at Euro 2004 is pretty exceptional.

Yep Fenerbache are not much of a match up against Man Utd, but if that was the case, shouldn't Van Nistelrooy scored a hatrick also?

Henry is a better player, Rooney hasn't reached his peak yet, and is still young, so he will be consistantly inconsistant, but is still one hell of a player.

 

[Sebastian]

world-class english players:

Lampard (in my opinion the best)
Gerrard
Terry

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

I wasn't really meaning consistant as in he consistant in scoring, just he consistantly has a profound effect on the game - that could be from scoring, assisting, keeping two defenders locked down, whatever.

Remind me of the quality opposition against which Rooney scored his goals & tell me of how a lesser striker couldn't have scored these goals.

Van Nistelrooy? The man has had injury problems but that aside, please don't bring his name into it again. He is the greatest goalscorer in CL history & you're going to prop up an argument for Rooney by talking about Ruud taking a night off? Reminds me of the commentators during the match who's reaction to Rooney almost scoring his 3rd - "And Van Nistelrooy's never scored a hat-trick in the CL but Waaaaayne Rooney might do it on his debut"....& then, after he got it, "It's ROONEY!! Van Nistelrooy's NEVER scored a hat-trick in the CL!!!".....and I sat there like, wtf? Nistelrooy's record shits on Rooney & they're jumping on his dick - don't make the same mistake.

Never once did I dispute that Rooney is a good player with bags of potential....I just don't like the English getting an erection at the mention of some "could-be's" name.

The English made people hate Michael Owen & they're doing the exact same thing with Rooney.

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

I wasn't really meaning consistant as in he consistant in scoring, just he consistantly has a profound effect on the game - that could be from scoring, assisting, keeping two defenders locked down, whatever.

Remind me of the quality opposition against which Rooney scored his goals & tell me of how a lesser striker couldn't have scored these goals.

Van Nistelrooy? The man has had injury problems but that aside, please don't bring his name into it again. He is the greatest goalscorer in CL history & you're going to prop up an argument for Rooney by talking about Ruud taking a night off? Reminds me of the commentators during the match who's reaction to Rooney almost scoring his 3rd - "And Van Nistelrooy's never scored a hat-trick in the CL but Waaaaayne Rooney might do it on his debut"....& then, after he got it, "It's ROONEY!! Van Nistelrooy's NEVER scored a hat-trick in the CL!!!".....and I sat there like, wtf? Nistelrooy's record shits on Rooney & they're jumping on his dick - don't make the same mistake.

Never once did I dispute that Rooney is a good player with bags of potential....I just don't like the English getting an erection at the mention of some "could-be's" name.

The English made people hate Michael Owen & they're doing the exact same thing with Rooney.

The goals in Euro 2004? Well after taking on Thuram and going all the way before being hacked down by Silevestre he probably would have scored then, but Croatia and Switzerland..did Trezeguet score against these teams , not quality teams, but you can only score against teams you are against, Look at the Portgual game he looked lively and the Portugual defence looked scared until he got injured..and England crippled.

Van Nistelrooy isn't the greatest goal scorer in the CL, that belongs to Raul. Though Van Nistelrooy will probably break that record next season. My point about the Van Nistelrooy inclusion was to show that scoring a hatrick no matter against which team in the CL is pretty goddamn good, and Rooney could of had 5-6 in that game.
Van Nistelrooyis a better striker obviously though.

The commentators jump on anyone's dick, but it was probably with good reason this time, thought they over hype him but he proves himself vs quality teams in the Premiership i.e Liverpool, Arsenal, not Chelsea as he hasn't played against them in the league this season.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

The goals in Euro 2004? Well after taking on Thuram and going all the way before being hacked down by Silevestre he probably would have scored then, but Croatia and Switzerland..did Trezeguet score against these teams , not quality teams, but you can only score against teams you are against, Look at the Portgual game he looked lively and the Portugual defence looked scared until he got injured..and England crippled.

"Almost a goal" doesn't count. And Trezeguet is not the player at hand, is he? For all you know I could consider him an average striker who enver fulfilled what great potential he had.

I do agree though, that you can only score against those you play....but that doesn't give you bragging rights.

Van Nistelrooy isn't the greatest goal scorer in the CL, that belongs to Raul. Though Van Nistelrooy will probably break that record next season. My point about the Van Nistelrooy inclusion was to show that scoring a hatrick no matter against which team in the CL is pretty goddamn good, and Rooney could of had 5-6 in that game.
Van Nistelrooyis a better striker obviously though.

Van Nistelrooy is by far & away the greatest goalscorer in CL history. Everybody knows that Raul has scored the most, but Ruud's goal to game ratio is the best - & that's what really matters, even moreso when you take into account he was at PSV.

If you think Rooney could've had 5 or 6, then that makes him look bad....Fenerbache even worse.

The commentators jump on anyone's dick, but it was probably with good reason this time, thought they over hype him but he proves himself vs quality teams in the Premiership i.e Liverpool, Arsenal, not Chelsea as he hasn't played against them in the league this season.

He proves himself? Until he's scoring 196 goals a game he has not lived up to their hype.

 

[Taliq]

this is a good thread...apart from the rooney debate lol. cud we get more opinions of wot everyone (outside the UK) thinks of english players?

 

[Cooper]

rooneys very talented, but overretaed.,...

terry is world class

 

[2Pax]

A few points to make:

Rio Ferdinand > Terry

C.Ronaldo is good but overrated.

Wayne Rooney is world class, hate it or love it.

 

[Sebastian]

u r a ManU fan, arent u?

no, i dont think Ferdinand is as good as Terry or even better but if u think so, ok