We Israeli Military Reservists REFUSE To Abuse, Starve, Maim And Kill Palestininians

[Morris]

thats funny Morris you fit the typical Zionist reply "your anti semetic" please i have nothing against the jews period, only zionism the belief that your race and only your race have the right to live in that land is facist!

If your definition of Zionism was anywhere near correct, then your comparison to fascism might make a little more sense. Unfortunately for your case, the aims/goals/ideology of Zionism has nothing to do with your claim. The Zionists always accepted the idea of having a peaceful Palestinian state in lands that used to be ancient Israel. Which side do you think consented to the United Nations Partition in 1948?

Hell yes Israel in many ways does teh same things nazi germany did, Hitler didnt immediately start executing the jews when he came to power, he first moved them into ghettos, gave them no rights, forced them into slave labor, an claimed that his race was the supirior an the jews had no rights.

Israel hasn't done anything in your list. Israel did not forcibly expel Palestinian refugees, Israel did not forcibly transfer Palestinians into ghettos. Israel, since it has never been the sovereign governing power of the Palestinians, have not taken away any rights because they had none to give. And Palestinians are not Israelis, so it's not a case of second class citizenship.

Israel is the ojly country on the face of this earth that only gives citizenship to jews only, an you dont see that as facist?????

Funny, you seem to forget that 1.2 million Arabs live in Israel proper and have Israeli citizenship, having lived peacefully with Israeli Jews for the past 60 years. I don't see that as fascist, or as you like to call it, "facist." For someone who styles himself an authority on what is fascist or not, it's humorous to see you spell it wrong a dozen times.

Anyway, you incorrectly suggest that Israel is the only country practicing apartheid, while almost every Arab nation in the Middle East has practiced apartheid in the past century, from Kuwait to Saudi Arabia.

Israel is a democracy? Really? so the arab israelies have the right to vote??

Of course Israeli Arabs can vote. That's what a democracy is, you dunce. Hell, there are even Israeli Arab representatives in the Israeli Knesset (Congress). Those Jews sure do practice a funny form of apartheid!

Building a wall to keep so called "Terrorists" out is far from democractic, i seem to remember another wall that was put up in history an was demanded by the world to be torn down, Berlin ring a bell?

The Berlin Wall was built by the Soviets to keep people from exiting. The security barrier in the West Bank was built by the Israelis to keep militants from entering. This has been explained a countless number of times.

like i said they wanna strike military targets hey fine but as we've seen 80% of the time Israels bombs an missles miss an kill innocents,

Where in the hell did you pull that number out of your ass? Like I've stated over and over, 36% of Palestinian casualties were unarmed noncombatants. The IDF has not yet killed 1,000 Palestinian noncombatants in over 4 years of constant, unrelenting urban zone warfare.

Forget all the Torah, Bible an God's chosen crap for a minute,

You keep bringing up the Bible, as if Israel is ruled by a theocracy. Israel is a Western democracy. Their government is secular. In fact, you seem to have Israel mistaken with the likes of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. Funny, you have done that a lot in this post.

An how is Iran with nukes more of a threat then Israel with nukes? I Dont see muslim countries trying to nuke each other or even trying to get Israel,

First of all, muslim countries have used weapons of mass destruction on each other. And of course, one of those was Iran in the 1980s.

As for why Iran is a threat, one of Iran's top ranking clerics has threatened to preemptively use nuclear weapons on Israel. ( http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm ). Is that convincing enough?

 

[Kareem]

oh my god forgive my spelling Marvis Beacon. Israel hasnt forced any palestinians into refugee camps?? where do yu get your info? ilove israel.com? ya really need to stop watching Cnn morris seriously. why did i keep mentioning the Bible? Because the coomon comeback for christians an jews is "Israel is the promised land, just look in the bible or the torah". So basically your tellingme if someone came into your hom, raped your mother, killed your sister an arrested your father all on circumstational evidence, you would just sit back an not do a thing? whatever not gonna discuss this anymore its pointless, you have your view i have mine.

"the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he was God's chosen"

 

[chaos]

The IDF has a responsibility to protect its citizens. In fact, the IDF is obligated under international law to defend its citizens. The fact that they have to take the measures you mentioned is the fault of Palestinian terrorists who use houses as cover or shelter to launch or plan attacks, or those who use ambulances to smuggle arms and terrorists through checkpoints.

Yes, I knew this would be your counter, and I have said this before to u also in other debates, it may not be its obligation but Israel point blank refuses to accept that any of its actions brings hardships on any Palestinians. If it recognised that they do and did things like provide alternative housing for the houses they bulldozed, provided food and medical aid to some of the poorer parts of Palestine I assure u the the terrorists will be seen as the true aggressor.

The US can't veto General Assembly resolutions. General Assembly resolutions are non binding and are simply suggestions. Security Council Resolutions, of which the United States has vetoed about 40, passed against Israel are Chapter Six resolutions, which requires Israel to enforce the resolutions. The UN has never sanctioned Israel or passed a resolution forcibly requiring Israel to comply with it.

Yes, because like I said the US has vetoed almost all of them with UK abstaining from a lot also. Had they voted as the rest of the Security council Isreal would have to comply to the resolutions and if it failed to so could then be sanctioned.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

Here is a source that (one u shouldnt call biased) gives details of all US vetoes since 1983

I think I have mentioned this before also in other debates.

Over 10,000 attacks since the intifada, which started in September/October of 2000. An attack is categorized by the ICT as any Palestinian attack on an Israeli target using a weapon. Throwing stones are not classified as weapons or attacks. So you're talking about 2,000+ attacks using weapons like guns/explosives per year on average by Palestinian militants. That's about 6 attempted attacks per day. And when you take into account that almost 80% of the Israeli casualties were unarmed combatants, it's clear who most of these attacks are targeting.

Surely a figure like that should tell u how ineffective the terrorists actually are then. From those 10000 attacks they managed to kill approx 1000. That is 10% but if u consider the fact that the bomibngs and ambushes usually end up killing more than 1 person that figure is probably down to 2%

I fail to see the point in comparing the IDF's weaponry to the Palestinians. The simple fact is that the Palestinian Authority agreed to conditions in the Oslo Accords that stated the Palestinians are not allowed to have a standing army/navy/air force and are not allowed to manufacture or have the weapons that are currently being smuggled via Egypt. The Palestinians agreed to this.

Neither do I.

The ideals/definition of Zionism was the establishment of a Jewish state in the lands of ancient Israel, the lands that Jews were expelled from during a Diaspora lasting a few millennia. I think it's safe to say that the Jews that came back to live in Israel are supporters of the idea of Zionism. That's not all Israelis, since Arabs comprise about 1/5 of the population.

Doesnt the promised land stretch from the Euphrates to the Nile?

A nuclear Israel does not pose a threat to its neighbors anymore than a non-nuclear Israel. The Israeli armed forces will always be superior to its neighbors in a non nuclear capacity, and Israel will only use nuclear weapons in self defense.

Some of Israel's neighbors have stockpiled and have used weapons of mass destruction. And it's not an issue of nonproliferation or disarming: Iran and Syria have been skirting the IAEA for years. And those two countries have been belligerents in the past 40 years.

No nuclear power had an obligation to sign the NPT. Those who did sign the NPT did so of their own accord. And frankly, the NPT was not signed in a vaccuum. When Israel didn't sign the NPT, it did so at a time when all of its Arab neighbors had tried and were still trying to militarily eradicate the state. In a situation like that, nuclear weapons are the best form of self defense.

As for your suggestion that Israel is exempt from the NPT, as if it was a law, it should be noted that a few other nuclear countries, like India (and possibly Pakistan, but I'm not sure about Pakistan offhand), also are not signatories of the NPT.

So you're upset about Israel's status regarding the NPT when it was not obligated to sign the NPT and did not do so. And meanwhile countries like Iran and North Korea have completely disobeyed the NPT and have either armed themselves with nuclear weapons or participated in proliferation of the necessary nuclear resources/technology to each other.

I'm not saying that the NPT is the be all and end all of matters, I said to make things worse Israel has not signed up to the NPT. This just adds to the mistrust between Israel and its neighbours. And how can u say that a non nuclear Israel poses just as much a threat as a nuclear one, the whole purpose of acquiring nuclear weapons was as a measure of detterrence.

Israel still continues to this day to deny its nuclear capabilities and has not signed the NPT. Unlike India and Pakistan who also have nuclear weapons and are also non-signatories of the NPT, but have fully declared their capabilities.

Iran has clearly stated its intentions are for power generation only, this is acceptable under the NPT, and all they have to do is declare all of their capabilites to the IAEA and allow the IAEA to inspect all of its nuclear facilities, it hasn't even developed those facilities fully either, and has delayed its progress for the time being and is in constant negotiations with the UK France and IAEA.

As for WMD's I have had enough of that bullshit.

 

[Morris]

So basically your tellingme if someone came into your hom, raped your mother, killed your sister an arrested your father all on circumstational evidence, you would just sit back an not do a thing?

Nothing of that sort happened. Jews migrated to Israel by the thousands from 1918-1948. During this time, not a single Palestinian was displaced or thrown out of their homes. The Jews that migrated bought unoccupied land from the provincial government. The Jews accepted a Partition in which Israel was 13% of the entire Mandate of Palestine. Palestinian and other Arab militias invaded the land partitioned into Israel to ethnically cleanse the Jews from the region. 75% of the Palestinians who left their houses during the 1948 war did so without seeing a single Jewish soldier.

Do I need to clarify anything else for you?

 

[Morris]

it may not be its obligation but Israel point blank refuses to accept that any of its actions brings hardships on any Palestinians.

Israel certainly accepts that its actions bring hardships to the Palestinians. But that's the price that has to be paid to ensure the safety of its own citizens. For example, things like curfews are less important than saving lives. Things like checkpoints and the security barrier are definitely saving lives

If it recognised that they do and did things like provide alternative housing for the houses they bulldozed, provided food and medical aid to some of the poorer parts of Palestine I assure u the the terrorists will be seen as the true aggressor.

The Israelis have no way of getting food and medical aid to the Palestinians. Per capita, the Palestinians receive more aid than any people on the planet. The Palestinians have received double the amount of aid per capita as provided in the Marshall Plan to reconstruct Europe.

The problem is their society is so riddled with corruption that the aid and money is going straight to the coffers of corrupt officials, not the people. And I'm sure I don't need to explain to you why Israeli forces can't enter a place like Nablus to provide food and medical aid. If places like Sri Lanka won't even accept Israeli delegations to help tsunami victims, you think the Palestinians are going to accept Israeli aid?

Yes, because like I said the US has vetoed almost all of them with UK abstaining from a lot also. Had they voted as the rest of the Security council Isreal would have to comply to the resolutions and if it failed to so could then be sanctioned.

Sanctions are completely different than UN resolutions. Israel has never been threatened with sanctions of any sort. It's one thing for a Security Council resolution to demand that Israel stop building the security barrier. It's another to threaten economic sanctions against Israel if they don't stop building the security barrier.

Anyway, the US has vetoed resolutions mostly because their text is one sided. Generally the resolutions denounce Israel's incursions or raids without acknowledging Palestinian terrorism.

Surely a figure like that should tell u how ineffective the terrorists actually are then. From those 10000 attacks they managed to kill approx 1000. That is 10% but if u consider the fact that the bomibngs and ambushes usually end up killing more than 1 person that figure is probably down to 2%

This isn't due to the ineffectiveness of terrorists. It's due to the improved effectiveness of the Shin Bet, Mossad and IDF. Israel didn't really commence a crackdown military occupation until April, 2002. That was following a period of 30 days in which over 100 Israelis had been killed.

If Israel ended the occupation, removed checkpoints, and "eased hardships" like curfews, the successful ratio of attacks would greatly increase.

Doesnt the promised land stretch from the Euphrates to the Nile?

I'm not sure because I don't know enough about the Bible. But the Israeli government has never stated that it wants all of those lands. It's clear that the official stance of Israel is to maintain its current borders: after all, it gave the Sinai Peninsula (much of the "promised land" from the Euphrates to the Nile) back to Egypt for basically nothing.

And how can u say that a non nuclear Israel poses just as much a threat as a nuclear one, the whole purpose of acquiring nuclear weapons was as a measure of detterrence.

Israel has military advantages over all of its neighbors. Israel only has nuclear weapons as a measure of self defense/deterrence, like you and I have both said. So I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make here, because it seems like you agree with me.

Israel still continues to this day to deny its nuclear capabilities and has not signed the NPT. Unlike India and Pakistan who also have nuclear weapons and are also non-signatories of the NPT, but have fully declared their capabilities.

I don't really think this is all that important. But Pakistan and India have announced their capabilities because they had to test the weapons and use them to deter each other. So those couldn't stay hidden. Obviously we all know Israel has nuclear weapons, but since none of its neighbors have one (yet), there's no need to fully describe/announce the arsenal.

It's nice to see that at least one of you can argue your case sensibly.

 

[Dryhus]

terrorists, Morris?so you go to someone else's country

And what country would that be?

arrive in thousands in each wave over decades

Jewish immigrants fled to Palestine to avoid persecution in Europe (namely Russia). Needless to say, they were met with hostility by the Arabs.

kill it's indeginous population,

The Palestinian population is diverse (there was Muslim immigration from N. Africa and the Balkans). But for the most part, you're all a bunch of Syrians.

kick them out of their homes and demolish them

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem gave them a simple ultimatum: fight or leave. Don't blame Jews for al-Husseini's stupidity.

then you occupy the land, and kill what's left of their children and relatives and you're expecting them to welcome your attacks on their people with welcome arms?

Wow. Those pesky Zionists didn't do a very good job, did they? There are over one million Arabs that currently reside in Israel.

I guess they are terrorists, I mean, they let you kick them out and they were bitching at you for it.how rude!

They target civilians, thus they are terrorists. It's that simple.

 

[Morris]

The funny part about these people is that they claim Israel is an apartheid state and in the same post they claim that Jews shouldn't have been allowed to migrate to the Middle East.

 

[Dryhus]

^Talk about a fundamental contradiction. What's worse is the sheer hypocrisy of it all. How many Muslim governments would even consider giving Jews and Arabs equal rights?

 

[devils_advok8]

well well well, I see what's going on here...

And what country would that be?

Palestine?That was it's name back then and will always be its name to me.

Jewish immigrants fled to Palestine to avoid persecution in Europe (namely Russia). Needless to say, they were met with hostility by the Arabs.

Lol, you say "Arabs" to avoid using the word "Palestinians", as in there's no such thing as "Palestinians".Tell you what, Dryhus, the Jews were met with hostility by Palestinians and the Palestinians got backstabbed.Oh well, I guess history repeats itself (read on Khaibar)

The Palestinian population is diverse (there was Muslim immigration from N. Africa and the Balkans). But for the most part, you're all a bunch of Syrians.

Last time I checked, North africa's map looked like this:
http://www.cdc.gov/travel/images/maps/noafrica.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa
wow, it means more Arab blood.Thanks for the info, Dryhus.hahaha.
Plus, Syrian, Lebanese and Palestinians are the SAME people.what are you trying to say?The Palestinians were mentioned in the Quran and were mentioned by our prophet.Who we are, what we are, that's not something anyone can discuss.As far as I'm concerned, we're the righteous people to the land.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem gave them a simple ultimatum: fight or leave. Don't blame Jews for al-Husseini's stupidity.
Wow. Those pesky Zionists didn't do a very good job, did they? There are over one million Arabs that currently reside in Israel.

Lmao at al-husseini's stupidity.
Reality check, all the Arab countries worked against us.What do you think the 1948 war was all about?"Leave the country so you could make way for us to kick the jews out".We left the country, yet no Arab soldiers entered the land, causing the greatest refugee diaspora of all time.Those who REFUSED to leave the occupied territories are the now called "Arab-Israelis".
Alot of the West Bank idigneous population left to the Gaza strip.They're the ones carrying all those attacks btw
You guys could do whatever you want, but you would never crush the resistance, the resistance lives, graduates thousands of new members annually, and will take the attacks to Israel itself after the emergancy state has been established.In a few years time, maybe decades, the same thing will happen to your people, and those decided to stay will be known as "Jewish Palestinians", but hey, what am I talking about?Hamas doesnt want any Jews in Palestine.

They target civilians, thus they are terrorists. It's that simple.

Every Israeli is a soldier of occupation.He's obliged to join the army, he might've joined the army already.And those immigrants came to Israel seekin asylum, thus they are Zioinsts.There's no such thing as "civilians".

 

[devils_advok8]

The funny part about these people is that they claim Israel is an apartheid state and in the same post they claim that Jews shouldn't have been allowed to migrate to the Middle East.

lol, poor jews, always discriminated against.nobody likes them, yet they are nice people.I wonder where did those people go wrong in their lives?they're well known for being generous and giving money away, even to the Palestinians living in camps..awwww, how cute

 

[feichen]

^^
now that is just plain rascism....

and before there were even palestinians it was in fact called ISRAEL and YUDA.
(and before that Canaan, which has nothing to do with palestinians... im sorry)
did u even read the kuran? it says there too ...

 

[devils_advok8]

^^
now that is just plain rascism....

and before there were even palestinians it was in fact called ISRAEL and YUDA.
(and before that Canaan, which has nothing to do with palestinians... im sorry)
did u even read the kuran? it says there too ...

feichen, who are the Canaanites?

 

[feichen]

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/whocan.htm

many ppl want u to believe that they are the "old palestinians".
but- this is untrue.

 

[devils_advok8]

It's in this described area that the conflict between the Israelites and the "peoples of the land" began, and has continued right to the present day
Nuff said.According to this article, the Palestinians are the Canaanites.You are either contradicting yourself, trying to show us that you "know your shit", or your either ignorant.

 

[devils_advok8]

many ppl want u to believe that they are the "old palestinians".
but- this is untrue.

lmao, you just edited your post to add this?even before my reply, you saw this coming
oh man, I just cant stop laughing at you, can I?you just LINKED ME to an article telling me that the Canaanites=Palestinians.
I think you should just leave and let other more knowledgable jews talk and come up to your people's defence.

 

[Kareem]

they have no defense Adovcate all they can do is post websites with thier propaganda. i could do the same. Matter fact im bout to start posting pics of jus how compassionate the Israelies are, an their "enemies" obviously neither Morris or Feichen have children, if they did then maybe they could see where the rage comes from. Better stop typing before Marvis Beacon gets me again!

 

[Morris]

Palestine?That was it's name back then and will always be its name to me.

There has never been a sovereign country of Palestine. The name came from the name of the Roman province after they took over Israel. They named the province after the Philistines as a slight to the Jews who had fought the Philistines centuries before.

Lol, you say "Arabs" to avoid using the word "Palestinians", as in there's no such thing as "Palestinians".Tell you what, Dryhus, the Jews were met with hostility by Palestinians and the Palestinians got backstabbed.Oh well, I guess history repeats itself (read on Khaibar)

Later you say that Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese are all the same group. So you basically concur with Dryhus's point that there was no classification or identification of a "Palestinian" ethnicity among Arabs until they could use it for a nationalistic argument in the conflict with Israel. The term Palestinian didn't have widespread use until the 1960s.

We left the country, yet no Arab soldiers entered the land, causing the greatest refugee diaspora of all time.

Actually Arab militias from Jordan/Egypt/Syria/Iraq and the Palestinian territories entered the lands and were beat back by the Israelis. So much for "no Arab soldiers."

 

[devils_advok8]

There has never been a sovereign country of Palestine. The name came from the name of the Roman province after they took over Israel. They named the province after the Philistines as a slight to the Jews who had fought the Philistines centuries before.



Later you say that Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese are all the same group. So you basically concur with Dryhus's point that there was no classification or identification of a "Palestinian" ethnicity among Arabs until they could use it for a nationalistic argument in the conflict with Israel. The term Palestinian didn't have widespread use until the 1960s.



Actually Arab militias from Jordan/Egypt/Syria/Iraq and the Palestinian territories entered the lands and were beat back by the Israelis. So much for "no Arab soldiers."

Palestinians, Syrian and Lebanese are all people of the Levant, they're still Arabs.what are you trying to say?
And you call that a battle?It was a conspiracy.All the Arabs countries have worked against he Palestinians and still do.They destroyed our cause and sold it.

 

[Kareem]

more to follow later but ahh explaine this Morris??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A56619-2002Apr15&notFound=true

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52681,00.html

 

[Dryhus]

You guys could do whatever you want, but you would never crush the resistance, the resistance lives

The only reason there's any kind of "resistance" movement is because the Israelis allow it. There should be another war so they can legitimately kick your asses.