Help Me With The Tookie Case...

[Eric]

I was reading over the file of Stan Tookie Williams, and I was reading up on the incidents of the 7-11 clerk and the Asian family. It says in the 7-11 case, Tookie shot the security monitor. How come I cannot find any mention of a tape or anything? Like, you would think that would be a great piece of evidence but I've heard nothing of the nature. I think this is a vital piece of information. They've based this killing on testimony from the two men Tookie was with at the time of the shooting...fellow Crips. The ONLY other evidence I find they used to prove Tookie is guilty is the bullets belong to his gun. WTF? This is pathetic. There is nothing I can find that directly links Tookie to these crimes. Coincidence places him at the crimes, but that's all.

 

[PuffnScruff]

I was reading over the file of Stan Tookie Williams, and I was reading up on the incidents of the 7-11 clerk and the Asian family. It says in the 7-11 case, Tookie shot the security monitor. How come I cannot find any mention of a tape or anything? Like, you would think that would be a great piece of evidence but I've heard nothing of the nature. I think this is a vital piece of information. They've based this killing on testimony from the two men Tookie was with at the time of the shooting...fellow Crips. The ONLY other evidence I find they used to prove Tookie is guilty is the bullets belong to his gun. WTF? This is pathetic. There is nothing I can find that directly links Tookie to these crimes. Coincidence places him at the crimes, but that's all.

how is it coincidence when it was his idea to go "make some money" that evening?

what really put him away were witnesses. it didnt help that he wrote a note saying that one of the witnesses who he associated with and bragged about the murders/ robbery too, was going to die very soon.

there are a lot of talks that he was put away by jail house snitches. thats not true. ordinary citizens like you and me saw the cars in question that were used by tookie and the other men involved at the 7-11.

one of the men involved, who was given immunity, gave a lengthy detailed discription of what happend that night. im sure this man was no stephen king or dan brown.

http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie12.htm
On March 15, 1979, Sergeant Hetzel and Deputy Fueglin of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department interviewed Stanley Williams in an interview room at Firestone Station.

After completing the interview, Williams, Deputy Fueglin and Deputy Jones had the following conversation:

WILLIAMS: How many shots were fired at the motel? Five?

FUEGLIN: What did you say?

WILLIAMS: How many shots were fired at the motel? Five?

FUEGLIN: How many shots do you think were fired at the motel?

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

JONES: You just told us 'five' twice.

WILLIAMS: I didn't say no numbers, man, you are crazy.

that also doesnt help his case much.

 

[Eric]

I'm saying, there is no definite evidence that says HE, TOOKIE, is the shooter. I do understand that in the court of law, beyond reasonable doubt is enough to put a man away. However, if there's any doubt whatsoever, you should not be put to death.

 

[PuffnScruff]

I'm saying, there is no definite evidence that says HE, TOOKIE, is the shooter. I do understand that in the court of law, beyond reasonable doubt is enough to put a man away. However, if there's any doubt whatsoever, you should not be put to death.

there is no smoking gun i guess you could say. but the defense couldnt and has never been able to prove that he is not the shooter too.

 

[Freedom Froggy]

im not saying hes NOT guilty

but in 79-81 it was awhole lot easier to put a murder on some one and that person end up in prison for it

 

[PuffnScruff]

im not saying hes NOT guilty

but in 79-81 it was awhole lot easier to put a murder on some one and that person end up in prison for it

i can't disagree with you there. there have been people that have been executed that were innocent. some even found not guilty of their crime after they were put to death. but there still is not one shread of evidence that tookie is not guilty.

 

[Kareem]

I agree wit ya Big Easy the evidense used was shotty at best, there were also too many contridictions on the prosecutions part, the shotgun eveidense shoulda been thrown out, 1st the firearms expert said he couldnt conclude that the shots were fired from Tookies gun, then he changes his report later on an says he can now conclude that it was his gun, i think he deserves a new trial given the advances in forensics (sp) in the past 15 years especially in fire arms should be able to be more precise.

 

[PuffnScruff]

I agree wit ya Big Easy the evidense used was shotty at best, there were also too many contridictions on the prosecutions part, the shotgun eveidense shoulda been thrown out, 1st the firearms expert said he couldnt conclude that the shots were fired from Tookies gun, then he changes his report later on an says he can now conclude that it was his gun, i think he deserves a new trial given the advances in forensics (sp) in the past 15 years especially in fire arms should be able to be more precise.

ok, throw out the the shot gun, which was his shotgun, there is proof of that. you still have witnesses, not jail house snitches, witnesses that saw the vehicles in question at the crimes, friends of his that say he bragged about the crimes, and people that give great DETAIL, of the night in question. he was still caught with a note , in his hand writting, planning to escape jail while killing people that got in his way.

he was found guilty by a jury of his peers from a mix of all ethnic background.

if he did not kill the family at the hotel, how is it that he knows how many shots were fired?

this man may have very well have killed more than just these people

 

[Rukas]

if he did not kill the family at the hotel, how is it that he knows how many shots were fired?

If the witnesses werent involved, how do they know Tookie did it?

Thats the same reasoning, just because someone knows how many shots are fired it doesnt mean they fired them. He could have been there, and not fired them. Someone could have told him. He could have read it. He could have heard them. There are too many possibilities to pin the death penalty on someone because they know how many shots were fired.

 

[Rukas]

Check this new evidence:

http://www.savetookie.org/documents/Affidavit.pdf

 

[PuffnScruff]

If the witnesses werent involved, how do they know Tookie did it?

Thats the same reasoning, just because someone knows how many shots are fired it doesnt mean they fired them. He could have been there, and not fired them. Someone could have told him. He could have read it. He could have heard them. There are too many possibilities to pin the death penalty on someone because they know how many shots were fired.

he bragged about it to people that were not involved in the crime.

what i dont get is all these people are coming to tookies defense saying that he was set up by jail house snitches, but those same people use so called "evidnce" from a snitch to try and save him. thats hyprocritical.

if tookie didnt kill them, then who did? the people he was with that night? the same people who were too affraid to commit the murders? the same people tookie got pissed off at because they wouldnt rob the stop n go they were at before they went to the 7-11?

if tookie was white, would any of you even care? if he wasnt the founder of the crips would any of you care? if he wasnt a nobel peace prize nominee laugh: what a joke that is, do you guys even know how easy it is to become a nobel peace prize nominee?) would you care?

 

[AmerikazMost]

Check this new evidence:

http://www.savetookie.org/documents/Affidavit.pdf

daaaamn...this is going to be crazy to see what happens

 

[AmerikazMost]

if tookie was white, would any of you even care? if he wasnt the founder of the crips would any of you care? if he wasnt a nobel peace prize nominee laugh: what a joke that is, do you guys even know how easy it is to become a nobel peace prize nominee?) would you care?

"would he have been in this situation if he wasn't black or the founder of the crips?" is what you need to ask yourself.

 

[Rukas]

he bragged about it to people that were not involved in the crime.

what i dont get is all these people are coming to tookies defense saying that he was set up by jail house snitches, but those same people use so called "evidnce" from a snitch to try and save him. thats hyprocritical.

No its not hypocritical, believeing those that say he is guilty and not those that say he is innocent would be though. You cant pick and choose what snitches you want to believe, therefore you must dismiss ALL of them. If there is evidence that witnesses lied, you cant believe either side and the trial must be re-tried.

if tookie didnt kill them, then who did?

That burden of proof does not fall on the defense.

the people he was with that night? the same people who were too affraid to commit the murders? the same people tookie got pissed off at because they wouldnt rob the stop n go they were at before they went to the 7-11?

I dont know.

if tookie was white, would any of you even care? if he wasnt the founder of the crips would any of you care? if he wasnt a nobel peace prize nominee laugh: what a joke that is, do you guys even know how easy it is to become a nobel peace prize nominee?) would you care?

I dont care that he's black or a crip, I care because he has been rehabilitated (isnt that the whole point of jail?) and has done good for the world and shouldnt be killed.

He has been nominated five times for the Nobel Peace Prize – once by a member of the Swiss Parliament and four times by a growing list of eminent professors from the United States and Europe. He has also been nominated four times for the Nobel Prize for Literature by William Keach, Professor of English Literature from Brown University.

And no, its not easy to be nominated for a nobel peace prize. In a perfect world our leaders would all be candidates, but I dont really see Arnold being nominated for much of anything, yet Tookie's life is in his hands.

He shouldnt be set free, but he shouldnt be killed either.

 

[Eric]

This is a very interesting piece of information. I'd like to see if this makes a difference. I hope it can make headlines, at least.

 

[Eric]

No its not hypocritical, believeing those that say he is guilty and not those that say he is innocent would be though. You cant pick and choose what snitches you want to believe, therefore you must dismiss ALL of them. If there is evidence that witnesses lied, you cant believe either side and the trial must be re-tried.



That burden of proof does not fall on the defense.

I dont know.



I dont care that he's black or a crip, I care because he has been rehabilitated (isnt that the whole point of jail?) and has done good for the world and shouldnt be killed.

He has been nominated five times for the Nobel Peace Prize – once by a member of the Swiss Parliament and four times by a growing list of eminent professors from the United States and Europe. He has also been nominated four times for the Nobel Prize for Literature by William Keach, Professor of English Literature from Brown University.

And no, its not easy to be nominated for a nobel peace prize. In a perfect world our leaders would all be candidates, but I dont really see Arnold being nominated for much of anything, yet Tookie's life is in his hands.

He shouldnt be set free, but he shouldnt be killed either.

I agree with this totally. And that last line is exactly what I feel. I don't think he should be set free, and I dont think he should be killed. There is no smoking gun. He should be taken off deathrow and await a new trial. Thanks.

 

[PuffnScruff]

I dont care that he's black or a crip, I care because he has been rehabilitated (isnt that the whole point of jail?) and has done good for the world and shouldnt be killed.

He has been nominated five times for the Nobel Peace Prize – once by a member of the Swiss Parliament and four times by a growing list of eminent professors from the United States and Europe. He has also been nominated four times for the Nobel Prize for Literature by William Keach, Professor of English Literature from Brown University.

And no, its not easy to be nominated for a nobel peace prize. In a perfect world our leaders would all be candidates, but I dont really see Arnold being nominated for much of anything, yet Tookie's life is in his hands.

He shouldnt be set free, but he shouldnt be killed either.

first there is no proof he has been rehabilitated other than he says he had.

second. all you need to be nominated for a nobel peace prize is a letter from a proffesor and law maker. thats it. there you go, you've been nominated.

 

[PuffnScruff]

"would he have been in this situation if he wasn't black or the founder of the crips?" is what you need to ask yourself.

if he would have still gone down the same direction in life (ie criminal life style) that he went then yes. only difference is nobody would care.

 

[Eric]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/11/williams.execution.ap/index.html 15 minutes after this thread :thumb: this is good

 

[Rukas]

first there is no proof he has been rehabilitated other than he says he had.

second. all you need to be nominated for a nobel peace prize is a letter from a proffesor and law maker. thats it. there you go, you've been nominated.

Im sorry but this post just goes to show you know nothing about what Tookie has done, from writing books to helping bring peace between gangs, and you know nothing about the Nobel Peace Prize.

It's a little bit more complicated, you actually have to do something that people thing deserves the prize, Tookie has done this several times with his actions. I know he is rehabilitated not but what he has said, but by what he has done.

Do you honestly think he's not rehabilitated? Do you honestly think he hasnt done good with his time locked up? What do you base these thoughts on if so? Because I base my thoughts on his recent actions, you seem to be basing yours on his past crimes.