His ways are not our ways, but His ways are always best.

[Shadows]

Once there were three trees on a hill in the woods. They were discussing their hopes and dreams when the first tree said, "Someday I hope to be a treasure chest. I could be filled with gold, silver and precious gems. I could be decorated with intricate carving and everyone would see the beauty."

Then the second tree said, "Someday I will be a mighty ship. I will take kings and queens across the waters and sail to the corners of the world. Everyone will feel safe in me because of the strength of my hull."

Finally the third tree said, "I want to grow to be the tallest and straightest tree in the forest. People will see me on top of the hill and look up to my branches, and think of the heavens and God and how close to them I am reaching. I will be the greatest tree of all time and people will always remember me."

After a few years of praying that their dreams would come true, a group of woodsmen came upon the trees. When one came to the first tree he said, "This looks like a strong tree, I think I should be able to sell the wood to a carpenter" ... and he began cutting it down. The tree was happy, because he knew that the carpenter would make him into a treasure chest.

At the second tree a woodsman said, "This looks like a strong tree, I should be able to sell it to the shipyard." The second tree was happy because he knew he was on his way to becoming a mighty ship.

When the woodsmen came upon the third tree, the tree was frightened because he knew that if they cut him down his dreams would not come true. One of the woodsmen said, "I don't need anything special from my tree so I'll take this one", and he cut it down.

When the first tree arrived at the carpenters, he was made into a feed box for animals. He was then placed in a barn and filled with hay. This was not at all what he had prayed for.

The second tree was cut and made into a small fishing boat. His dreams of being a mighty ship and carrying kings had come to an end.

The third tree was cut into large pieces and left alone in the dark. The years went by, and the trees forgot about their dreams. Then one day, a man and woman came to the barn. She gave birth and they placed the baby in the hay in the feed box that was made from the first tree. The man wished that he could have made a crib for the baby, but this manger would have to do. The tree could feel the importance of this event and knew that it had held the greatest treasure of all time.

Years later, a group of men got in the fishing boat made from the second tree. One of them was tired and went to sleep. While they were out on the water, a great storm arose and the tree didn't think it was strong enough to keep the men safe. The men woke the sleeping man, and he stood and said "Peace" and the storm stopped. At this time, the tree knew that it had carried the King of Kings in its boat.

Finally, someone came and got the third tree. It was carried through the streets as the people mocked the man who was carrying it. When they came to a stop, the man was nailed to the tree and raised in the air to die at the top of a hill. When Sunday came, the tree came to realize that it was strong enough to stand at the top of the hill and be as close to God as was possible, because Jesus had been crucified on it.


The moral of this story is that when things don't seem to be going your way, always know that God has a plan for you. If you place your trust in Him, He will give you great gifts. Each of the trees got what they wanted, just not in the way they had imagined. We don't always know what God's plans are for us. We just know that His ways are not our ways, but His ways are always best.


Do you believe in the last line, assuming you believe in god?

 

[vg4030]

I dont believe that as it stands. Just saying that God has a plan that we have no control over is a cop out in my opinion.

We have all the control we need over our lives. In the story the people who are God are basically the woodcutters who decided the fate of the tree at that particular time, then fate (the real God) changed their paths furthur along. The trees basically stood there and could do nothing.

In real life, humans can decide where they want to go. If it doesnt work out, you simply learn from it and use that knowledge in your next endeavour. You adapt. You are not controlled by some invisible force that has an end plan in mind. Its all controlled by yourself and your abilities

 

[Glockmatic]

God has a plan for the kids who starve to death around the world. God has a plan for mothers and babies who both die during child birth. God has a plan for all the needless death and suffering in the world in which he does nothing about it.

 

[masta247]

A nice story, for you non-believers - you can also think of this as fate or anything that might not exactly be God. It's so often true. Sometimes when you think that something is going to be nice and then the situation seems to be fucked because of something it often turns out that in the end it's even better than you though at the beginning. That's all.

 

[Glockmatic]

Fate is also another bullshit thing.

 

[Da_Funk]

lol god lol.

 

[Euphanasia]

it's a nice story, but if you're asking if i believe in the moral, the answer is no. There is nothing out there with some great plan for us. People invent this notion because it makes them feel better. It makes them happier and more hopeful to think that despite how bad things may be going, it's all part of some vast, intricate plan with a happy ending.

The harsh, disturbing reality is harder to swallow. Things do not happen for a reason. They are haphazard and random. In life you have choices and you make certain decisions. You try to do the best that you can with the information you have. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. The only peace to be found is the fact that there was nothing you could ever do about it.

 

[Shadows]

wow. some totally opposite views here.

I pretty much agree with Glockmatic.( God has a plan for children and mothers that die etc)...but i think we all kind of do our own thing and control our own fate even if we are thrown a curve.

i guess im kind of torn between TRULY believing and disbelief. because what if throwing us a curve was a way to go through his plan?

 

[S O F I]

wow. some totally opposite views here.

I pretty much agree with Glockmatic.( God has a plan for children and mothers that die etc)

He was being sarcastic though. He doesn't ACTUALLY think God has a plan for children and mothers to die. It's his way of saying God doesn't exist.


Shadows, have you read Elie Wiesel's Night?

He mentions how a lot of orthodox jews were losing their faith when at Auschwitz because they couldn't imagine how God could let such horror to happen.

i guess im kind of torn between TRULY believing and disbelief. because what if throwing us a curve was a way to go through his plan?

The key with faith and religion is to not get caught up in logic and truth. When choosing to believe, it doesn't matter whether God exists or not. It's what your faith, and the beliefs you carry, do for you as a person.

So, the moral of the story is that when things don't seem to be going well for you, don't worry because God has a plan for you. Another way of looking at that is on one end of the spectrum, you have pessimism (euphanasia's view more or less) and on the other, optimism. You as a person can choose to believe that things will turn out OK or you can believe that they won't. You don't have to bring God into it to have that belief. Or you can, if you wish, the ends are the same.

 

[Glockmatic]

Yes I was being sarcastic. People say "God has a plan" are just lying to themselves to try to answer all the shit that happens in the world.

What plan is it to have kids starve to death? Or people die of horrible diseases? Or people being chopped to death with machetes? If anything, god is a horrible planner. In the Abrahamic religions he sent down three messiahs (quran says theres hundreds) to bring his word to the people. WHY NOT JUST SEND ONE? TO A LITERATE CULTURE?! The first time a christian missionary went to China, a Chinese scholar said "Why did it take so long for his word to come to us?" At least come down and sort out the shit in the middle east if he exists

 

[masta247]

You as a person can choose to believe that things will turn out OK or you can believe that they won't. You don't have to bring God into it to have that belief. Or you can, if you wish, the ends are the same.

That's pretty much what I said.
You can call it whatever you want - God, fate,optimism, whatever - it's still the same thing in the end.

 

[Sebastian]

You as a person can choose to believe that things will turn out OK or you can believe that they won't. You don't have to bring God into it to have that belief. Or you can, if you wish, the ends are the same.

So its, nicely said, useless to bring God into it?!

 

[S O F I]

So its, nicely said, useless to bring God into it?!

No, that's the wrong conclusion to make. We as a people don't acquire beliefs and values through the same channels.

A person growing up in the West in a stable environment is more likely to be optimistic because the person sees opportunity and is groomed with the ideas that "you can be whatever you want to be" and such. Basically, the ideas of individualism and liberty are instilled in us from a young age.

A person growing up impoverished in Africa doesn't acquire optimism from his/her surrounding because all they see is failure. That's where God comes in and tells them that it will get better.

It's no coincidence that the impoverished and the have-nots are more religious in this world.

Basically, some people need God for reasons others don't and vice versa.

 

[Jokerman]

To finish the story:

And the fourth tree, which stayed out of the discussions of the hopes and dreams of the other trees, kept to himself and showed but a modest display of foliage. So when the woodsmen came for the others, they hardly noticed the fourth. And it lived on for almost a thousand years, and lived a rich and happy life. Every Spring, it's leaves would bloom and it would listen to the birds singing their songs in their homes on its sunlit branches. During all those years it dropped seeds and many new trees grew from them, and in this way, its life goes on as it continues giving to the earth.

The moral of the story is that having and manifesting a beautiful life starts with appreciating how much beauty already exists in your life. Pay attention to what you have and what’s around you. Be present for your own life or one day you’ll wake up from your hopes and dreams with no life left. Because each moment is all we have.

 

[Da_Funk]

lol believing in god lol

 

[Shadows]

^lol @ da funk....2nd time...

thanks Jokerman and SOFI that helped.

and to answer your question, i have not read the book.

 

[Sebastian]

No, that's the wrong conclusion to make. We as a people don't acquire beliefs and values through the same channels.

A person growing up in the West in a stable environment is more likely to be optimistic because the person sees opportunity and is groomed with the ideas that "you can be whatever you want to be" and such. Basically, the ideas of individualism and liberty are instilled in us from a young age.

A person growing up impoverished in Africa doesn't acquire optimism from his/her surrounding because all they see is failure. That's where God comes in and tells them that it will get better.

It's no coincidence that the impoverished and the have-nots are more religious in this world.

Basically, some people need God for reasons others don't and vice versa.

I have no idea why i used the term "useless" because thats definitely not what i wanted to write.lol

Ok, then lets come to the conclusion that God is just a tool!

 

[masta247]

I have a question for Jokerman.

Based on what you said numerous times about happiness and the ability to enjoy your life I perceive you as a person who can truly enjoy the moment. Is that so? Did you learn to enjoy and love your life?
Because that's the kind of knowledge that is indeed very true but also in this case theory is pretty far from practice - it's not something easy to transmit into the real life.

 

[Jokerman]

I have a question for Jokerman.

Based on what you said numerous times about happiness and the ability to enjoy your life I perceive you as a person who can truly enjoy the moment. Is that so? Did you learn to enjoy and love your life?
Because that's the kind of knowledge that is indeed very true but also in this case theory is pretty far from practice - it's not something easy to transmit into the real life.

Ok, off topic but since the topic of this thread seems to have been talked out, I'll answer this at length.

Yes, I love my life. And that's where it all begins, with self-love. But I had to learn to live in the moment and enjoy life. For a long time I was sad and depressed, more so than the average person. I was dwelling on the past and on how I had grown up and my family, as many people do, and that was depressing. Also, being of a philosophical turn of mind, I felt what’s the use of doing anything if we’re going to die, and so acted accordingly.

One day I heard some health program on the radio, about diet and disease, and it made a lot of sense. I listened some more and then read a few books on it. Well, even though I was a dark and brooding “artist,” I didn’t ever want to get sick or die, unless I chose to. So it was clear that I had to change my diet and get into aerobic exercise. I always thought I was pretty healthy, my weight was ideal, but making these changes made me feel better physically and gave me more energy. This naturally lifted my mood and spirit. Learning more about health, I read about stress management, meditation, and then on the psychology of healthy thinking. I always found psychological subjects fascinating and I studied this extensively. I read all the important self-help and motivational books, and I also read widely in the professional literature. From that, I took what I agreed with, developed it further, and came up with my own understanding. Living it is always going to be a work in progress. But I’ve made great strides in this journey of transformation.

Conventional psychological thinking is that we need to understand what caused our problems and this will help us work through them. So you have a whole profession devoted to talk therapy. But is that the answer? No. It’s only a half answer. So your father did that, and you didn’t have this, and you were abused there, you were denied here, racist this… Great, you understand why you feel and act the way you do and have thought about it a million times. But understanding the problem does not change it. Do we need to understand it? Yes. But we can only change the problem when we understand that the answer is in the moment we’re in, not in the past. The answer is to be present for our own life, and most of us aren’t. We’re living and acting on the past. We’re constantly looking over our shoulder to see whether or not we are doing everything right. That distraction is an easy way to remain oblivious to your life.

Everything you keep referring to from your past could be misaligned. Some of your beliefs and values could be wrong. If so, then everything you are going to do in this moment will be from a mistaken viewpoint; you will feel a sense of why me? when anything goes wrong. So we do a lot of running and a lot of hiding, just so we can feel better about ourselves. Then we start dreaming. If only I had a better job, a different place to live, a kinder person to be with, then I would feel better about myself. It doesn’t work--I’ve never seen anyone who improved because they got what they thought they needed. If you feel incomplete now, you’re going to feel incomplete no matter whom you’re with or what circumstances you’re in as long as you keep chasing externals instead of doing the internal work that’s necessary for real change.

Did it ever occur to you that responsibility for yourself starts with just you? We need to make it a solo process. I encourage you to take the time to experience the pain that leads to accepting who you are, with your weaknesses and strengths completely revealed, and then focus on detaching and transcending through understanding and surrender. So when you go out in the world, you go as a whole person with a fresh mind, and not out of need.

Look at your life and ask yourself what is it that you are not paying attention to. What ideas have you abrogated responsibility for, allowing some pseudo-authority figure or institution that doesn’t have your interests at heart to make your decisions? Does McDonalds, and other fast-food places, make your eating decisions for you? If you go there, then they do because you have not taken responsibility in that area. If you take charge consciously of making choices that serve you and your growth, your life will achieve a balance, and in that balance will come a harmony and a healthy life force that will not be creating crisis, for you will live every day in direct connection with your vital, true self.

 

[S O F I]

I encourage you to take the time to experience the pain that leads to accepting who you are, with your weaknesses and strengths completely revealed, and then focus on detaching and transcending through understanding and surrender.

Elaborate, please.