The Derek Jeter for MVP thread

[tennis_dog]

or the one that padded his against the royals? (thome)

or in the NL's case, the one who slaughtered the cubs' rookies, the pirates suckers, and a flopping 1st-half astros rotation? (pujols)

papi delivers when he needed...clutch...that makes him valuable...making amazing catches to save games, not just a hr in the 3rd inning, is valuable....papi cant do the latter, but he still delivers in the clutch...which makes him *gasp* valuable...

 

[Butt Rubber]

tennis, how is Jeter not clutch?

dude's hit more game winning world series home runs than papi can dream of

and he's carried the yankees into first place when two of their all-star outfielders and all-star second basemen have missed significant amounts of time


and jeter plays the most important position on the field, his defense SAVES runs. papi contributes nothing on defense.

 

[tennis_dog]

well, yeah, i just said that...that the mvp needs to contribute defensively, and that ortiz couldnt do the latter.....but it's a dh bias....it's kinda like pitchers getting gold gloves for defense....those catches ofl ine drives hit right at them, really dont take much skill...its just luck..you're trying to save your ass so you just put your glove up...other than that play, what other play does a pitcher make that is comparable to any of the tough, though routine plays a shortstop makes???

so, ok, jeter is clutch, but in the WS.....we're talking about this season, not the past..... jeter has to be clutch this season....so while his stats this season are stellar, in fact isnt he on pace to set new career highs, i think papi's 5 game ending, walk off hits really let him squeeze ahead of jeter....

and like i said, there's always a dh bias, but i think his stats give him much more of a boost than jeter's defense...i see it like this...if it's bottom of the ninth, no one on, 2 outs....and the world series, if one of them were to be on my team and batting at that moment, i would feel better about papi hitting a home run, than i would jeter, to end this game for me...


i also looked up papi's stats...papi does do well against the rays, but he also does amazing against your beloved yankees...seattle, toronto and texas

 

[Bachaveli]

Ortiz is more clutch this season than Jeter is, unfortunetly.

 

[yak pac fatal]

ehhh no

ortiz

 

[Bachaveli]

He is hands down the best hitter/cluth in the game.Even better then Pujols.

 

[Butt Rubber]

ortiz's error was responsible for 4 runs being scored off david wells. nice job gorilla.

 

[Butt Rubber]

Ortiz is more clutch this season than Jeter is, unfortunetly.

don't let the tools at ESPN misguide you

Jeter
close and late: .321/.471/.415, 17 hits/53 atbats, 11 RBI, 13 walks
RISP w/ 2 outs: .425/.588/.600, 17 hits/40 at bats, 22 RBI, 12 walks

Gortiz
close and late: .313/.371/.828, 20 hits/64 atbats, 24 RBI, 6 walks
RISP w/ 2 outs: .288/.431/.558, 15 hits/52 at bats, 25 RBI, 13 walks

Jeter gets on base 100 points more in close situations (granted his slugging average isnt nearly as high, but Jeter isn't a slugger, now is he?) and with RISP its not even fucking close. with RISP and 2 outs Jeter's BA is almost higher than Ortiz's OBP.

not to mention Jeter's defense saves runs.

 

[Bachaveli]

Dig as many stats that you think are better then Ortiz as you want, but nobody tops Ortiz's late inning number of go ahead hits and walk off HR's.Its not all about stats.You might be a .350 hitter and getting couple of hits almost every day.But whats it worth if those hits are just singles and all it does is raises average up.On the other hand, you could be a .290 hitter and getting one or two hits.But whenever you do get those hits, a lot of those are crucial hits.This is like quanity vs. quality.Quality definetly is more valuable.Jeters hits aren't less crucial either but not as crucial as Ortiz's,no way.Time after time Ortiz comes through.

 

[tennis_dog]

Dig as many stats that you think are better then Ortiz as you want, but nobody tops Ortiz's late inning number of go ahead hits and walk off HR's.Its not all about stats.You might be a .350 hitter and getting couple of hits almost every day.But whats it worth if those hits are just singles and all it does is raises average up.On the other hand, you could be a .290 hitter and getting one or two hits.But whenever you do get those hits, a lot of those are crucial hits.This is like quanity vs. quality.Quality definetly is more valuable.Jeters hits aren't less crucial either but not as crucial as Ortiz's,no way.Time after time Ortiz comes through.

well said...sluggers are generally like that..they make the big hits, just not as often..leads to low average but high ribbies...

papi hit a bit of a slump, or else he'd be hitting .305 ish right now...


off topic, but justin morneau has just...torn shit up... really shaping up from the past two shitty seasons.. i like this guy

 

[Butt Rubber]

Dig as many stats that you think are better then Ortiz as you want, but nobody tops Ortiz's late inning number of go ahead hits and walk off HR's.Its not all about stats.You might be a .350 hitter and getting couple of hits almost every day.But whats it worth if those hits are just singles and all it does is raises average up.On the other hand, you could be a .290 hitter and getting one or two hits.But whenever you do get those hits, a lot of those are crucial hits.This is like quanity vs. quality.Quality definetly is more valuable.Jeters hits aren't less crucial either but not as crucial as Ortiz's,no way.Time after time Ortiz comes through.

what good is a home run if the team is ahead or trailing by 5 runs?

jeter's job is the get on base and let Giambi/A-rod/Abreu knock him in

Ortiz's job is to knock people in and let Manny knock him in.

two totally different monsters.

 

[tennis_dog]

but does giambi, abreu and arod knock him in?? that's the question...

if you ask me, i think jeter needs to take over the leadoff role again...fuck damon...well..no, but put him second, or further back in the lineup...jeter would do much better at leadoff..

 

[Bachaveli]

The good that giving Red Sox leads.You're twisting it around.Ortiz been hitting HR's that are crucial and you saying what good is it?I just answered your question.Jeter's job to get on,Ortiz's to knock people in.We're talking about MVP candidate,not comparing who does what well.So Ortiz is more valuable in this case.

 

[tennis_dog]

quick, random question....but what's a "rubber game" in baseball? i just saw it in a box score...dunno what the hell that means..

 

[Butt Rubber]

These are the candidates WARP 3 or Wins Above Replacement Player 3.

Mauer=9.8

Thome=7.5

Jeter=10.2

Ortiz=8.1

1st-Jeter

2nd-Mauer

3rd-Ortiz

4th-Thome



another interesting note, both Ortiz and Manny have 91 runs created this year, but Manny has done that in 32 less at-bats. Ortiz isn't even the MVP of his own team in creating runs.

 

[jbrolax]

quick, random question....but what's a "rubber game" in baseball? i just saw it in a box score...dunno what the hell that means..

im pretty sure a rubber game is the final game in a tied series. So if the yankees are playing the sox in a 3 games series and win the first, sox win the second, then the 3rd would be the rubber match because it decides the series..

 

[Butt Rubber]

yep, rubber game is the deciding game in a 1-1 series

 

[AmerikazMost]

Since the start of '03, [David Ortiz] has notched the game-winning RBI in the eighth inning or later 23 times. According to Elias Sports Bureau, no other major leaguer has more than 19 in that span.

 

[tennis_dog]

bank robber...come on...how do you not see this?? when tejada rove in..150 was it? two years ago, did it really matter for his lowly orioles? whether he won mvp, which i dont think he did... he didnt help his team win....think of it like this...who would you rather have on your team...a guy that has 150 ribbies but didnt do shit for his team, or some that had around 80 ribbies, but won the game 23 times for his team??? see that would be a mix of jeter and ortiz, but ortiz hits 150 ribbies, and remember, he's done it 23, times....it doesnt mean 23 ribbies....it's possible he's knocked in about 40 ribbies to win games....so...really, jeter, as great of a player he is...5 tool....captain of his team, if it came down to ortiz and jeter, ortiz would get my vote in a second...if i turn on espn every morning for the remaining..50 or so games, and i see on sportscenter, jeter hitting a grand slam to win the game, i'd put him straight ahead of ortiz because of jeter's other achievements...but until ortiz is eligible to win a gold glove, i just call it a DH bias....

to be honest, i think i might take hafner over jeter for those reasons too.... how many slams has he hit?? being a cubs fan listening to sox fans bitch at their current state of demise, sox fans hate hafner...he's a sox killer...anytime a team hates you, there's a really good chance that you are an mvp....like a certain gay-rod?

i just read a shirt... "jeter can go suck a-rod"......just thought it was funny...

 

[Butt Rubber]

bank robber...come on...how do you not see this?? when tejada rove in..150 was it? two years ago, did it really matter for his lowly orioles? whether he won mvp, which i dont think he did... he didnt help his team win....think of it like this...who would you rather have on your team...a guy that has 150 ribbies but didnt do shit for his team, or some that had around 80 ribbies, but won the game 23 times for his team??? see that would be a mix of jeter and ortiz, but ortiz hits 150 ribbies, and remember, he's done it 23, times....it doesnt mean 23 ribbies....it's possible he's knocked in about 40 ribbies to win games....so...really, jeter, as great of a player he is...5 tool....captain of his team, if it came down to ortiz and jeter, ortiz would get my vote in a second...if i turn on espn every morning for the remaining..50 or so games, and i see on sportscenter, jeter hitting a grand slam to win the game, i'd put him straight ahead of ortiz because of jeter's other achievements...but until ortiz is eligible to win a gold glove, i just call it a DH bias....

to be honest, i think i might take hafner over jeter for those reasons too.... how many slams has he hit?? being a cubs fan listening to sox fans bitch at their current state of demise, sox fans hate hafner...he's a sox killer...anytime a team hates you, there's a really good chance that you are an mvp....like a certain gay-rod?

i just read a shirt... "jeter can go suck a-rod"......just thought it was funny...

2003, 2004 and 2005 are irrelevant to this discussion

and Jeter has had just as big of an impact on carring the Yankees tihs year as Ortiz has carried the Sawx

Sure, I could live with Ortiz winning MVP, but not if Jeter continues the season he's having now