Quran and the Bible; the differences of Jesus

[feichen]

i heard some phellastinian saying that the Abraham from the jews is a different Abraham than the one from the Christians and a different Abraham than that of the muslims.

He also said the same counted for Moses, Jesus and all them ...
with this he justified the occupation of the holy templemountain by the el asqa mosque.

is it true they are different ? cuz i dont think so...

 

[Khaled]

In the Quran it says that people went to Mary and started questioning who was the child's father, then Jesus defended his mother by saying something which I can't really remember.

yup, that's it,
i think he says "I am God's servant" whereas Christians say "I am God's son"

 

[not really ken]

i heard some phellastinian saying that the Abraham from the jews is a different Abraham than the one from the Christians and a different Abraham than that of the muslims.

He also said the same counted for Moses, Jesus and all them ...
with this he justified the occupation of the holy templemountain by the el asqa mosque.

is it true they are different ? cuz i dont think so...

no there's only one Abraham.

 

[Kareem]

Hey Ruk or whoever wants heres a good site that explains alot of the differences between the Bible an the Quran.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

 

[Rukas]

thats true in the niv an english versions it does say that but if you ever get the chance or have any Jewish friends that read or speak Hebrew get them to get you a copy of the Hebrew Bible an read it to you, an you can see how badly the english version has been currupted examples are in the Hebrew Bible it says the last an final prophet is Mohummad. just my 2 cents Salaam

Sorry but not true, Jesus talks about the Counselor coming, the spirit of truth. This is reference to the Holy Spirit that came down after Jesus was resurrected. Mohummad is never mentioned in the Bible.

You can choose to understand that the spirit if truth is Mohummad because that is what you have been brought up to believe, but I fail to see any indication that Jesus meant Mohummad.

 

[Rukas]

^^ Lets not resort to posting links off Google, that site is written by Muslims for Muslims, and thus is natrually biased.

 

[Rukas]

Ken, what does the Quran mention about the 12 Holy Apostles, what about Jesus as a man, does it say he was married unmarried etc etc?

 

[Rukas]

No in the bible they don't say that he could talk with animals and no, he started preachin as a man, not as a child. There isn't much known about his teenager years, at least nothing written down in the bible, therefor we believe that he was a pretty normal child.

I'm always amazed how close the two religions in fact are and I hate that anyone always sees what seperates from what could unite us.

The Bible says he was preaching at about the age of 12. Astounding the elders in the temple with his knowledge and wisdom.

 

[tupacmansion]

^^^^
I think that is confirmed in the Quran

3:45 O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ
Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the
company of) those nearest to Allah.

3:46 “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the
company) of the righteous.”

3:48 And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel.

 

[Rukas]

^^^^
I think that is confirmed in the Quran

Yes be have established that this is what the Quran says. If you had read the first post of this thread you would have noticed its not about finding truth or convincing people who is wrong or right or arguing over who is wrong or right, but rather about finding out the differences in both books and respecting each other enough not to get preachy.

So yes, we know the Quran says that Jesus spoke as an infant, the Bible however does not.

 

[not really ken]

Sorry but not true, Jesus talks about the Counselor coming, the spirit of truth. This is reference to the Holy Spirit that came down after Jesus was resurrected. Mohummad is never mentioned in the Bible.

You can choose to understand that the spirit if truth is Mohummad because that is what you have been brought up to believe, but I fail to see any indication that Jesus meant Mohummad.

this is another claissical example. IN hebrew the jesus talks about 'the comforter' coming, not only that but Moses in the torah talks about another prophet like unto himself. Christians acknowlege and conclude that Moses talks about Jesus. Both jews and muslims conclude that it wasn't jesus. Why? Simply because Moses said unto like ME.
“Deuteronomy 18:18 says that God would raise up a prophet like Moses from among their brothers. The Israelites (the Jews) and the Ishmaelites (Arabs) were brothers. The prophecy states that ‘I will put my words in his mouth and he will tell them everything I command him.’


eg
Moses and Mohammed married - jesus unmarried
Moses and Mohammed children - jesus no children
Moses and Mohammed natural death - jesus stange or abnormal deth
Moses And Mohammed normal birth- Jesus 'strange birth'
" " fathers - Jesus no father
" " prophet & statesman- jesus prophet
" " both forced emigration - jesus none
" " holy books written in lifetime- jesus, no book
" " taught spiritual and legal- jesus only spiritual
and the list goes on and on.
Christians say the above verse is attributed simply because jesus and moses were jews and prophets.

also the second part of the prophecie "words into his mouth" ties in with the Quraan because a few verses of the quran are written as such that it was God who commanded Mohammed to speak at times he was asked difficult questions, these verse in the quran start with SAY.........

i' come back on the comforter point

 

[Nut]

Jesus was born a Jew, but the Jews chose not the follow him or believe in him, hence Jesus teaching branched off from the Jewish church into what was called the Jerusalem Church and later into Christianity.

Christianity didn't excist in the time of Jesus, all the believers in God were Jewish so can you enlighten me on what you mean plz.

 

[Rukas]

this is another claissical example. IN hebrew the jesus talks about 'the comforter' coming, not only that but Moses in the torah talks about another prophet like unto himself. Christians acknowlege and conclude that Moses talks about Jesus. Both jews and muslims conclude that it wasn't jesus. Why? Simply because Moses said unto like ME.
“Deuteronomy 18:18 says that God would raise up a prophet like Moses from among their brothers. The Israelites (the Jews) and the Ishmaelites (Arabs) were brothers. The prophecy states that ‘I will put my words in his mouth and he will tell them everything I command him.’


eg
Moses and Mohammed married - jesus unmarried
Moses and Mohammed children - jesus no children
Moses and Mohammed natural death - jesus stange or abnormal deth
Moses And Mohammed normal birth- Jesus 'strange birth'
" " fathers - Jesus no father
" " prophet & statesman- jesus prophet
" " both forced emigration - jesus none
" " holy books written in lifetime- jesus, no book
" " taught spiritual and legal- jesus only spiritual
and the list goes on and on.
Christians say the above verse is attributed simply because jesus and moses were jews and prophets.

also the second part of the prophecie "words into his mouth" ties in with the Quraan because a few verses of the quran are written as such that it was God who commanded Mohammed to speak at times he was asked difficult questions, these verse in the quran start with SAY.........

i' come back on the comforter point

That depends on your interpretation of the text, you can interpret it to fit what you want it to and I can to fit what I want to. This is the major problem with all religions and Islam in particular.

My friend, whom this thread sparked off, told me an interesting thing. The Quran clearly states that banks should not charge interest on money, the Islamic priests taught this from the beginning, but now, suddenly because it doesnt suit what they want to believe, they are saying "oh wait, we interpreted it wrong, now we can see the Quran allows interest on money." Why does this happen? Outside influence and people wanting to believe what they want.

Thats why I didnt want this thread to turn into a discussion on who says what why. I just wanted a list of differences, not preachy explanations ken. Its obvious that as a Muslim you are biased to interpret things to fit what you believe. You are a rational man so I am sure you see this.

As for your list, there is evidence to suggest Jesus was married, and may have fathered a child. There is also believed to be a lost text written by Christ, either lost or hidden by established super religion powers like the Vatican. Jesus was probably also a direct descendent of King David, making him the real King of the Jews and a statement, and the emigration could be interpreted metaphorically. So as you see, the prophecy does fit, unless you don’t want it to fit and you disregard things.

 

[Rukas]

Christianity didn't excist in the time of Jesus, all the believers in God were Jewish so can you enlighten me on what you mean plz.

I never said the Christian Church existed during the time of Jesus, I said Jesus' teaching developed into the Christian Church.

But this is off topic. Stick to the topic !

 

[not really ken]

That depends on your interpretation of the text, you can interpret it to fit what you want it to and I can to fit what I want to. This is the major problem with all religions and Islam in particular.

My friend, whom this thread sparked off, told me an interesting thing. The Quran clearly states that banks should not charge interest on money, the Islamic priests taught this from the beginning, but now, suddenly because it doesnt suit what they want to believe, they are saying "oh wait, we interpreted it wrong, now we can see the Quran allows interest on money." Why does this happen? Outside influence and people wanting to believe what they want.

Thats why I didnt want this thread to turn into a discussion on who says what why. I just wanted a list of differences, not preachy explanations ken. Its obvious that as a Muslim you are biased to interpret things to fit what you believe. You are a rational man so I am sure you see this.

As for your list, there is evidence to suggest Jesus was married, and may have fathered a child. There is also believed to be a lost text written by Christ, either lost or hidden by established super religion powers like the Vatican. Jesus was probably also a direct descendent of King David, making him the real King of the Jews and a statement, and the emigration could be interpreted metaphorically. So as you see, the prophecy does fit, unless you don’t want it to fit and you disregard things.

Whoever spoke to you has shown a deep misunderstanding of Islamic Jurisprudence. Im talking of the Interset issue. give him my MSN address if you want. The Quran does not allow Interest money, this is forbidden with a lot of force. But let me tell you something about Shariah law. Muslims do not worship the Shariah law, the shariah law (which governs all aspects of worldly issues) is there to protect the community. If the shariah law stops protecting the community then that law can be broken. Why? because then the laws are not fulfilling their purpose, which is to protect us, not hinder us. THen coninuing this, islam is based on accountability, you may 'get away' with it here, but you will be held accountable. this is the concept which stops us from the hypocrisy of breaking shaiah without hardship of lawful reason.
your friend saying that 'priests' allowing interest is unture, I don't understand where he got that from. the goalposts of shariah never move.



You say I interpret thigs differently cos of bias. Well your also a rational man, there have been two opinions on what the prohecy of Moses was meaning. Either it reffered to Jesus as the Christians say or it refers to Mohammed. Things is, there are not alot of possibilities. And the criteria is "the one who is more like Moses". The interpretation can only lead to one of two conclusion, it wouldn't be very difficult to conclude then. Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus becasue, like Moses, Jesus was a jew and a prophet. And I have listen the similarities between Moses and Mohammed, you may not want to get into this issue. but these facts cannot be ignored. You say that the shoe could be fitted. Well, your interpretations are very far fetched and based on maybe, could have been. Wheras the similairties I have made are clear and factual, no metaphore or nothing. It's funny how the Christains don't push there biased agenda with the same connections you are trying to pull out of the hat (to prove a point of interpretations).
but anyway............

the apostles you ask off. Johns prophethood is confirmend in the Quran (was he an apostle Im not sure). but what I do know, is that most of the prophets mentioned in the bible are mentioned in the Quran, including zacharia, jonah including the story of jonah being in the belly of the fish. no, no mention of the apostles, just mention of the resurrection jesus.

 

[Rukas]

Whoever spoke to you has shown a deep misunderstanding of Islamic Jurisprudence. Im talking of the Interset issue. give him my MSN address if you want. The Quran does not allow Interest money, this is forbidden with a lot of force. But let me tell you something about Shariah law. Muslims do not worship the Shariah law, the shariah law (which governs all aspects of worldly issues) is there to protect the community. If the shariah law stops protecting the community then that law can be broken. Why? because then the laws are not fulfilling their purpose, which is to protect us, not hinder us. THen coninuing this, islam is based on accountability, you may 'get away' with it here, but you will be held accountable. this is the concept which stops us from the hypocrisy of breaking shaiah without hardship of lawful reason.
your friend saying that 'priests' allowing interest is unture, I don't understand where he got that from. the goalposts of shariah never move.

No sorry you are wrong, Ill take his word over yours any day of the week. He doesnt chat on MSN, hes 40 years old, a business man in Dubai, grew up in Saudia Arabia, spent 15 years there studying, but is Egyptian by birth. He has travelled all thru the middle east and the world with his work. And he told me, from first hand experiance, he has seen it preached now that interest is fine and its alright for the banks to charge interest. YOU can deny this all you like and pretend you know better than me or him, but he has experianced it first hand, and as a man of Muslim faith, why would he lie?

You say I interpret thigs differently cos of bias. Well your also a rational man, there have been two opinions on what the prohecy of Moses was meaning. Either it reffered to Jesus as the Christians say or it refers to Mohammed. Things is, there are not alot of possibilities. And the criteria is "the one who is more like Moses". The interpretation can only lead to one of two conclusion, it wouldn't be very difficult to conclude then. Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus becasue, like Moses, Jesus was a jew and a prophet. And I have listen the similarities between Moses and Mohammed, you may not want to get into this issue. but these facts cannot be ignored. You say that the shoe could be fitted. Well, your interpretations are very far fetched and based on maybe, could have been. Wheras the similairties I have made are clear and factual, no metaphore or nothing. It's funny how the Christains don't push there biased agenda with the same connections you are trying to pull out of the hat (to prove a point of interpretations).
but anyway............

Man, now im just getting pissed off. Why can you, and people like you, never have a conversation without making it personal or trying to prove the other person wrong?

Get this into your head, I never fucking said I was right. This thread isnt about discussing who is right, why the fuck do you have to turn this into a Islam vs. Christianity thread? Its not about that!!!

Im so fucking sick of people like you turning everything in WoW into a fight of "what I believe is right and what you believe is wrong!"

Sure Christians are biased towards their belief, I never said they werent, they are just like you are biased to your muslim beliefs.

THATS WHY THIS THREAD WASNT ABOUT COMPARING BELIEF AND INTERPRETAION, BUT ABOUT DIRECTLY COMPARING TEXT.

Great, another thread ruined.

the apostles you ask off. Johns prophethood is confirmend in the Quran (was he an apostle Im not sure). but what I do know, is that most of the prophets mentioned in the bible are mentioned in the Quran, including zacharia, jonah including the story of jonah being in the belly of the fish. no, no mention of the apostles, just mention of the resurrection jesus.

So no mention of Jesus' 12 followers?

Interesting. And thanks, at least that was on topic!

 

[not really ken]

No sorry you are wrong, Ill take his word over yours any day of the week. He doesnt chat on MSN, hes 40 years old, a business man in Dubai, grew up in Saudia Arabia, spent 15 years there studying, but is Egyptian by birth. He has travelled all thru the middle east and the world with his work. And he told me, from first hand experiance, he has seen it preached now that interest is fine and its alright for the banks to charge interest. YOU can deny this all you like and pretend you know better than me or him, but he has experianced it first hand, and as a man of Muslim faith, why would he lie?

Islam prohibits interest to the core. It forbids interest to the point that it's not even funny. So this guy says that he has heard it preached. tell me, did he agree with it himself. Im sure as a man of muslim faith he would have voiced what he thinks the facts are. And if he said that interest is ok in islam, then i'll let some other muslim on this board say it that this friend of yours is in disbelief. the fact that he has 'experienced Arabia' and is basing is 'facts' on the experiences of Arabia adds more weight to the presumtion that dude is wrong( arabia has been fucked for the past 10 years minimum, real scholars have been locked up in all the arab countries and the ones that push the agenda of the ruling families are the ones 'teaching'). Basic knowledge of Islam makes it clear that interest is forbidden in Islam to accept on someone say so that the Quranic injunctions are wrong is disbelief, thats not me saying it, thats just how it is. Im not denying something whic his of my opinion, this is the islamic shariah. Rukas at the risk of sounding arrogant, your friend is wrong, any muslims on this board would confirm that. I don't think he would lie, but what exactly did he tell you. the fact that people are allowing it, or that he thinks it is ok and the quran was wrong, or what?

Man, now im just getting pissed off. Why can you, and people like you, never have a conversation without making it personal or trying to prove the other person wrong?

Get this into your head, I never fucking said I was right. This thread isnt about discussing who is right, why the fuck do you have to turn this into a Islam vs. Christianity thread? Its not about that!!!

Im so fucking sick of people like you turning everything in WoW into a fight of "what I believe is right and what you believe is wrong!"

Sure Christians are biased towards their belief, I never said they werent, they are just like you are biased to your muslim beliefs.

THATS WHY THIS THREAD WASNT ABOUT COMPARING BELIEF AND INTERPRETAION, BUT ABOUT DIRECTLY COMPARING TEXT.

Great, another thread ruined.

other people started doing that also, it was a response at them as well as you
So no mention of Jesus' 12 followers?

Interesting. And thanks, at least that was on topic![/QUOTE]

 

[Rukas]

Islam prohibits interest to the core. It forbids interest to the point that it's not even funny. So this guy says that he has heard it preached. tell me, did he agree with it himself. Im sure as a man of muslim faith he would have voiced what he thinks the facts are. And if he said that interest is ok in islam, then i'll let some other muslim on this board say it that this friend of yours is in disbelief. the fact that he has 'experienced Arabia' and is basing is 'facts' on the experiences of Arabia adds more weight to the presumtion that dude is wrong( arabia has been fucked for the past 10 years minimum). Basic knowledge of Islam makes it clear that interest is forbidden in Islam to accept on someone say so that the Quranic injunctions are wrong is disbelief, thats not me saying it, thats just how it is. Im not denying something whic his of my opinion, this is the islamic shariah. Rukas at the risk of sounding arrogant, your friend is wrong, any muslims on this board would confirm that. I don't think he would lie, but what exactly did he tell you. the fact that people are allowing it, or that he thinks it is ok and the quran was wrong, or what?

Great so now you'll jump on the defensive so hard that you'll try to degrade a man whom you dont even know.

For your information, no he didnt agree with it. He stated the Quran strictly states interest is wrong. So once again Ken, you're trying to fight an argument that has no foundation in anything in this thread LOL. Why are you always defensive when it comes to Islam? Why do you jump to conclusions and defend it when it doesnt need to be defended.

No my friend doesnt agree with it, he sees it happen, and knows its an example of people twisting the Quran for their own gain, just like suicide bombers do. That was the converstation.

So now that youve ranted on and preached about stuff no one is disagreeing with, again, can we move on with the topic? Actually, Id like an apology.

 

[Khaled]

^^ just wanted to say that "interest" can be understood differently, and also, there's a whole new banking system known as "Islamic banking" that has been set in place that is supposed to abide by the muslim beliefs.

 

[not really ken]

but what exactly did he tell you. the fact that people are allowing it, or that he thinks it is ok and the quran was wrong, or what?

the above sentence to me sounds like an admittance of not knowing the full facts of what exactly was said

tell me, did he agree with it himself. Im sure as a man of muslim faith he would have voiced what he thinks the facts are. And if he said that interest is ok in islam,

The whole 'degregation' (since when has disagreement been synonomous with degrading) stems from a hypothetical scenario. 'if he agreed with it then.....' But you now say he didn't agree with it. I never said that he did agree with it.

And if he didn't agree with it, like you have told me now after I asked you, then me and him are on a level playing field which doesn't need any kind of expanding and or continuing of conversation.

Why are you always defensive when it comes to Islam? Why do you jump to conclusions and defend it when it doesnt need to be defended.

you said that your friend had heard other scholars saying 'interest is ok in'. You never continued and killed that notion by also stating that your friend had said it was wrong though, so I jumped in and removed any confusion before any could be built up. Although I understand you used that only as an example to push a different point (of interpretations) it's a reflex action from me as always, there's already enoguh misundertanding aganist Islam. I apologise for trying to remove confusion.