Semper Fidelis
- Thread starter poeticDaVinci
- Start date
I'm sorry about Joshua but that's just it...I'm sorry.
He didn't die for my freedom or anything that could do the poor and suffering in America any favor. He died so that rich Americans can pay a little less at the gas pump for their huge SUV's in a few years. He died so that American construction companies can get huge contracts for rebuilding a war torn nation. He died so that the U.S. can put another fucking flag up at another military base half way around the world. He died so that we could establish a government there that would be willing to do all they could to make sure oil keeps flowing our way.
This is the truth. We didn't go over there because we thought they were gonna try and bomb us, or that they were funding terrorist attacks. We didn't go over there to liberate the oppressed.
Josh died for money. I'm sorry that he didn't know, or he could've saved himself. Please don't do the same thing. Please.
Peace.
"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Goering
"In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners."
-Albert Camus
He didn't die for my freedom or anything that could do the poor and suffering in America any favor. He died so that rich Americans can pay a little less at the gas pump for their huge SUV's in a few years. He died so that American construction companies can get huge contracts for rebuilding a war torn nation. He died so that the U.S. can put another fucking flag up at another military base half way around the world. He died so that we could establish a government there that would be willing to do all they could to make sure oil keeps flowing our way.
This is the truth. We didn't go over there because we thought they were gonna try and bomb us, or that they were funding terrorist attacks. We didn't go over there to liberate the oppressed.
Josh died for money. I'm sorry that he didn't know, or he could've saved himself. Please don't do the same thing. Please.
Peace.
"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Goering
"In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners."
-Albert Camus
Poetic simply forgot the understood-within-the-context word American after only those.
You're making no point except word games. Like you really think she doesn't value the help of the Australians because she only said red, white, and blue? Then why didn't you mention them? Or any other country helping us there? That would have made what she said look even worse if she had really only meant Americans. But u knew that wasn't what she meant, so you took the absent word as an opportunity to play a word game that would look like a good point about how her thinking dehumanized the enemy.
You're making no point except word games. Like you really think she doesn't value the help of the Australians because she only said red, white, and blue? Then why didn't you mention them? Or any other country helping us there? That would have made what she said look even worse if she had really only meant Americans. But u knew that wasn't what she meant, so you took the absent word as an opportunity to play a word game that would look like a good point about how her thinking dehumanized the enemy.
Jokerman said:
Poetic simply forgot the understood-within-the-context word American after only those.
You're making no point except word games. Like you really think she doesn't value the help of the Australians because she only said red, white, and blue? Then why didn't you mention them? Or any other country helping us there? That would have made what she said look even worse if she had really only meant Americans. But u knew that wasn't what she meant, so you took the absent word as an opportunity to play a word game that would look like a good point about how her thinking dehumanized the enemy.
You're making no point except word games. Like you really think she doesn't value the help of the Australians because she only said red, white, and blue? Then why didn't you mention them? Or any other country helping us there? That would have made what she said look even worse if she had really only meant Americans. But u knew that wasn't what she meant, so you took the absent word as an opportunity to play a word game that would look like a good point about how her thinking dehumanized the enemy.
Calc, stop trying to be a dick. If you don't have an actual point, stop trying to disprove something that doesn't need to be disproved.
Considering I'm the only one on this board that knows poeticDaVinci personally, I think I should speak up on this matter.
I went to play mini golf with her on Sunday. She drove. Hanging from her rearview mirror was a dogtag that said "Love the Soldier, Hate the War."
In no way is Mackenzie a war-hungry, Bush-supporting Conservative. She despises him and his policies almost as much as me. We went to a John Kerry rally together. She doesn't support the war in Iraq by any means.
What she does support, however, is the marine corps. To her, the USMC doesn't represent the Commander in Chief, it represents the protectors of the values of the American Constitution. The fact that some dumbass is in control of them for the next four years doesn't make her any less proud of the prestigious group she plans to join. It also doesn't make her support the men who are out there dying any less.
Way to quote the line you made that assumption from. Nice way to accentuate that you took it out of context, most likely because you don't know what steadfast means.
steadfast - 1. fixed or unchanging; steady 2. firmly loyal or constant; unswerving
No where in that sentence does she even imply that her urge to join the USMC is greater because of anything. All she said was that the reality of death through the passing of someone she knew won't deter her.
Asumption seems to be the word of the moment.
No where in the statement you cited did poeticDaVinci mention anything about Iraq. Yet, you continued to rant about how Iraq isn't for our freedom and probably got a nice satisfaction out of thinking you "owned" her. Too bad her statement was a general idea about the marine corps and their historic purpose. Did the marines that helped to disband the Taliban, an organization that supported and harbored terroritsts, not help slow down the terrorists? Are there not marines out there currently trying to hunt down bin Laden and the others? If she doesn't cite the marines in Iraq, don't assume she's supporting the mission in that country.
To assume makes an ASS out of U.
Umm, I'm not sure how serious Jokerman was so I didn't reply to him.
However, my "actual point" is that she made out American troops are special in some way while drenching her post in good ol' US cliches. And a lot of Americans think like this. As such I thought I'd point out that it wasn't actually true & well, I think my case was made the second she replied to me.
And oh, I'm not trying to be a dick. If I were, I would have upset your friend ten fold easily.
However, my "actual point" is that she made out American troops are special in some way while drenching her post in good ol' US cliches. And a lot of Americans think like this. As such I thought I'd point out that it wasn't actually true & well, I think my case was made the second she replied to me.
And oh, I'm not trying to be a dick. If I were, I would have upset your friend ten fold easily.
This is harsh.
I think most of are against the United States military overall. I don't care about Bush.
The fact is that this government/military is the cause of September 11th:
"Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims -- that we hate freedom --let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?" It is known that those who hate freedom don't have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. May the mercy of God be upon them.
We fought with you because we are free, and we don't put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you.
I wonder about you. Although we are ushering the fourth year after 9/11, Bush is still exercising confusion and misleading you and not telling you the true reason. Therefore, the motivations are still there for what happened to be repeated.
And I will talk to you about the reason for those events, and I will be honest with you about the moments the decision was made so that you can ponder. And I tell you, God only knows, that we never had the intentions to destroy the towers.
But after the injustice was so much and we saw transgressions and the coalition between Americans and the Israelis against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it occurred to my mind that we deal with the towers. And these special events that directly and personally affected me go back to 1982 and what happened when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon. And assistance was given by the American sixth fleet.
During those crucial moments, my mind was thinking about many things that are hard to describe. But they produced a feeling to refuse and reject injustice, and I had determination to punish the transgressors.
And as I was looking at those towers that were destroyed in Lebanon, it occurred to me that we have to punish the transgressor with the same -- and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children."
-Osama bin Laden October 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/bin.laden.transcript/
Doesn't anyone want to know WHY we were attacked? What did our country do to deserve this?
The war on terror is bullshit. You've been brainwashed. The cause of this is OUR TERROR against them. Everytime an Israeli tank runs over little kids, and everytime a house is raided and families are sent to jail. Our occupation of Iraq is another example.
We started it, and they struck back. How do we stop terrorism? FREE PALESTINE. But what do they do? Send more people over with more guns. "Let's start another war!" We stuck our hands in an oven, and we got burned. It's as simple as that. Your proud military is the center. Insurgents are not terrorists. They're liberators, just like the crafters of your beloved Constitution. They know their country is occupied, and they know we want their oil. So what are they gonna do? Fight back. Resistance.
What's sad is this brainwashing. These kids are willing to participate in these wars, this oppression. This government lies to us, and they've become corrupted. Please...I have the deepest sympathy for those killed. Don't become one of them.
Peace.
In her first post, she said:
He gave his life in the name of liberty
How else should i interpret that then?
Congratulations writing a big smack of text for nothing. :thumb:
And it strikes me as odd than anyone would join the armed forces when disagreeing with the current regime or wars. Don't complain if you get killed either.
Oh, and btw, your homegirl made this thread
http://www.2pacboard.com/forum/thread141490.html
saying how she agrees with the Iraq war.
So you ASSUMED that I must be assuming.
Idiot.
I did it because you said that
"my feelings about becoming a Marine are as steadfast as ever. It's the same with all the other recruits from my station."
and all this other patriotic stuff. To me, I look at this and think you're in a dream world.
You are, as a US Marine, not an underdog. You are not defending our people, you're offending the whole planet. You go over to this land that has nothing to do with us, and you take over and run shit. The US military, whether the army, navy, marines, coast guard, air force, or whatever. You represent the prison guard over the rest of the world. You are a pawn, and it saddens me.
It's sad that your friend shed his blood so that the rich can keep living in luxury here, and the US can still bully the poor nations all over the world. The Department of Defense is a waste of money. Money that OUR people could use to repair their lives.
We need more peacemakers, not more warriors. You wanna be a patriot to your people (NOT your government or Constitution-that's not the people)? Then join the Peace Corps. or help our own suffering here in America. Don't put your gun up and travel around the world, away from your family, to command a place that we don't belong in. Make love, not war.
Peace.
I don't know why you quote me for this post, but I had been saying this before that tape bin Laden released.
They don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we try to impose ourselves upon them. I don't agree with us doing that, but I also don't agree with them flying a plane into the World Trade Center and killing thousands of innocent civilians.
You're arguing that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Well in turn, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. It's a never ending circle, we could debate which side deserves what forever.
They don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we try to impose ourselves upon them. I don't agree with us doing that, but I also don't agree with them flying a plane into the World Trade Center and killing thousands of innocent civilians.
You're arguing that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Well in turn, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. It's a never ending circle, we could debate which side deserves what forever.
Duke said:
In her first post, she said:
He gave his life in the name of liberty
How else should i interpret that then?
Congratulations writing a big smack of text for nothing. :thumb:
And it strikes me as odd than anyone would join the armed forces when disagreeing with the current regime or wars. Don't complain if you get killed either.
Oh, and btw, your homegirl made this thread
http://www.2pacboard.com/forum/thread141490.html
saying how she agrees with the Iraq war.
So you ASSUMED that I must be assuming.
Idiot.
Was Iraq fucked up under Saddam? Yes. Did we fuck it up more? Yes. Should we leave it in shambles? No.
You keep reading more into what's she's saying and putting words into her mouth. Stop trying to find hidden meanings behind every post. Read it for what it is.
The side that is being unfair deserves to be bad guy, the side that is oppressing and the side that is occupying and the side that rules with an iron fist (Israel) and the side who supports that (USA). It's us. Our military is the oppressor. Our government doesn't wanna leave them alone. We are not helping anyone. They woulda never stepped a foot on our soil if it wasn't for us being there.
The taliban did not harbor terrorists. They were trying to help rebels liberate Palestine. THAT'S why I quoted you. Your "prestigeous" Marines fought a "war on terror" against Palestinian freedom fighters. Israel is holding them captive on their own land. US Marines fought a war to continue this oppression. That's what oppressors do. They are fighting to keep people oppressed. That is not honorable.
Peace.
*EDIT
I forgot to say...I don't agree with 9/11 either, and I know a lot of innocent people and children were killed. I don't think it was right, but we've gotta look at ourselves and ask ourselves what we did to deserve it. Our government has been corrupt for such a long time. I'm trying to change this. I'm trying to get people (poeticdavinci) to realize that joining them is not gonna honor the victims of that day, and it's not gonna make the world better. We need to make sure that war is stopped, because that, and only that, will prevent destruction and death. We need to make peace, and help, instead of fight. If we can do this, those people will not have died in vain.
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