Wake Up

#61
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
Native Americans were born before 1776 - they were true Americans. The 'Americans' that you speak of are either reasonably recent descendants of foreigners, or their ancestors date back to when the genocide occured (I'm pretty sure this will make up a notable portion of the populaton). Which are you?



You said, & quote, 'I love America, and I love the people in it. does this mean I am blindly devoted to it?'

My answer is yes, & I ask of Timothy McVeigh as, if you are true to your 'patriot's' beliefs, then you should love him too. But you don't so your view of a 'patriot' is either twisted or you're not a 'patriot'.



Yeah, I already said it was a wake up call but like I said, it is one that's going unheeded as America continues to fuck around in the Middle East. Following 9/11 America's idea of unity may be stronger, but due to the policies that followed, America is now poorer in finance & rights & more hated than ever - if this equals stronger then you are correct.



I would like you to specify where I 'generalized'? That said, there is nothing wrong with 'generalization' as long as it has some basis.



What the fuck? You do realize that America is a country don't you? So when I speak on America's past or present I am not saying you did that.

That said, America would like to be known as a democracy so it's actions are should reflect it's people's wishes. By mentioning some of America's actions, both past & present, I was infoming you why I have no love for America - a by-product of which is that I have little love for Americans who contribute to America's actions ie. those who support Bush etc.
Might I remind you I was only asked by you to defend how I can 'say this stuff' with a clear conscience because you got one of my comments twisted where you thought I was saying I was going to laugh when you died but what I had actually said was that I would pity you for your uselessness ie. helplessness & blindness etc.

As for you reiterating that you're a patriot, like I've already stated, either your idea of what constitutes a 'patriot' is wrong, or you are not a 'patriot' (by way of your own idea of a 'patriot')

Btw, my Osama comment showed your hypocrisy, my Arab comment showed your ignorance - congratulations you are an American!

Do you deserve to die? I don't know you so I can't say when, where & how you deserve to die but answer a few questions for me & I may be able to give you an answer.

Please give reasons why;

1. Did you vote for Bush?
2. Do you support the war in Iraq?
3. As a follow-on of question 2, was America right to disregard the UN's wishes?
4. Do you recognize America's hypocrisy of the past & in the present? (eg. Cuba/Soviet Union/Turkey situation, the supression of free speech or the 'unknown' that is Guantanamo Bay)
5. Do you condone America's betrayal of their Iraqi allies in 1991?

if generalizations are ok as long as they have a basis, is it ok for me to say "palestine is a county full of suicide bombers"? i dont think it is....

tha wild already explained my previous qoute. just because i love american people, doesnt mean that i have to love each individual person...

now, for your questions....

1) i did not vote, i am not old enough.

2) i wouldnt necessarily say i support the war in iraq. however, i do support our troops. i wish our president would given iraq more time to allow inspectors in. however, i do believe that president bush believes he was acting for the good of our nation. i also believe that we cannot leave iraq yet since the current state it is in. AND im not sure what the statistics are of iraqis supporting our forces over the past forces of saddam hussein, but i am happy for the people of iraq that he is no longer in power.

3) i already stated my answer in question 2, but i will say it again. i wish we would have given iraq more time and not have disregarded the un wishes. however, why did saddam hussein keep saying no if there was nothing to hide? we should not have went in, but him not allowing un inspectors in, was a stupid thing to do, if there was nothing to hide....

4) yes i recognize the hipocracy of the past. can you show me how it is still happening? hipocracy is obviously something that you should not do, however i think that you should put the health of the nation before being worried about contradicting prior actions...

5) question 4 already answered this. i dont believe it was a good thing, but the nation is more important than worrying about contradictions (btw, can u list specific examples of america betraying allies in 1991?)
 
#62
Little Skittle said:
if generalizations are ok as long as they have a basis, is it ok for me to say "palestine is a county full of suicide bombers"? i dont think it is....
There is a very weak basis on which to presume that Palestine is full of suicide bombers. If this were the cas, wouldn't they all be dead?

My basis for generalizing Americans is quite simple - Bush won the election by a majority vote, therefore most Americans support Bush & his policies. This is a fair assumption on which to base a genralization.


Your answers to questions 2 & 3 tell me you condone hypocrisy (consciously or subconsciously).

Question 4 reinforces your answer to question 1. I can understand the point of putting the health of the nation before being too scared to go back on what you once said was the right thing but the problem is the burden of the mistakes America makes usually falls on other countries. Also, much of America's actions are not for the health of the nation, but to further the agenda of the few.

If you answered question 5 in your answer to question 4 then you condone this betrayal. If you knew what I was talking about you would never have had to ask for examples as there is one that should spring to the mind of anyone even half-read up on the situation, making me wonder how you can condone something you don't even know about....

Anyways, on Febuary the 15th 1991, the American President at the time - one George H.W. Bush called on the Iraqi military & the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Tired of Saddam's oppressive regime, the people answered the American call. On March the 3rd, an Iraqi tank commander returning from Kuwait fired a shell through one of the portraits of Saddam in Basra's main square, igniting the uprising in southern Iraq. The following week, Kurdish rebels ended Saddam's control over much of northern Iraq.

But while the Bush administration had call for the uprising, due to matters of policy, the administration refused to talk with the Iraqi opposition. Policymakers tended to see Iraq's main ethnic groups in caricature: The Shiites were feared as pro-Iranian and the Kurds as anti-Turkish. Indeed, the U.S. administration seemed to prefer the continuation of the Baath regime (albeit without Hussein) to the success of the rebellion

The practical expression of this policy came in the decisions made by the military on the ground when U.S. commanders spurned the rebels' plea for help. The US allowed Iraq to send Republican Guard units into southern cities and to fly helicopter gunships. (This in spite of a ban on flights, articulated by Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf with considerable swagger: "You fly, you die.") The consequences were devastating. Hussein's forces leveled the historical centers of the Shiite towns, bombarded sacred Shiite shrines and executed thousands on the spot. By some estimates, 100,000 people died in reprisal killings between March and September. Many of these atrocities were committed in proximity to American troops, who were under orders not to intervene.

In light of the uprising, in future years Baghdad would shortchange the south in the distribution of food and medicine, contributing to severe malnutrition among vulnerable populations. Some 100 Shiite clerics were murdered, including four senior ayatollahs. Draining the marshes displaced 400,000 Marsh Arabs, destroying a culture that is one of the world's oldest, as well as causing immeasurable ecological damage.

It is said that, with US help, or even neutrality, the uprising could have succeeded. The US military was in prime postion to easily down Iraqi helicopters & Iraqi tanks - they simply decided not to.

The fact is, the Iraqis heard America's call & answered it with their hearts, paying for it with their blood & that of their future generations.

When the people of Iraq called on America to help finish what had been started however, the call was heard, but America refused to help & just turned their backs.....

This is the meaning of betrayal - this is America at work.
 
#63
i dont condone betrayal, but i believe that you should look out for yourselves before you look out for other people. and your gettin your panties in a bunch like america was the one killing all these people when it was saddam hussein
 
#64
Man, are you thick or what?

Those people wouldn't have died then, & wouldn't have been starved of supplies if it hadn't been for Bush.

Saddam liked to kill people - no doubt - but he really liked to hurt those who went against him.

You say you don't condone betrayal but then turn around like, 'but we didn't betray them', when you obviously did. That is just fucking pathetic. It's easy to have principles when you deny reality.

I doubt you even read it.

Yeah, you do deserve to die IMO, but, unlike your nation, I understand I don't have the right to take the lives of the 'innocent'.

& although, as I've stated in countless other threads, I believe death is final, I really do hope it ain't, just so your twisted ways don't go unpunished.....
 
#65
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
Man, are you thick or what?

Those people wouldn't have died then, & wouldn't have been starved of supplies if it hadn't been for Bush.

Saddam liked to kill people - no doubt - but he really liked to hurt those who went against him.

You say you don't condone betrayal but then turn around like, 'but we didn't betray them', when you obviously did. That is just fucking pathetic. It's easy to have principles when you deny reality.

I doubt you even read it.

Yeah, you do deserve to die IMO, but, unlike your nation, I understand I don't have the right to take the lives of the 'innocent'.

& although, as I've stated in countless other threads, I believe death is final, I really do hope it ain't, just so your twisted ways don't go unpunished.....

no man im not thick, im rational.

if those people wouldnt have died when they did, they would have started their own uprising sooner or later and died then. its really shitty that they did have to die, but do u think that even if they wouldnt have started that shit, saddam wouldve hesitated to kill them anyways?

those people shoulda never been deprived of food in the first place....their own country shoulda been lookin our for them. but i guess the american government is one of the few that looks out for its citizens, instead of mindlessly slaughtering them...

dont act like an asshole and shit like you know me. how the hell do i deny reality? i deny the falsisms that are shown through bias resources.

y would i reply if i didnt read what you wrote? how could i point out specific examples if i didnt read what you wrote?

ive never met u in person and you've never met me. all that you know about me is my opinion on several topics and you're telling me that i deserve to die? are you so blind to your own ignorance that you do not see how drastic and radical that is? but i guess thats just ignorance from members of a few countries...the same countries with outrageous punishments like cutting your fuckin hand off if you try to steal something....

if my morals on what are right and just are deserving of death, than lead me to the gallows...
 
#66
Little Skittle said:
no man im not thick, im rational.

if those people wouldnt have died when they did, they would have started their own uprising sooner or later and died then. its really shitty that they did have to die, but do u think that even if they wouldnt have started that shit, saddam wouldve hesitated to kill them anyways?

those people shoulda never been deprived of food in the first place....their own country shoulda been lookin our for them. but i guess the american government is one of the few that looks out for its citizens, instead of mindlessly slaughtering them...

dont act like an asshole and shit like you know me. how the hell do i deny reality? i deny the falsisms that are shown through bias resources.

y would i reply if i didnt read what you wrote? how could i point out specific examples if i didnt read what you wrote?

ive never met u in person and you've never met me. all that you know about me is my opinion on several topics and you're telling me that i deserve to die? are you so blind to your own ignorance that you do not see how drastic and radical that is? but i guess thats just ignorance from members of a few countries...the same countries with outrageous punishments like cutting your fuckin hand off if you try to steal something....

if my morals on what are right and just are deserving of death, than lead me to the gallows...
Would they have started the uprising if they didn't believe they were going to have US support? I suppose the fact that their uprising coincided with Bush's call was just a coincidence? They could've uprised before, the only circumstance that was different was the call. This is how, scientifically, you identify the cause of an action.

Do you even know what Saddam did to them? It wasn't no, I'll just kill you for the sake of it. It was chemical warfare, murder & destruction of land. It was REVENGE. It wasn't no whimsical decision. Saddam made an example out of them. So yeah, he wouldn't have done what he did had they not rallied against him.

Don't you understand? In response to the uprising (which America sparked), Saddam stopped the supplies. Therefore, it was America's fault - especially seeing as with US support the uprising could've succeeded.

Tell me what is biased? Sure my mind, as a resource, is biased but that is only human. Facts cannot be biased though, so if facts make America look bad then America is bad. Why don't you read up, you'll find that everything I stated is perfectly true. (Some of that is jacked straight off a site & is confirmed by many other sites & by books, reports etc.)

Btw, by denying the truth of what I wrote, you are denying reality so as not to accept that America betrayed the Iraqi people.

You pointed out examples? You are blatantly lying.....

Just like your Government you twist what people say. Like when I made the 'not laugh' comment which you curiously took to mean 'I would laugh'. Now I tell you that I think it would be better if you died & you take that as being some kind of drastic & radical statement even though I conceded that I am without the right to carry this out. It wasn't as if I said, 'I'm coming to kill you'.

And 'ignorant'? OH MY FUCKING GOD!! You sit there & deny the truth time & time again & you're calling me ignorant? Fuck it, I am coming to kill you!! (Don't dial 9/11, I'm only kidding)

'Outrageous punishments'? Hmmm, how about countries where women get stoned to death for adultery? Yeah, that's pretty bad ain't it? Well, America is allies with these countries. Human rights? You don't have a fucking clue.

Btw, I also think it's pretty outrageous that you can be arrested for someone else's opinion of you & your beliefs. In America, that is the law. So when you think about it, being thrown in prison for the rest of your life could be considered dying, so in actuality, your beliefs can have you legally killed in America, but I guess that's just the ignorance of your country.

You have no morals, no conscience, no shame, so don't try to make a poignant effort at the end because, like most of the world these days, I don't shed tears for the American snake.
 
#67
Skittles, you're making no sense.But, what am I talking about?You're the typical ignorant American.I'm sure journalism is your major, and your dream is to be a CNN journalist or whatever, but tell you what, from your posts, I can tell that the only spot they'll have for your there is a reserve cleaner, or the coffee guy.
 
#68
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
Would they have started the uprising if they didn't believe they were going to have US support? I suppose the fact that their uprising coincided with Bush's call was just a coincidence? They could've uprised before, the only circumstance that was different was the call. This is how, scientifically, you identify the cause of an action.

Do you even know what Saddam did to them? It wasn't no, I'll just kill you for the sake of it. It was chemical warfare, murder & destruction of land. It was REVENGE. It wasn't no whimsical decision. Saddam made an example out of them. So yeah, he wouldn't have done what he did had they not rallied against him.

Don't you understand? In response to the uprising (which America sparked), Saddam stopped the supplies. Therefore, it was America's fault - especially seeing as with US support the uprising could've succeeded.

Tell me what is biased? Sure my mind, as a resource, is biased but that is only human. Facts cannot be biased though, so if facts make America look bad then America is bad. Why don't you read up, you'll find that everything I stated is perfectly true. (Some of that is jacked straight off a site & is confirmed by many other sites & by books, reports etc.)

Btw, by denying the truth of what I wrote, you are denying reality so as not to accept that America betrayed the Iraqi people.

You pointed out examples? You are blatantly lying.....

Just like your Government you twist what people say. Like when I made the 'not laugh' comment which you curiously took to mean 'I would laugh'. Now I tell you that I think it would be better if you died & you take that as being some kind of drastic & radical statement even though I conceded that I am without the right to carry this out. It wasn't as if I said, 'I'm coming to kill you'.

And 'ignorant'? OH MY FUCKING GOD!! You sit there & deny the truth time & time again & you're calling me ignorant? Fuck it, I am coming to kill you!! (Don't dial 9/11, I'm only kidding)

'Outrageous punishments'? Hmmm, how about countries where women get stoned to death for adultery? Yeah, that's pretty bad ain't it? Well, America is allies with these countries. Human rights? You don't have a fucking clue.

Btw, I also think it's pretty outrageous that you can be arrested for someone else's opinion of you & your beliefs. In America, that is the law. So when you think about it, being thrown in prison for the rest of your life could be considered dying, so in actuality, your beliefs can have you legally killed in America, but I guess that's just the ignorance of your country.

You have no morals, no conscience, no shame, so don't try to make a poignant effort at the end because, like most of the world these days, I don't shed tears for the American snake.

they wouldnt have started the uprising at the time, but eventually if conditions would've stayed as they were, there would have been an uprising.

your statement is drastic because you have never met me, you dont know anything about me, the only reason you even know i exist is because we're discussing a topic. you know my opinion on 1 topic and because we disagree, you tell i deserve to die. do you not see anything wrong with this? i would rather have had you say that you were coming to kill me, because i know you would not actually do that, but i actually believe you when you say that i deserve death. i do not deserve death, i have done nothing wrong... and for you to believe that my beliefs are deserving of death is outrageous...

yes america is allies with some of these nations, but you will find none of these punishments in america...

you cant be arrested for you beliefs unless your beliefs are harmful to others. what american law says otherwise? and yes it is pretty outrageous, and i see it happening in OTHER countries all the time...

i have morals, a conscience, and shame. do i hurt people? no. do i rape people? no. have i ever betrayed anyone? no. so dont fuckin tell me that i have no morals, conscience and shame. thats what pisses me off about people from other countries, they point out several imperfections with america and believe that every american is like that.

to devils advoke- instead of embarassing yourself and taking personal shots at me, contribute to the thread and show your beliefs. but i guess that might be to hard, to express yourself rather then make lame jokes about people you've never met before.
 
#69
Little Skittle said:
they wouldnt have started the uprising at the time, but eventually if conditions would've stayed as they were, there would have been an uprising.
How do you know this? The conditions had been that poor for a long time & they hadn't revolted. Like I said, the new factor involved was Bush's call to arms.

Little Skittle said:
your statement is drastic because you have never met me, you dont know anything about me, the only reason you even know i exist is because we're discussing a topic. you know my opinion on 1 topic and because we disagree, you tell i deserve to die. do you not see anything wrong with this? i would rather have had you say that you were coming to kill me, because i know you would not actually do that, but i actually believe you when you say that i deserve death. i do not deserve death, i have done nothing wrong... and for you to believe that my beliefs are deserving of death is outrageous...
I know your opinion on one topic? Yes, but from this I can decipher much about your beliefs from how you turn a blind eye to this, but not to that.

Little Skittle said:
yes america is allies with some of these nations, but you will find none of these punishments in america...

you cant be arrested for you beliefs unless your beliefs are harmful to others. what american law says otherwise? and yes it is pretty outrageous, and i see it happening in OTHER countries all the time...
This is a prime example of the bodyswerving American snake in action.

Point No. 1 - that America hypocriticly condemns some nations for violations of human rights but doesn't others, the only diffrence being the latter are America's allies.
You defend this by stating these violations don't happen in Amerca. (Great, but you missed my point.)

Point No. 2 - America has despicable laws which allow the arrest of people for having different beliefs.
You defend this by, realizing the defence used in Point No. 1 to be futile here, saying it happens elsewhere too. Does this make it OK? I don't think so.

Oh, & who decides who's beliefs are 'harmful to others'? And who are 'others'? The majority? Fact is, many feel Bush's beliefs are harmful - why isn't he arrested? Also, how do you know someone's beliefs? If they tell you - fair enough. What if they don't & you just 'suspect' them of holding certain beliefs say because, they are a Muslim who sympathizes with the people of Palestine? Is this enough for 'suspicion'? If so, it's enough to have them arrested.

Little Skittle said:
i have morals, a conscience, and shame. do i hurt people? no. do i rape people? no. have i ever betrayed anyone? no. so dont fuckin tell me that i have no morals, conscience and shame. thats what pisses me off about people from other countries, they point out several imperfections with america and believe that every american is like that.
You have morals, a conscience & shame? You could have fooled me. Maybe you believe you do, but unless you're playing me, then your belief here is just as ignorant & ill-founded as the countless others you have expressed in this thread.
 
#70
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
How do you know this? The conditions had been that poor for a long time & they hadn't revolted. Like I said, the new factor involved was Bush's call to arms.



I know your opinion on one topic? Yes, but from this I can decipher much about your beliefs from how you turn a blind eye to this, but not to that.



This is a prime example of the bodyswerving American snake in action.

Point No. 1 - that America hypocriticly condemns some nations for violations of human rights but doesn't others, the only diffrence being the latter are America's allies.
You defend this by stating these violations don't happen in Amerca. (Great, but you missed my point.)

Point No. 2 - America has despicable laws which allow the arrest of people for having different beliefs.
You defend this by, realizing the defence used in Point No. 1 to be futile here, saying it happens elsewhere too. Does this make it OK? I don't think so.

Oh, & who decides who's beliefs are 'harmful to others'? And who are 'others'? The majority? Fact is, many feel Bush's beliefs are harmful - why isn't he arrested? Also, how do you know someone's beliefs? If they tell you - fair enough. What if they don't & you just 'suspect' them of holding certain beliefs say because, they are a Muslim who sympathizes with the people of Palestine? Is this enough for 'suspicion'? If so, it's enough to have them arrested.



You have morals, a conscience & shame? You could have fooled me. Maybe you believe you do, but unless you're playing me, then your belief here is just as ignorant & ill-founded as the countless others you have expressed in this thread.

i never sed that any nation was ok for doing foul things to their citizens (when did i defend american allies?)

others meaning other people...

i dont suspect people of having certain beliefs just because of religion/ political background, etc.

again your taking pointless and unnecessary personal shots on me...
 
#71
Little Skittle said:
i never sed that any nation was ok for doing foul things to their citizens (when did i defend american allies?)
You never did & I never said you did. What you did do was brush off my point by saying that it doesn't happen in America (once again, missing my point) & brushing off my counter response by denying the truth. Now, you miss my point again.

Little Skittle said:
others meaning other people...
Who are 'others'? Everyone that is not you? Everyone that is not your relative? Everyone who is not American? Everyone who is not the 'suspect'? Everyone who is not a relative of the 'suspect'?

Elaborate, please.

Little Skittle said:
i dont suspect people of having certain beliefs just because of religion/ political background, etc.
Although this is a tremendously stupid comment, I can see what you attempted to say.

So as to stop you asking why I called this comment such; a Jew will believe in certain things, a Muslim will believe in certain things, a Marxist will believe in certain things, a BNP member will believe in certain things etc. You can take much, at face value, about a person due to their religious/political backgrounds etc.

I understand what you are saying though. You do not do this ('this' being that which I said in my previous post). Fair enough, but your Governement sometimes does & have acted upon it.

Little Skittle said:
again your taking pointless and unnecessary personal shots on me...
You are the one who brought yourself into this discussion. Before you brought yourself as an individual into this discussion, I was making points with regards to policies, nations, events etc. It was you who brought yourself into the discussion & now you are going to moan when I make points about you?

What can I say?

I'm getting quite used to writing in reference to the American snake. I feel for those who are clearer in their vision of the world, as they are in danger of being tarred with the same brush.


I am losing patience with this discussion as I appear to be doing all the running. I do not wish to make you dislike your own country. I merely want you to view America as much of the world does & understand, for better or worse, there are many truths to be found here.

Do me a favour - & this is sincere - think before you decide to reply. And if you decide to reply, make sure you have read my posts thoroughly & have thought about what you are going to say.
 
#72
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
You never did & I never said you did. What you did do was brush off my point by saying that it doesn't happen in America (once again, missing my point) & brushing off my counter response by denying the truth. Now, you miss my point again.



Who are 'others'? Everyone that is not you? Everyone that is not your relative? Everyone who is not American? Everyone who is not the 'suspect'? Everyone who is not a relative of the 'suspect'?

Elaborate, please.



Although this is a tremendously stupid comment, I can see what you attempted to say.

So as to stop you asking why I called this comment such; a Jew will believe in certain things, a Muslim will believe in certain things, a Marxist will believe in certain things, a BNP member will believe in certain things etc. You can take much, at face value, about a person due to their religious/political backgrounds etc.

I understand what you are saying though. You do not do this ('this' being that which I said in my previous post). Fair enough, but your Governement sometimes does & have acted upon it.



You are the one who brought yourself into this discussion. Before you brought yourself as an individual into this discussion, I was making points with regards to policies, nations, events etc. It was you who brought yourself into the discussion & now you are going to moan when I make points about you?

What can I say?

I'm getting quite used to writing in reference to the American snake. I feel for those who are clearer in their vision of the world, as they are in danger of being tarred with the same brush.


I am losing patience with this discussion as I appear to be doing all the running. I do not wish to make you dislike your own country. I merely want you to view America as much of the world does & understand, for better or worse, there are many truths to be found here.

Do me a favour - & this is sincere - think before you decide to reply. And if you decide to reply, make sure you have read my posts thoroughly & have thought about what you are going to say.
"others" being ANY PERSON besides oneself
 
#73
Little Skittle said:
"others" being ANY PERSON besides oneself
So individuals decide whose individually harmful to them - fine.

But that was not what I was talking about originally, so I'll bring this new information back into context.

I was talking about how the American Government locks people up, essentially, for their beliefs.

You defended this by saying, it's OK if their beliefs are 'harmful to others'.

This would, by your definition, mean almost everyone is guilty because almost everyone's beliefs are viewed as 'harmful' by someone.

Think about it & clarify. Or retract your initial defense.
 
#74
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
So individuals decide whose individually harmful to them - fine.

But that was not what I was talking about originally, so I'll bring this new information back into context.

I was talking about how the American Government locks people up, essentially, for their beliefs.

You defended this by saying, it's OK if their beliefs are 'harmful to others'.

This would, by your definition, mean almost everyone is guilty because almost everyone's beliefs are viewed as 'harmful' by someone.

Think about it & clarify. Or retract your initial defense.
my fault, ill clarify....

people who not only believe in hurting other people, but actually carry plans through to do it, or plan on carrying plans through
 
#75
Little Skittle said:
you cant be arrested for you beliefs unless your beliefs are harmful to others. what american law says otherwise? and yes it is pretty outrageous, and i see it happening in OTHER countries all the time...
Little Skittle said:
people who not only believe in hurting other people, but actually carry plans through to do it, or plan on carrying plans through
I should've mentioned this earlier when you made the former post.

The Patriot Act is a law which allows you to be detained on 'suspicion'.

The latter of the quotes here suggest that you believe in punishing criminals who have been proven guilty of something - does this indicate that you would find it wrong to arrest someone on the grounds of 'suspicion'? ('suspicion' which has arose not from these people making bombs or something, but from what they believe in ie. a Muslim who sympathizes with the struggle of Palestinians)
 
#76
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
I should've mentioned this earlier when you made the former post.

The Patriot Act is a law which allows you to be detained on 'suspicion'.

The latter of the quotes here suggest that you believe in punishing criminals who have been proven guilty of something - does this indicate that you would find it wrong to arrest someone on the grounds of 'suspicion'? ('suspicion' which has arose not from these people making bombs or something, but from what they believe in ie. a Muslim who sympathizes with the struggle of Palestinians)

they have to have a cause for being suspicious, beliefs are not a cause for suspicion. and if they are suspicious, they will not arrest you right away, they would tap your phone (which i do not agree with) and investigate a bit before they would go as far as to arrest the individual
 
#79
Read my post again. I say nothing about further investigation - whether it happens or not only the Govt. knows.

My post was made to tell you that your Govt. does arrest people, essentially, for their beliefs seeing as you said they didn't.
 
#80
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
Read my post again. I say nothing about further investigation - whether it happens or not only the Govt. knows.

My post was made to tell you that your Govt. does arrest people, essentially, for their beliefs seeing as you said they didn't.
i know that you sed nothing about further investigation, that was my whole point... yes essentially it is their beliefs, but only if their beliefs can cause injury to other people, if they act upon them. dont you also agree they should be arrested if they try (or plan to) take it a step further and injure/kill other people?
 

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