His ways are not our ways, but His ways are always best.

[Preach]

Elaborate, please.

I'm gonna wait for Jokerman anyway, because he puts a lot of good thoughts into very understandable words. But I'll give you an example from my own experience. A little treat from Preach.

For about three years I was desperately in love with a girl I couldn't have. I had to confront her about my feelings, get shut down, and then she moved away, before the situation got resolved. My life's energy felt so drained after she moved, I didn't do shit for six months. I didn't work, lived off savings, I didn't go out with friends. I just buried myself at home. Getting high, playing games, watching shows, etc. Towards the end there, I was reading Batman comics I had downloaded in pdf format, on my computer. I moved my couch in front of the computer, and only left to go to the store to get munch, or to go take a bong hit. True story.

Then things balanced out a little. Don't get me wrong, I was still in a very dark place, but having been at a bottom and on my way up, life felt easier for about a year. I got another job, and a coincidental chain of positive events kept me going for about a year. Doing good at work in the start-up phase, going to some seminars, getting along great with my co-workers, there were several isolated experiences that worked like fuel to my happiness. After about a year I met this girl. Now, at first there weren't really any feelings involved from me. A lot of people might remember the thread about some guy that got attacked. That was her ex. Also, she was a druggie like me, and I'm a self-rightous asshole. I was very sceptical, because I considered myself different to "those type of people" even though I was one of them. For several different reasons I treaded lightly, because I wasn't sure if she was a good girl or not, and I didn't want to commit to someone that might fuck me over. I did like how it made me feel, and I'm not gonna lie. I really, really wanted to have sex.

Anyway, as horrible as it may sound, hooking up with girls was the one thing I always wanted but never got. Purely looks wise, I'm the lesser in the bunch as far as me and my friends are concerned, and they would frequently hook up with chicks, and ditch them. Whereas, it was such a big desire of mine to have a girl that I've always taken whatever I could get. Well, coincidentally me and this girl fit well together, and feelings started developing. The past year and a half was bliss. I started losing weight, I felt really good about myself, and on a personal level a lot more things started to make sense. I got a whole different understanding about the concept of a guy and a girl, which rendered most of my lack of confidence obsolete. It did wonderful things for me. Meanwhile, I was in a mental process. I already knew I'd be studying this year, and that I had to quit getting high. She also pressured me a lot to commit more and more. The whole thing turned into a scenario where she kept on pushing and I kept on holding back. This eventually killed it for us, because didn't trust me enough when I moved, so after a while the whole thing went to hell. I started grieving, and we all know how turning sadness into anger makes it all the more livable, so I started thinking that this was her fault, and that she was in the wrong.

I'm gonna cut it short there. Everything I typed up happened over the span of about five or six years. I never had any direction with all my philosophical pondering. It was never really a personal goal of mine to "find myself" until maybe a couple of years ago. I went through the whole I'm-a-nice-guy-and-girls-say-they-want-nice-guys-so-wtf? phase. I hated the women. I hated the world. I remember to at one point having been confident that I was among the nicest people anyone could meet because I was so understanding. I have thought so much stupid shit over the years.

What did I learn? I'm a self-absorbed asshole. I've never been fair in my intent towards any girl I've ever liked. I wasn't the nicest person around, I was the most insecure. I gain some confidence, suddenly I'm demanding certain things my way, I become oblivious to certain types of people that I disagree with, and I'm no longer the nice guy. I never was, I just took advantage of my fear of standing up to people, and turned it into something it wasn't. I learned that I'm shallow, and that my shallow perception of the world is not universal. Neither is it correct, although maybe partially. I learned that I'm lazy. I learned that I've taught how to discourage myself from a lot of things using my own delusional logic. Above all, I learned that my perception of myself that I had always had - a totally open person that doesn't judge, and tries to think outside of the box - was one big cover-up. One cliché is this old guy that has a lot of superficial habits and preferences that are the result of having practiced said habits and preferences for so long it became a force of habit. Your typical, stubborn, conservative person. And then there's this critique that they've let themselves become slaves to a system, or slaves to superficial things that mean nothing. Then there's a bunch of non-conformists who never wants to be like that. Well, I was very much conservative, and through my psychological babble and philosophizing, I had lured myself from seeing the truth: I'm just like everyone else, and none of the bullshit matters.

My point is that it took me 5-6 years and a whole lot of depression and self-pity to realize who I currently think I am. And I'll admit straight up that there's more truths to myself that I am aware of and need to work on, but I'm too unsympathetic and egoistical to do anything about it right now. There's school, then there's exams, then there's a rough patch, then there's the winter. I'll always find a reason to not have to use too much brain energy, because let's face it, trying to change who you are really really sucks for a while, until you get used to the new you. It's like learning to walk again, and twenty years of walking is... I don't wanna have to start over. Anyway, lot of stuff, lot of thoughts, lot of accumulated feelings over several years, three or four really dark periods where I thought my life was blown to hell, and I'm not halfway done yet. I think this may be the pain Jokerman is talking about. And then, my new realizations and changes would be the transcension into my new self, the detatchment from my old beliefs, through understanding who I really am, and eventually surrendering my beliefs to something greater than myself. I mean hey, I'm feeling better than ever before, and every time I stop doing things I do to hide part of who I am and just "come out", I feel even better. Example, I would be mellower when with girls, and harsher when with guys, when the real me was somewhere in between. I broke that cycle, and it's so much easier to just be around people. Okay, fourth edit, I need to do something productive like watch The Office, ttyl.

 

[Jokerman]

Elaborate, please.

I just put some profound-sounding filler in there to balance the paragraph. It has little or no meaning.

Do you mean how do you go about doing this? I can only begin to elaborate here without writing half a book. Ok. Begin by making an honest and detailed inventory of everything you are: every personal quality, moral character, social value, habit, and conditioning. Your list should include every attribute that defines an authentic self for you. Then reflect on each item in your list attentively and note whether you possess it or not. For example, courage is an important attribute for living an authentic life. Without courage, how can you accomplish anything truly worthwhile and noble? How can you stand up for higher values in the face of adversity without courage? Without courage, you are unable to break away from the past, with all its conditionings and unhealthy patterns, in order to accept and embrace who you really are. There comes a time when you have to face what you have become as a result of being inauthentic in your choices and actions and say, That’s not me anymore. It used to be me but today I am someone else. Everything that limits your self-esteem needs to be abandoned, and courage enables you to do that. You no longer identify with the past because the past is dead. It ceases to exist. Moreover, once you have accepted your authentic self, you need to constantly call upon your courage to sustain your authenticity in every life situation and personal encounter you meet.

Investigate where there is distortion in your life. Anything that’s distorted needs to be faced and corrected. When you remove all the illusions you cling to and come face-to-face with the bare truth of who you really are, that’s the moment when your journey begins. You may not be thrilled with the commitment demanded of you, but when you are forced to be brutally honest with yourself, you are creating a new foundation for your life that is on solid ground. There are no more lies and deceptions about who you are. Everything you build on this foundation will help you evolve. We grow up on the day that we realize we are an extension of all the mistakes we have made.

 

[Jokerman]

What did I learn? I'm a self-absorbed asshole. I've never been fair in my intent towards any girl I've ever liked. I wasn't the nicest person around, I was the most insecure. I gain some confidence, suddenly I'm demanding certain things my way, I become oblivious to certain types of people that I disagree with, and I'm no longer the nice guy. I never was, I just took advantage of my fear of standing up to people, and turned it into something it wasn't. I learned that I'm shallow, and that my shallow perception of the world is not universal. Neither is it correct, although maybe partially. I learned that I'm lazy. I learned that I've taught how to discourage myself from a lot of things using my own delusional logic. Above all, I learned that my perception of myself that I had always had - a totally open person that doesn't judge, and tries to think outside of the box - was one big cover-up. One cliché is this old guy that has a lot of superficial habits and preferences that are the result of having practiced said habits and preferences for so long it became a force of habit. Your typical, stubborn, conservative person. And then there's this critique that they've let themselves become slaves to a system, or slaves to superficial things that mean nothing. Then there's a bunch of non-conformists who never wants to be like that. Well, I was very much conservative, and through my psychological babble and philosophizing, I had lured myself from seeing the truth: I'm just like everyone else, and none of the bullshit matters.

That's pretty much what I meant. You have to finally face the dichotomy between who you think you are and who you actually are. And it's painful. But then you need to let that go and every day choose to re-create yourself over again in the eyes of yourself and not the world. You do not get your view of life throught the eyes of others. It's through your own eyes--your authentic eyes--that you see your journey ahead.

There is no need to try to prove yourself to other people. We frustrate ourselves when we try to prove to others that we are deserving of their attention, love, kindness, and respect. That's when we start compromising and adapting to our illusory patterns of ourselves. Instead simply say, This is who I am. Like me and respect me because I know myself. I honor myself and everyone else.

With this acceptance of yourself and others, conflict can dissolve and you can be in balance. Where there's balance, there's harmony. And where there's harmony, there is bliss. In bliss, there's no need to sublimate. When you're not sublimating, then there's no destructive behavior leading to addictions. You will understand that addictions are not diseases because you have discovered the root cause of your struggles and found freedom in your new awareness.

 

[Preach]

I know how this is gonna sound and I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but.. A lot of friends and fellows have confided in me with their inner problems. I was that stoner outsider who had less contact with the group, and had a lot of secrets myself, so I guess they felt comfortable telling me things they wouldn't tell anyone. A lot of the time I'm amazed at how little the average person knows about things like all-purpose basic psychology and human biology. I just wish more people were enlightened to the way of thinking that you talked about. I know so many great guys and girls that really have a lot going for them, that are held back by inner demons.

 

[S O F I]

It's a sacrifice that you guys imply yields positive returns but that's not for certain.

 

[Sebastian]

You have to finally face the dichotomy between who you think you are and who you actually are.

As far as im concerned, there is no difference.

So how many of you guys think that they are past that stage? Right, everyone.

 

[masta247]

I'm also past a stage when I acted like somebody I wasn't. Now I don't get as much attention from other people but I think that I am myself. I don't feel fully good with it. I think I really am sort of a nice guy, not a perfect one like I thought I was, I am aware that I am lazy, I am selfish in many ways, I tend to criticize people for anything, I feel much superior to other people who come through a phase I already came through. Come to think of it I feel superior to most people, I think that most people are really fucked up but I also respect a lot of people so it's not like I feel the best.
These are probably all my weaknesses.
Also, I feel like many things are off balance in my natural self. For example I know that I'm a very sentimental person - many shallow things and activities won't entertain me. Most people I know are usually having fun in ways that won't make me happy and that makes me sort of a loner. And it's not in balance with my nature because I need close friends. Most people are really shallow and it pisses me off that I can't find people who I could really get along well with and have fun with my way. Partying and drinking seriously are not my things.
I'd rather go out to do some sports or hit the mountains on any weekend. My natural self feels lonely so I have to do things that are against me.
Oh I also oftenly live in my fantasies. I expect too much and dream about stuff that won't happen, that makes me sometimes sad too. I often expect people to be greater than they really are.


On the other hand I think that there's a thin barrier between being yourself and not being adopted to our society. If somebody asks you for directions should you say "I think you look like a fag and fuck you" or should you be polite even if you do that only to be nice?
Isn't there something like improving yourself?
Actually sometimes it's hard to answer "what are you". Could it be that something you have done since always, since you can remember is not your natural self?
It was just an example but there are many many situations where a guy who is a dick should try to be a better person even if it's not him. Isn't it like that?

I asked many questions, looks like I'm shit in psychology though I always thought that I understand more than an average person.

 

[Preach]

As far as im concerned, there is no difference.

So how many of you guys think that they are past that stage? Right, everyone.

Let me ask you a series of questions:

- Have you ever thought twice about something you said to someone because you didn't know how they interpreted what you said?
- Have you ever talked smack about someone but acted nice to them because you don't want any hassle? More specifical example, have you ever said something like, "that guy is such a fucking loser. what a douche"? Without even knowing the person?
- How would you react in a situation where you had a gun or knife pointed at you, and is your probable reaction aligned with the person you want to be? Would you fight back? If you say you would fight back, would you really, if it was at the risk of getting stabbed in the stomach and possibly dying?
- If I met you in person and started making fun of your admiration of football and Germany's team, and dissed the way you took their world cup finale loss to heart, how would you react?
- Do you never say things you don't mean to a girl to impress her, or to try and be something you're not because you have this idea that it's what would attract her?
- Do you NEVER enhance a story or accomplishment of yours to make it sound even neater? Be honest Sebastian, if you say no I won't believe you. Every guy does this.
- In a given period of your life, like say after a break-up, do you not read cheesy love quotes and find meaning in them? Do you not feel a great deal of self-pity? I remember this whole thing with a girlfriend of yours, and a lot of the things you said reeked of grief over lost love. You weren't the same Sebastian you were five years ago, or today.

The things you said are difficult to discuss, because a proud person who lies to himself doesn't necessarily know it's what he's doing. Take my example of how I thought I was like the nicest dude evar for a long time until I realized it was a defense mechanism. If you think you're past all this shit, when you're in fact not, you don't know yourself at all. How do you know? The idea is not to get past who you are, create a new set of morals and beliefs for yourself, and then continue to plow through life with your newly adjusted viewpoints. The idea is to be evermore dynamic in how you percieve yourself. To always strive to get to know who you truly are, and to change negative sides to yourself as you go. The awareness of the fact that all the things you think you know about yourself might possibly be lies, is the difference between someone like me, and someone like you. They don't have to be, but being open for the fact or totally rejecting it is the key difference here.

I'll be a little direct with you to make a point. Personally, I got the impression that when Germany lost the world cup finale, that really bothered you. Maybe the fact that you left because of it was a joke, but it's obvious you care a lot about football, and your country's team. To me, that's completely ridiculous. I never could understand things from your point of view. I understand the possible reasons for why you are this way, and if you explained it to me it would make total sense, but the emotions you experience when your team loses or wins i cannot understand. In fact, I could go so far as to say that it's sort of childish to care so much for something that means so little. But that's just my point of view. Now, what I want to ask you is, do you understand why certain people feel this way? If I told this to your face, and basically made fun of your interests, how would you take it? Can you explain to yourself and others why football means so much to you, and would you not be bothered at all when I poked fun at it? I'll go out on a limb and suggest that it would make you feel uncomfortable. Either, you would feel the desire to get back at me, or you would get defensive. If you were a different kind of person, you might even have gotten hurt. But if football means so much to someone, why would anyone react in any of the ways I mentioned above (which, for a fact, a lot of people would)? If you're a person that's okay with who you are and know yourself, why would someone else's distorted opinion about who you are affect you at all?

Or, let's say I'm totally wrong. Apply this principle of thinking to everything you do. All your interests, all the things that tick you off. Is there NOTHING that makes you react irrationally, for a person who's supposedly beyond figuring out who he/she is? Let me rephrase this whole post into a question: Do you NEVER do ANYTHING that you would have trouble explaining to people, because they wouldn't understand it? I think the things you say about love are corny and cliche. What's your response? If a group of people all agreed that your perception of love is corny, and that you're corny for entertaining the thoughts you do, would it not affect you at all? And more importantly, are you aware of the various reactions your various actions would have from different types of people, and are you okay with each and all of them?

I'm sorry for being an ass, most of the things I said, I said for the sake of the point, not because I really mean them. If you tell me that you're 100% true to yourself in everything you say or do though, I don't believe you. Simply put. Also, I'm not expecting that you answer my questions individually, or even at all, I just used them to maybe start a chain of thoughts. To me, it's pretty arrogant, defensive and wrong to assume that you are a complete person. Not because you aren't, because you very well might be, but you're not supposed to assume that you're neither complete nor incomplete. It's like a person that laughs at his own jokes and interrupts people to tell his own story. Quite honestly, it's sort of obnoxious in a way, because you are closing your mind to the fact that you have any flaws you need to work on, and if you do have a hidden aspect to your personality that you could improve for your own sake, you will never know.

 

[Preach]

I'm also past a stage when I acted like somebody I wasn't. Now I don't get as much attention from other people but I think that I am myself. I don't feel fully good with it. I think I really am sort of a nice guy, not a perfect one like I thought I was, I am aware that I am lazy, I am selfish in many ways, I tend to criticize people for anything, I feel much superior to other people who come through a phase I already came through. Come to think of it I feel superior to most people, I think that most people are really fucked up but I also respect a lot of people so it's not like I feel the best.
These are probably all my weaknesses.
Also, I feel like many things are off balance in my natural self. For example I know that I'm a very sentimental person - many shallow things and activities won't entertain me. Most people I know are usually having fun in ways that won't make me happy and that makes me sort of a loner. And it's not in balance with my nature because I need close friends. Most people are really shallow and it pisses me off that I can't find people who I could really get along well with and have fun with my way. Partying and drinking seriously are not my things.
I'd rather go out to do some sports or hit the mountains on any weekend. My natural self feels lonely so I have to do things that are against me.
Oh I also oftenly live in my fantasies. I expect too much and dream about stuff that won't happen, that makes me sometimes sad too. I often expect people to be greater than they really are.


On the other hand I think that there's a thin barrier between being yourself and not being adopted to our society. If somebody asks you for directions should you say "I think you look like a fag and fuck you" or should you be polite even if you do that only to be nice?
Isn't there something like improving yourself?
Actually sometimes it's hard to answer "what are you". Could it be that something you have done since always, since you can remember is not your natural self?
It was just an example but there are many many situations where a guy who is a dick should try to be a better person even if it's not him. Isn't it like that?

I asked many questions, looks like I'm shit in psychology though I always thought that I understand more than an average person.

you and i are probably very much alike. here's a thought, though. on one hand you say that you think you're being yourself, but on the other hand, you explain all these flaws. the way you describe them gives the impression that you are very aware of the inclinations that entail them. you probably realize that a lot of people wouldn't think too highly of that opinion. do you feel okay with feeling the way you do? feeling superior to other people is a feeling you describe, but i'm almost certain that you're a humble person, in person. you probably don't act as if you are superior to other people even though you feel that way some times. you say you are past the stage where you act like something you're not, so i have to ask you. which is it? do you really act superior to other people? or don't you? if you don't, why not? it's how you feel right? or is it? you're also a philosophical person, and i'm sure if someone explains something to you the right way, you can see why a person x did an action y that you disagreed with, and fully understand it. would you feel superior to someone who were in an emotional phase you are already past, but who have excelled in other areas like their career or love-life in ways you haven't yet done? basically, something here smells distorted.

If somebody asks you for directions should you say "I think you look like a fag and fuck you" or should you be polite even if you do that only to be nice?

Situational, and based on opinion. What do you yourself expect from others when you ask them for direction? If you're fine with being treated poorly when you're trying to find help, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to tell them to fuck off. I wouldn't want to be friends with you, and a lot of other people wouldn't, but if it's how you truly feel and you can explain it to yourself and anyone that asks, and you don't feel guilty or anything else negative over it, at least you're happy with yourself, right?

Could it be that something you have done since always, since you can remember is not your natural self?

arguably, yes.

It was just an example but there are many many situations where a guy who is a dick should try to be a better person even if it's not him. Isn't it like that?

imo, as long as you are comfortable with your actions and all the potential reactions they might have, you do you. in context of what we were discussing, this is not about being the most likable and noble person, but learning who you truly are and leading your life accordingly as a means to achieve true peace of mind. but honestly, even the hardest of gang-bangers and the most grotesque of rebel soldiers possess the ability to feel sympathy. we're biologically programmed to have empathy for our fellows that we care about, and in modern times, our awareness and knowledge of human social behaviour makes it impossible to be an asshole and get away with it. so like i said, in the context of finding yourself, it's not about being a nice person but about being who you really are.

 

[Sebastian]

Let me ask you a series of questions:

- Have you ever thought twice about something you said to someone because you didn't know how they interpreted what you said?

Yes.

- Have you ever talked smack about someone but acted nice to them because you don't want any hassle? More specifical example, have you ever said something like, "that guy is such a fucking loser. what a douche"? Without even knowing the person?

Yes.

- How would you react in a situation where you had a gun or knife pointed at you, and is your probable reaction aligned with the person you want to be? Would you fight back? If you say you would fight back, would you really, if it was at the risk of getting stabbed in the stomach and possibly dying?

Nah, i wouldnt fight back.

- If I met you in person and started making fun of your admiration of football and Germany's team, and dissed the way you took their world cup finale loss to heart, how would you react?

I would have no problem with it at all. If you crack a good joke, i would laugh with you.

Sidenote: It seems like my "reaction" to the ec-final is blown way out of proportion. Its not like it was the reason for me not posting here anymore for a while. I said it in the post, yes, and so there is no way for you guys to think of it differently but just to make it clear, it was of course not the reason! Actually, there was no real reason.lol

- Do you never say things you don't mean to a girl to impress her, or to try and be something you're not because you have this idea that it's what would attract her?

If you ask me, if i ever did this kind of thing: Yes, of course. Nowadays not anymore, at all.

- Do you NEVER enhance a story or accomplishment of yours to make it sound even neater? Be honest Sebastian, if you say no I won't believe you. Every guy does this.

Ok, then im no guy i guess. :cheesy: Seriously, i never do it. Its something i really pay attention to because i hate it when other people do it. I cant think of any recent incident where i did something like that.

- In a given period of your life, like say after a break-up, do you not read cheesy love quotes and find meaning in them? Do you not feel a great deal of self-pity? I remember this whole thing with a girlfriend of yours, and a lot of the things you said reeked of grief over lost love. You weren't the same Sebastian you were five years ago, or today.

Are you kidding me? I read hundreds of them, ive watched numerous romances, listened to love songs for a couple of days straight. - Self-pity might not be the right word, although there were probably some occassions where i felt something like that, but rarely.

And of course im not the same guy i was 5 years ago, but im probably close to being the guy i was back when the break-up happened. Obviously ive learned some things and might have changed a little bit in my character due to what happened but i would not claim that it changed me dramatically.

I'll be a little direct with you to make a point. Personally, I got the impression that when Germany lost the world cup finale, that really bothered you. Maybe the fact that you left because of it was a joke, but it's obvious you care a lot about football, and your country's team. To me, that's completely ridiculous. I never could understand things from your point of view. I understand the possible reasons for why you are this way, and if you explained it to me it would make total sense, but the emotions you experience when your team loses or wins i cannot understand. In fact, I could go so far as to say that it's sort of childish to care so much for something that means so little. But that's just my point of view. Now, what I want to ask you is, do you understand why certain people feel this way? If I told this to your face, and basically made fun of your interests, how would you take it? Can you explain to yourself and others why football means so much to you, and would you not be bothered at all when I poked fun at it? I'll go out on a limb and suggest that it would make you feel uncomfortable. Either, you would feel the desire to get back at me, or you would get defensive. If you were a different kind of person, you might even have gotten hurt. But if football means so much to someone, why would anyone react in any of the ways I mentioned above (which, for a fact, a lot of people would)? If you're a person that's okay with who you are and know yourself, why would someone else's distorted opinion about who you are affect you at all?

Ok, ive adressed this point above but i will do it again:

You have a totally wrong impression of how highly i rate football or the national team for this matter! I dont blame you though, the way i wrote the post back in june could give someone else the impression of me being the type of guy you think i am, concerning this point. Im not!

Just like any other normal football fan i felt shit right after the match. Not more, not less. Two days after the match or something the feeling had vanished. Well, i still wouldnt watch reports or anything about it on tv but its not like i was crying myself to sleep of it at night.lol

So, since its not as bad as you thought it is, some of your further questions might be useless now. But lets say you would make fun of it right now, i would have no problem at all with it. Im absolutely aware of it being meaningless when it comes to my life.

Or, let's say I'm totally wrong. Apply this principle of thinking to everything you do. All your interests, all the things that tick you off. Is there NOTHING that makes you react irrationally, for a person who's supposedly beyond figuring out who he/she is? Let me rephrase this whole post into a question: Do you NEVER do ANYTHING that you would have trouble explaining to people, because they wouldn't understand it?

Honestly: No, there is nothing i can think of! I never ever tick off (well, rarely on the pitch when the dumbass referee makes a horrible decision. But its not like im gonna kick his ass or something. Im just really pissed if it happens (not always)...but thats about it.

I think the things you say about love are corny and cliche. What's your response? If a group of people all agreed that your perception of love is corny, and that you're corny for entertaining the thoughts you do, would it not affect you at all? And more importantly, are you aware of the various reactions your various actions would have from different types of people, and are you okay with each and all of them?

I would ask you for an explanation why you think its corny and then i would my answer would derive from what you say.

Again, i would ask for there reasons for thinking this way. And lets pretend i would be the only guy on this planet thinking the way i do: Yes, it would of course affect me that im the only one.

Im aware that not everyone shares my opinion about love and relationship, sure. Some opinion might me stupid in my book, some are totally okay even if they differ from my personal point of view.

I'm sorry for being an ass, most of the things I said, I said for the sake of the point, not because I really mean them. If you tell me that you're 100% true to yourself in everything you say or do though, I don't believe you. Simply put. Also, I'm not expecting that you answer my questions individually, or even at all, I just used them to maybe start a chain of thoughts.

In regard to the very first sentence of the quoted part: You dont have to apologise "for being an ass" because throughout the whole membership of the forum ive come up with a certain picture of your character and i know for sure that you would never say things like that to "hurt me" (given the possibility that something someone said on here could hurt me).

To me, it's pretty arrogant, defensive and wrong to assume that you are a complete person. Not because you aren't, because you very well might be, but you're not supposed to assume that you're neither complete nor incomplete. It's like a person that laughs at his own jokes and interrupts people to tell his own story. Quite honestly, it's sort of obnoxious in a way, because you are closing your mind to the fact that you have any flaws you need to work on, and if you do have a hidden aspect to your personality that you could improve for your own sake, you will never know.

All i said in my very first post is, that there is no difference between the person i actually am, and the person i think i am. I do think that i have some "flaws" in my character. I would never deny that and you are right, it would be totally stupid to do so.

 

[S O F I]

^The fact you said "YES" to any of those question goes to prove, according to Preach, that this statement is false: "As far as im concerned, there is no difference."

That's what Preach was getting at with his questions.

and what Preach and Jokerman are saying goes further than just "Are you acting like yourself or not?". For example, the notion that if you dress "wigger-like" and act "wigger-like" means you don't know yourself. Well, that's not the case. Being "wigger-like" could actually go to show that you ARE being YOU, because you yearn hard to identify with a certain group and be recognized for it. See what I mean? Things like that.

 

[Preach]

Yeah. Good response Sebastian. Sofi is right though. What my exact questions were is really not relevant, and as you understand of course, you really have no obligation to answer them. My point was, if you apply the same type of logic to all your actions, maybe you reveal things to yourself that you thought were non-existant and never even thought of. And I'm really defensive here because I'm not talking as from me the person, but from an ideal point of view. I listed some of the flaws I have come to find in me that I never knew existed before i started soul searching.

 

[masta247]

you and i are probably very much alike. here's a thought, though. on one hand you say that you think you're being yourself, but on the other hand, you explain all these flaws. the way you describe them gives the impression that you are very aware of the inclinations that entail them. you probably realize that a lot of people wouldn't think too highly of that opinion. do you feel okay with feeling the way you do?

I am aware of most of my flaws and I try to change most of them - at least to an extent where they won't bother me that much. See - I like my laziness quite often. I feel good with it. Rarely it causes some problems but it doesn't happen often. Usually it gives me more joy I think.
Same with other stuff - I just have to control and limit them but not totally wipe out off my life.

feeling superior to other people is a feeling you describe, but i'm almost certain that you're a humble person, in person. you probably don't act as if you are superior to other people even though you feel that way some times. you say you are past the stage where you act like something you're not, so i have to ask you. which is it? do you really act superior to other people? or don't you? if you don't, why not? it's how you feel right? or is it? you're also a philosophical person, and i'm sure if someone explains something to you the right way, you can see why a person x did an action y that you disagreed with, and fully understand it. would you feel superior to someone who were in an emotional phase you are already past, but who have excelled in other areas like their career or love-life in ways you haven't yet done? basically, something here smells distorted.

I passed a stage of being a kid, I passed a stage of living by different values. I also used to be a 'bad boy' no rules kid for some time. Now I think it's utterly stupid. Thank God that I passed that so I will never have to deal with that again. So the point is that after that happened I feel way superior to people who act this way right now. I also feel superior to people in which I find certain aspects of character I really, really dislike. When I meet someone whose value system is all fucked (totally different than mine) I feel way superior to him and just don't want to have anything in common with him. If it's a friend of my friend it kind of staggers my inner peace. I'm just pretty confident about my value system, I think that it's the right one and all that.

I don't feel superior to people who are in an emotional phase I used to be before - if it was a painful part the feeling I have towards them is probably compassion.

What do you yourself expect from others when you ask them for direction? If you're fine with being treated poorly when you're trying to find help, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to tell them to fuck off. I wouldn't want to be friends with you, and a lot of other people wouldn't, but if it's how you truly feel and you can explain it to yourself and anyone that asks, and you don't feel guilty or anything else negative over it, at least you're happy with yourself, right?
arguably, yes.

It was not about me but more of an example for a random person who is not a genuinely good person. So being true to yourself does also mean thinking about the consequences?
If so it's not truelly being 'real' because you do something to fit to our society. You do something because you don't want to be hated.
If you're an intelligent bad guy you do things that aren't in your nature to make some people like you.

 

[Preach]

I am aware of most of my flaws and I try to change most of them - at least to an extent where they won't bother me that much. See - I like my laziness quite often. I feel good with it. Rarely it causes some problems but it doesn't happen often. Usually it gives me more joy I think.
Same with other stuff - I just have to control and limit them but not totally wipe out off my life.

What do you mean by "I like my laziness quite often"? How do you feel about it when you're not liking it? We all like to be lazy. Nothing like taking a day off to play video games and eat potato chips. But spend several days off, and suddenly you become useless. When I've spent a couple of weeks sleeping during the day, staying up late at night, watching shows and playing games, I notice how I take on that uselessness. Friends gather to watch a movie and I don't even bother to go. I don't wash my clothes or do the dishes, I just sit on my ass. The longer I keep doing this, the harder everything I normally do when I'm in the zone becomes. Liking something is a very ambigous concept though. I like to not work. But not working doesn't fulfill my dreams and ambition. Without those I don't feel good about myself. This lack of inner peace escalates and by the day I grow more and more fond of staying lazy. Or if you flip it around, my desire to do normal things for people my age keeps shrinking. Having friends, a good life, a healthy body, working, using your body, and being social are things that heighten the general quality of life at the expense of having to get up in the morning, do boring work, or make pointless small talk. I don't want to work, but I want to be happy and have a quality life. So instead of doing what I want in order to not want to do other things, I do things I don't really want to do in order to be able to have the feeling of wanting to do something. The difference, to me anyway, is that when I'm in lazy mode I don't think so much about things I want to do as I think about things I don't want to do. When I'm in the good-zone mode though, I actually want to do stuff every once in a while. Wanting to do something, and then doing it, yields a positive reward in itself. What I'm getting at is that you should separate a situational and momentary need, to a larger-scheme belief of yours. Your body physically wants to sit still and be lazy, but deep down you know that your life has a lot more essence when you go out there and do stuff that you enjoy. If being lazy doesn't cause any doubt or feelings of guilt with you, maybe it actually does make you happy. But you are biologically programmed to be a social animal. If being lazy actually does it for you and gives your life worth, I'm going out on a limb to suggest that you have some sort of larger issue in life that you either don't want to share, or that you're not aware of. I'm not making any inclinations, again I'm just talking from an ideal point of view.

I passed a stage of being a kid, I passed a stage of living by different values. I also used to be a 'bad boy' no rules kid for some time. Now I think it's utterly stupid. Thank God that I passed that so I will never have to deal with that again. So the point is that after that happened I feel way superior to people who act this way right now. I also feel superior to people in which I find certain aspects of character I really, really dislike. When I meet someone whose value system is all fucked (totally different than mine) I feel way superior to him and just don't want to have anything in common with him. If it's a friend of my friend it kind of staggers my inner peace. I'm just pretty confident about my value system, I think that it's the right one and all that.

Hehe ya i had that period myself Well, I guess I don't have to tell you that it's a sort of cocky attitude you have there mister. I think you are 100% wrong in your way of thinking, but.. This is another thing that's hard to talk about. Take into account what Jokerman said, and look at your values. Do you want to be a judgmental person? It's obvious that you didn't really try to do anything with the way you see things. I used to think like that back in my cocky years, but it wore off. There are many things that could be said here, but you said that if it were a friend of yours you would be staggered. Isn't that a bit disrespectful? Do you value loyalty? Because staying loyal to a friend whatever they are going through is a value that if you do it, you'll feel good about yourself just for doing something selfless and good. Respect is something I personally value. Not in the sense that "I DEMAND RESPECT!!!". Do you think there are people out there that would dislike you for being quirky, weird, judgmental, whatever? Is there anything about your own personality that you know certain people don't like? I'll use myself as an example. A lot of people think I'm being pseudo-intellectual with my babble. I know this, and it doesn't affect me. I know I'm not trying to be, and that I'm just trying to enrichen myself as a human being. If that means I deserve to be disrespected, I feel something is very wrong. I play World of Warcraft. Uh, hello geek? Your typical jock would probably think I'm a loser. This is fine. It doesn't bother me. I know that nothing he can say to me can lower the value of my life, and I feel very much inclined to play such people's little games. I would likely start mocking his jock ass self and do a cash register joke on him. But I will always respect his right to have his opinion. He isn't worth less than me in my eyes, he just doesn't see things the way I do. If you look into human sociology and learn about all the factors that contribute to a person's personality, you would understand that there's a reason he's a jock. Maybe his dad was an elitist asshole who kept pushing for his son's sports career. Or maybe the other jocks were the only guys he could relate to, and their little merry band of jocks keep on sub-consciously peer pressuring each other into becoming bigger and bigger assholes. There's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why they are this way, and there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why you are the way you are. Imo, you should appreciate this fact. You have not excelled at anything in life that they didn't and vica versa. You're not a better human being, you're just different. From how you chose to put your thoughts down I get the impression you don't consider this trait of yours as good though, but learning to respect other people for who they are is important.

It was not about me but more of an example for a random person who is not a genuinely good person. So being true to yourself does also mean thinking about the consequences?
If so it's not truelly being 'real' because you do something to fit to our society. You do something because you don't want to be hated.
If you're an intelligent bad guy you do things that aren't in your nature to make some people like you.

This is purely hypothetical thinking though. Being true to yourself can also mean a lot of different things. It can mean to never lie to yourself, or it can be interpreted as always doing what is totally you no matter what circumstances you are in. Again, what we're discussing here is learning to accept yourself and open your mind to the beauty of living, and to get your mind and body straight so as to be in an optimal shape of mind and health. I would throw a white lie at a friend who invited me over if I had a long school day and needed to unwind. I would easily blatantly lie if it meant getting out of trouble that I didn't get myself into. I would easily suck up to a teacher to try and get a better grade. I would "play the game" in any situation that called for it. But I don't want to lie to myself because I've been doing that for so long I'm sick of it. It was a defense mechanism that effectively worked as a lid on my bottle of emotions, but guess what, the bottle got full and the lid could no longer hold. It's not something I did because I'm trying to be rightous, it's something I'm doing because it's about the only thing left I haven't already tried. And so far it has worked wonders for me.

As to what you said about fitting in for the sake of being liked. Again, there's differentiations. I could be an attention whore because mommy and daddy never loved me enough, and continually do crazy things to get attention without wanting to change my ways, because doing so means I have to deal with the empty void in my soul because my parents never loved me. Or, I could try to get attention because no woman has looked at me in a couple of months and I need a little ego boost, so I do it consciously. I can try to be liked because I don't like to have arguments and serious discussions where I have to speak my inner most thoughts (because I lack confidence in myself and my own beliefs), OR, I can try to be nice to everyone because I simply want to be a nice guy. In both those examples, respectively, the former would be an example of someone who aren't being honest with themselves, the latter would be an example of smoeone who consciously do thought-out things on purpose, as a means to an end, never trying to hide it for one's self, and being ready to explain one's actions if anyone would catch you and ask you about it.

 

[S O F I]

But I will always respect his right to have his opinion. He isn't worth less than me in my eyes, he just doesn't see things the way I do. If you look into human sociology and learn about all the factors that contribute to a person's personality, you would understand that there's a reason he's a jock. Maybe his dad was an elitist asshole who kept pushing for his son's sports career. Or maybe the other jocks were the only guys he could relate to, and their little merry band of jocks keep on sub-consciously peer pressuring each other into becoming bigger and bigger assholes. There's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why they are this way, and there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why you are the way you are. Imo, you should appreciate this fact. You have not excelled at anything in life that they didn't and vica versa. You're not a better human being, you're just different.

I think you're lying to yourself with this. You want to respect others' opinions, and you want to appreciate that, and you want to think you're not better than others, but in practice you don't. How do I know?

Your treatment of bacho.

 

[Preach]

I think you're lying to yourself with this. You want to respect others' opinions, and you want to appreciate that, and you want to think you're not better than others, but in practice you don't. How do I know?

Your treatment of bacho.

You're sorta right. My problem with bacho is not that we disagree, it's that he is a moron. I mean. You're smart. You know what I mean. Everyone have limits. Not sure which of my essays I talked about it in, but imo being honest with yourself doesn't really mean you have to respect everything. Bacho has no sympathy, and he has no respect. If we put what I said back into context, I was responding to masta's admittance to feeling superior to people he disagrees with. There's disagreement and there's hate. I disagree with people who are religious, but I respect their opinion and don't necessarily feel a need to challenge their belief system unless they challenge mine. I dislike conservative people. But I hates me a bacho. I happen to think people like bacho are a root to a lot of problems that people have. The kind of guy that goes up to a fat chick and tells her to "lose that fucking weight, goddamn". When I read shit like that on tuckermax I laugh, but, and I do feel sympathy. But imo, it's a case of not putting my point across accurately rather than lying to myself. I diss bacho, but I never treat people poorly or try to piss on them. In the end, I don't feel like what I'm doing towards bacho is a result of some undiscovered problem I have. Maybe it's two-faced, maybe i'm wrong, or maybe dealing with this is a part of my journey still ahead.

It should also be noted that I tried to debate with bacho as respectfully as I could for a long time. I know because I can remember at least two or three occasions where people told me "why do you even bother?" In general, how I treated bacho does not reflect upon how I've treated anyone I have encountered in the past five years, in any way or sense.

 

[Jokerman]

Bacho's ways are not our ways, but his ways are always best.

 

[Jokerman]

I also feel superior to people in which I find certain aspects of character I really, really dislike. When I meet someone whose value system is all fucked (totally different than mine) I feel way superior to him and just don't want to have anything in common with him.

What if you had no boundaries? What if you accepted everybody as being equal? You would be a more powerful individual because you would be beholden to no special interest beyond that of your own personal integrity.

 

[Sebastian]

^The fact you said "YES" to any of those question goes to prove, according to Preach, that this statement is false: "As far as im concerned, there is no difference."

That's what Preach was getting at with his questions.

and what Preach and Jokerman are saying goes further than just "Are you acting like yourself or not?". For example, the notion that if you dress "wigger-like" and act "wigger-like" means you don't know yourself. Well, that's not the case. Being "wigger-like" could actually go to show that you ARE being YOU, because you yearn hard to identify with a certain group and be recognized for it. See what I mean? Things like that.

Maybe its because im sick but no, i dont understand what you both are saying.

Im so sick, i even accidently thanked you for your post.