Omnipotent Benevolence
- Thread starter -Daniel-
- Start date
Thankyou.
In Dan Browns terms, that's the view of an illuminatus, a scientist. Science looks for explanations to things we can't comprehend. Tell me... Is the world flat? 500 years ago we thought the earth was flat. So much humans know, and that is science.
Is it really so hard to believe that this just happened through an act of God? And I'm not talking about the consequences, I'm talking about the cause.
In Dan Browns terms, that's the view of an illuminatus, a scientist. Science looks for explanations to things we can't comprehend. Tell me... Is the world flat? 500 years ago we thought the earth was flat. So much humans know, and that is science.
Is it really so hard to believe that this just happened through an act of God? And I'm not talking about the consequences, I'm talking about the cause.
Religion vs. science? You don't wanna go there, homie. One name: Galileo Galilei. Let's see, he had his shit straight about 4 centuries ago.
And when did the Catholic church acknowledge the man? Less than 20 years ago.
"Science looks for explanations to things we can't comprehend."
And what's religion doing then? Of course science looks for answers to the unknown. That's the inquisitive human spirit.
The difference is in that scientists can say "damn, fellas, we don't quite understand this yet", for example how the universe came into being. Science does not know that (yet).
And what says our religion? "oh yeah, God did that".
....
2000 years ago, man did't understand lightning. Now we know. It's the particles attracting each other and all that.
But what did they say 2000 years ago?
"Oh yeah, that's Thor riding the heavens with his chariot and slamming the skies with his maul, thus creating lightning and thunder"
Over the course of centuries, science has continually gained a bit on religion as man is ever better able to explain things through science. 500 years ago it was in fact the church who was so convinced and sure that the earth was flat, that anyone who even tried to argue it got burned at the stake.
But, of course, the last 5 minutes i spent typing are an utter and total waste of my time. Luckily enough, I've learned about 2 years ago that arguing with religionists leads absolutely to nowhere as they tend to ignore your arguments and instead refer to the Bible or whatever holy book that supposedly knows it all.
For which they again have no explanation.
Great...
Co-sign!
Not to hate on 'believers' but this is all true & that last paragraph hits the nail on the head. While we may not 'believe', if a god came to earth & proved he/she was a god (by performing some extreme miracles) then we would concede to 'believers' that, despite what we had previously believed, there was in fact a god.
On the other hand, no matter how long 'believers' go without any solid proof of god, & in the face of a bunch of shit that contradicts his existence, they will never concede that 'maybe there ain't a god after all'.
Big up to Duke!
John Wayne don't have shit on you man.....
Not to hate on 'believers' but this is all true & that last paragraph hits the nail on the head. While we may not 'believe', if a god came to earth & proved he/she was a god (by performing some extreme miracles) then we would concede to 'believers' that, despite what we had previously believed, there was in fact a god.
On the other hand, no matter how long 'believers' go without any solid proof of god, & in the face of a bunch of shit that contradicts his existence, they will never concede that 'maybe there ain't a god after all'.
Big up to Duke!
John Wayne don't have shit on you man.....
This is not a case about forgettin' but a case of trials and tribulations. From the Islamic perspective, this world is a abode of trials and tribulations. God said in the Qur'an (67:2):
He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving and Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere(2:155). Similiary in (29:2), Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?.
All these verses indicate that this world is nothin' more but an abode of tests since God told us in the Qur'an that you will successfully pass them if you preserve patiently. That is the object of life and not shunning and denyin' the trials.
Additionaly, the trials constitutes of good and evil whether great or small things as God said in (21:35), Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.
The Prophet (P) has been reported to have said that the hour will not come until knowledge is taken away, earthquakes become numerous, time passes quickly, tribulations appear, chaos reigns –that is to say widespread killing; [it will not occur] until wealth becomes abundant among you, to a point where it is superfluous.
God not only created this universe but He also explains in the Qur'an how it was created (Big bang theory). Dr. Maurice Bucaille discusses that when he compares the stages of creation in the light of modern science. He discusses that in his book THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE located at
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
The specific chapter that deals with the Creation is located at http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/16creation.htm
'bunch of shits' that contradicts His existence? That's interestin'. I want you to post one established scientific fact that opposses the existence of God. Intelligent Design which is the most plausible and supported theory thus far acknowledges the existence of God.
Are we jumpin' on the stereotype wagon. I'd love to debate about religion, particulary Islam. I've never ignored arguments when it comes to religion. Perhaps we could discuss any arguments that you've got when it comes to Islam. Can you point out any incompatibly with Modern Science in the Qur'an. I'd also like to point out that if you can meet the challenge of producin' ONE surah (Chapter) as Allah SWT said in the Qur'an:
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.
If you flat out reject the Qur'an, then the challenge of producin' a Chapter would be quite simple. And yet many have tried and failed throughout the last 1400 years.
Also, like I mentioned in many threads, reasonin' and the pursuit of knowledge has always been emphasised in the Qur'an and the Hadiths. Ergo, why the ancient Muslims were so eager to learn and research.
Peace
He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving and Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere(2:155). Similiary in (29:2), Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?.
All these verses indicate that this world is nothin' more but an abode of tests since God told us in the Qur'an that you will successfully pass them if you preserve patiently. That is the object of life and not shunning and denyin' the trials.
Additionaly, the trials constitutes of good and evil whether great or small things as God said in (21:35), Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.
The Prophet (P) has been reported to have said that the hour will not come until knowledge is taken away, earthquakes become numerous, time passes quickly, tribulations appear, chaos reigns –that is to say widespread killing; [it will not occur] until wealth becomes abundant among you, to a point where it is superfluous.
God not only created this universe but He also explains in the Qur'an how it was created (Big bang theory). Dr. Maurice Bucaille discusses that when he compares the stages of creation in the light of modern science. He discusses that in his book THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE located at
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
The specific chapter that deals with the Creation is located at http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/16creation.htm
'bunch of shits' that contradicts His existence? That's interestin'. I want you to post one established scientific fact that opposses the existence of God. Intelligent Design which is the most plausible and supported theory thus far acknowledges the existence of God.
Are we jumpin' on the stereotype wagon. I'd love to debate about religion, particulary Islam. I've never ignored arguments when it comes to religion. Perhaps we could discuss any arguments that you've got when it comes to Islam. Can you point out any incompatibly with Modern Science in the Qur'an. I'd also like to point out that if you can meet the challenge of producin' ONE surah (Chapter) as Allah SWT said in the Qur'an:
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.
If you flat out reject the Qur'an, then the challenge of producin' a Chapter would be quite simple. And yet many have tried and failed throughout the last 1400 years.
Also, like I mentioned in many threads, reasonin' and the pursuit of knowledge has always been emphasised in the Qur'an and the Hadiths. Ergo, why the ancient Muslims were so eager to learn and research.
Peace
Peace,
I've discussed this in one of the old threads
. You cannot prove the existence of Allah (God) in the same way that you can prove the existence of a physical object. Allah (God) is a Transcendental bein' in the sense that we cannot perceive him with our sensual perception. Or in others words, he is existin' beyound our level. We humans have a finite comphrension and reasonin' powers. So to proof the existence of a Transcendental bein' is irrelevant since we posses shortcomings. However, Allah (God) told us in the Qur'an that we should we ponder over the phenomena of the world around us and offcourse, its complexities. Thus, if we study the creation of Allah (God) as he instructed the Muslims to do that, we would conclude the existence of God and that he is behind everythin'. Let's say that the universe is a manuscript. Some people focus only on the letters while they will remain illiterate. They will never comprehend the manuscript no matter how many times they look at it. While the others will look at the text with a open-minded view and trascend its external aspects.
Perhaps you could reflect on this quote of a famous philosopher named Francis Bacon who stated that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.
Peace
I've discussed this in one of the old threads
. You cannot prove the existence of Allah (God) in the same way that you can prove the existence of a physical object. Allah (God) is a Transcendental bein' in the sense that we cannot perceive him with our sensual perception. Or in others words, he is existin' beyound our level. We humans have a finite comphrension and reasonin' powers. So to proof the existence of a Transcendental bein' is irrelevant since we posses shortcomings. However, Allah (God) told us in the Qur'an that we should we ponder over the phenomena of the world around us and offcourse, its complexities. Thus, if we study the creation of Allah (God) as he instructed the Muslims to do that, we would conclude the existence of God and that he is behind everythin'. Let's say that the universe is a manuscript. Some people focus only on the letters while they will remain illiterate. They will never comprehend the manuscript no matter how many times they look at it. While the others will look at the text with a open-minded view and trascend its external aspects. Perhaps you could reflect on this quote of a famous philosopher named Francis Bacon who stated that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.
Peace
Yahya, I respect what you're saying (obviously from a knowledgeable position) but I find that to fall back on, 'we can't understand something so great', is all too convenient at times.
To use a Holy Book to prove your point is meaningless as I, like many athiests, cannot accept a Holy Book as a legitimate reference as, while containing much knowledge, there is bound to be promotion of superstition & quite simply, I don't believe.
While you talk of 'literacy', it could just as easily be the 'believers' who are so illiterate that they cannot see reality for complex superstition.
I mean, while Muslims may have complete faith in God, I have complete faith in my beliefs. Too often is it implied that if you can't come to terms with 'the existence of God' then you are somehow blinded. This argument however, as I think you will well know, is one that is also presented by athiests.
Also, while I appreciate you contributing stimulating quotes (no sarcasm), Francis Bacon can create 'profound' statements all he wants & you can continue to quote them, but in the end, you'll need something more than a piece of unproven philosophy to convince me that there is a God.
To use a Holy Book to prove your point is meaningless as I, like many athiests, cannot accept a Holy Book as a legitimate reference as, while containing much knowledge, there is bound to be promotion of superstition & quite simply, I don't believe.
While you talk of 'literacy', it could just as easily be the 'believers' who are so illiterate that they cannot see reality for complex superstition.
I mean, while Muslims may have complete faith in God, I have complete faith in my beliefs. Too often is it implied that if you can't come to terms with 'the existence of God' then you are somehow blinded. This argument however, as I think you will well know, is one that is also presented by athiests.
Also, while I appreciate you contributing stimulating quotes (no sarcasm), Francis Bacon can create 'profound' statements all he wants & you can continue to quote them, but in the end, you'll need something more than a piece of unproven philosophy to convince me that there is a God.
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