Errors in the Quran

[Rukas]

Ok, Jurhum's excuse for everything is "Islam is perfect", "Islam is never wrong."

I have nothing against Islam, there was a time I considered converting, before I educated myself.

The Quran says it is perfect right? Well then if even one fault is found in the text it wouldnt be perfect would it?

Dont come back replying to this that the Bible isnt perfect either, because thats not the discussion, we know the bible isnt perfect, the church knows the bible isnt perfect, none of us here claim the bible is perfect, and two wrongs wouldnt make a right either.

This is purely a discussion about Islam and the Quran, lets not get into a stone throwing match over it.

Ok, so all I have to do is name one fault in the Quran...

There are none you say?

Well what about this:

The Quran says that there was crucifixions during the time of Pharaoh. This is wrong, as crucifixions are Roman tradition. So the date is off by about 1000-1500 years (cant remember exact dates, irrelevant really).

Well alright, that could maybe be explained some how? Right? Hmm... How about this:

The Quran says that Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Moses. Mary is obviously not Moses' sister, she was alive 1500 years later.

I am sure there are others. Like who exactly wrote the Quran? Was it Allah? The Holy Spirit? Or Angels? The Quran mentions all three.

Theres also all the mistakes Islam makes in relation to Christianity.

The Quran says Christians believe God has sex with Mary in order to concieve Jesus, they dont.

The Quran says that Christians believe the Holy Trinity is the Father, The Mother and The Son, they dont.

The Quran says that the Bible says Prayer should be towards Jerusalem, it doesnt.

The Quran says that Christians believe the Messiah is Allah, they dont.

My point is this, I am not hating on Islam or Muslims, just human ignorance, the Quran is flawed, it has mistakes, thus it is not perfect, so please stop saying it is.

 

[Khaled]

The Quran says Christians believe God has sex with Mary in order to concieve Jesus, they dont.

Quran doesn't say that, it says that Christians believe that Jesus is God's son. The Quran claims Jesus said he was God's servant, not son. (actually, uin Arameiac, the words son and servant sound very similar)

The Quran says that Christians believe the Messiah is Allah, they dont.

some christians do. Allah just means God in Arabic. i ve heard a lot of christians say that Jesus is God. Even in movies about jesus, he says I'm the lord (pr sth lije that)

i ll come back ater or the other issues

 

[Rukas]

Quran doesn't say that, it says that Christians believe that Jesus is God's son. The Quran claims Jesus said he was God's servant, not son. (actually, uin Arameiac, the words son and servant sound very similar)

"How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things." Suras 6:100-101

This passage is trying to disprove Christianity by saying God has no wife to concieve a child with, yet Christians never said God had a wife, or had sex with Mary. Why mention a consort if you're not implying that Christians think God had one?

"They said, "GOD has begotten a son!" Be He glorified. He is the Most Rich. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. You have no proof to support such a blasphemy. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?" Suras 10:68

Same thing as above, but Id like to know, what proof does whoever wrote the Quran have that Jesus is NOT God's son? Im not saying he is or isnt, Im asking how you can discredit someone by saying they have no proof without having proof yourself?

"It does not befit GOD that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is." Sura 19.35

This implies that Christians believe God begot Jesus, that he did something PHYSICAL, in comparison to saying "Be," they dont.

"GOD has never begotten a son. Nor was there ever any other god beside Him. Otherwise, each god would have declared independence with his creations, and they would have competed with each other for dominance. GOD be glorified; far above their claims." Suras 23:91

Once again, same as above. And whats this about Christians saying there were other Gods? They do no such thing.

some christians do. Allah just means God in Arabic. i ve heard a lot of christians say that Jesus is God. Even in movies about jesus, he says I'm the lord (pr sth lije that)

No, Christians say Jesus is the son of God, not Jesus is Allah/God.

i ll come back ater or the other issues

Heres another one, The Quran says Christians say God also had daughters, they dont.

 

[not really ken]

The Quran says that Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Moses. Mary is obviously not Moses' sister, she was alive 1500 years later.

[highlight]At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" [Qur'an 19:27-28]
[/highlight]
This above verse was explained by Mohammed himself in hadith (collection of the prophets sayings and actions)

When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "O sister of Harun" (i.e. Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger(P) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them.

Further the arabic word used for brother/sister needs to be taken into account. The word that is used isn't akhun (blood brother or sister), rather ukhun (brother or sister in clan or faith).
Context of words change given the circumstances they are used in! If I called you brother, I wouldn't mean it biologically and people could just interpret it as that. But in the Quran the word that is used is a word that describes brotherhood/sisterhood in other ways not in the biological sense.

I am sure there are others. Like who exactly wrote the Quran? Was it Allah? The Holy Spirit? Or Angels? The Quran mentions all three.

Right ok, can you please provide textual evidence from the Quran where these claims are made? Apart from the universally accepted proof of 'i am sure'. I don't exactly know what to disprove or debate here as you have made a claim based on no valid evidence that I can read or see.

Let me start! The Quran was written by Allah and revealed through the Messenger Mohammed, it says this in the Quran!!
You've come here to find fault and discrepancy within the Qu'ran, or contradiction (no problem with that), therefore prove somekind of understanding and prove the fact that you have actually read the Quran, yourself or from someother source.

The Quran says Christians believe God has sex with Mary in order to concieve Jesus, they dont.

Where in the Qu'ran does it say this.
In the bible it says (in one version) "the holy spirit overcameMary" Euphemism for sex? I tryed finding the verse but can't, unless it has been changed in the latest version. Rukus you yourself said that everybody knows that the bible is inherently flawed and this is admitted by everyone, so how can you disprove a claim or call something contradictory in the Quran by comparing what it says in the bible. the bible is proven beyond doubt to be full of discrepancy differing version after differing version, but when it is something that is contradicting the Quran it all of a sudden becomes 'Gods perfect word'

The Quran says that Christians believe the Holy Trinity is the Father, The Mother and The Son, they dont.

I am very eager to see this verse of the Quran!

Heres another one, The Quran says Christians say God also had daughters, they dont.

I have searched and searched and searched for this, doesn't by default mean your wrong becasue I haven't found it. but can you please show me the verse.

 

[Rukas]

[highlight]At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" [Qur'an 19:27-28]
[/highlight]
This above verse was explained by Mohammed himself in hadith (collection of the prophets sayings and actions)

Why would they mention that she is sister of Aaron (who is Moses brother) if he lived 1500 years before Mary? It doesnt make sense at all.

Further the arabic word used for brother/sister needs to be taken into account. The word that is used isn't akhun (blood brother or sister), rather ukhun (brother or sister in clan or faith).
Context of words change given the circumstances they are used in! If I called you brother, I wouldn't mean it biologically and people could just interpret it as that. But in the Quran the word that is used is a word that describes brotherhood/sisterhood in other ways not in the biological sense.

That still doesnt make sense, I wouldnt refer to someone as my brother who lived 1500 years ago in passing coversation.

The Quran got it wrong, and confused Mary with Miriam.

Right ok, can you please provide textual evidence from the Quran where these claims are made? Apart from the universally accepted proof of 'i am sure'. I don't exactly know what to disprove or debate here as you have made a claim based on no valid evidence that I can read or see.

When have I ever said "I am sure" and not backed something up? Come on. No valid evidence? Read your Quran more carefully before you call me a liar Ken. Read below! Id actually like an appology for the lies you just said about me ken.

Let me start! The Quran was written by Allah and revealed through the Messenger Mohammed, it says this in the Quran!!
You've come here to find fault and discrepancy within the Qu'ran, or contradiction (no problem with that), therefore prove somekind of understanding and prove the fact that you have actually read the Quran, yourself or from someother source.

Sure. Did you really think Id make some claims without proof? Maybe Ive misunderstood something, Im not saying Im 100% correct, please correct me if Ive made a mistake and I shall accept it, but if everything can not be corrected, than the Quran is not perfect.

Suras 53:0 onwards says Allah dictated the Quran to Mohammed, however others say the Holy Spirit brought it down, which was it?

"The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters." Sura 16:105

"This is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. The Honest Spirit came down with it.
To reveal it into your heart, that you may be one of the warners." Suras 26:192 to 194



Isnt the Honest Spirit the Angel Gabriel? Regardless, heres another passage that says Gabriel brought down the Quran and therefore it was not written by Mohammed:


"Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers." " Sura 2:97

Where in the Qu'ran does it say this.
In the bible it says (in one version) "the holy spirit overcameMary" Euphemism for sex? I tryed finding the verse but can't, unless it has been changed in the latest version. Rukus you yourself said that everybody knows that the bible is inherently flawed and this is admitted by everyone, so how can you disprove a claim or call something contradictory in the Quran by comparing what it says in the bible. the bible is proven beyond doubt to be full of discrepancy differing version after differing version, but when it is something that is contradicting the Quran it all of a sudden becomes 'Gods perfect word'

Because it is two totally different situations. The Bible has some errors, it's full of stories written by men, as I believe is the Quran. The Quran says that the Bible says that God physically had a child with Mary, the Bible does not say this, and never has, therefor this is not a discrepancy made by the Bible, but by the Quran.

A says that B says C, B does not say C, B can not be at fault, A is at fault for saying B said something it didnt.

Or are you telling me the Bible is at fault for not saying something the Quran said it did? Come on now.

I am very eager to see this verse of the Quran!

Suras 5:73-75 mentions God not being part of a Holy Trinity, and Jesus and Mary not being on the same level as God, it does not mention the Holy Spirit at all, which implies it is treating Jesus AND Mary as the other two in the Trinity.

I have searched and searched and searched for this, doesn't by default mean your wrong becasue I haven't found it. but can you please show me the verse.

"Yet, they set up beside GOD idols from among the jinns, though He is the One who created them. They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims."

"They even assign daughters to GOD, be He glorified, while they prefer for themselves what they like."

 

[Khaled]

"How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things." Suras 6:100-101

This passage is trying to disprove Christianity by saying God has no wife to concieve a child with, yet Christians never said God had a wife, or had sex with Mary. Why mention a consort if you're not implying that Christians think God had one?

the passage does not try to disprove christianity. Islam and the Quran recognize christianity and Judaism.


1st, its not written in interrogative form
2nd, the passage is badly translated. it doesn't say "consort" as in wife, it says "equal/partner"
3rd, unlike this quote, the arabic souras doesnt show any causality.it says that god never had neither a son nor a creator nor an equal.

 

[Rukas]

^^ If thats the case, then thats one down.

But that poses the question, if Islam has poorly translated copies of the Quran, and they are not perfect yet part of Islam, then Islam as a church is not perfect.

Anyway, thats one of many, so dont dwell on it. Thank you for clearing it up for me, however theres another quote that I posted that says the same thing.

 

[Khaled]

Same thing as above, but Id like to know, what proof does whoever wrote the Quran have that Jesus is NOT God's son? Im not saying he is or isnt, Im asking how you can discredit someone by saying they have no proof without having proof yourself?

this part of a set of beliefs, Christians belief he's God''s son, Muslim believe that Jesus was just a prophet.

Heres another one, The Quran says Christians say God also had daughters, they dont.

the Quran said "some claimed that angels were God's daughters", it didn't mention christians

 

[critikaldesignz]

Aren't we ALL God's sons if we were all creations of God?

 

[Khaled]

^^ If thats the case, then thats one down.

But that poses the question, if Islam has poorly translated copies of the Quran, and they are not perfect yet part of Islam, then Islam as a church is not perfect.

Anyway, thats one of many, so dont dwell on it. Thank you for clearing it up for me, however theres another quote that I posted that says the same thing.

there are not supposed to be "copies of the Quran", its the same version everywhere
but you have to understand that the arabic language is much more difficult than English, and the way the Quran is writen is very difficut (kinda like a poem), even for arab speakers. It is also said that the Quran has a lot of hidden meanings and a lot of muslims say it cannot be translated.
some words have different meanings and are used at different points with a different meaning meant in each occurence.

 

[Rukas]

^^ Why would God make his word so easy to understand? Seems he would have saved everyone a lot of trouble and pain by saying what he meant straight forward and to the point, had he been the one to write it that is.

You still have all my other points to disprove. I have more coming tommorow after my exam, for now Im out so you all have time to gang up on me and call me a hater/anti-Muslim or whatever you feel like today. Have fun. :thumb:

 

[Khaled]

here's something about the crucifixion thing,

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html


... Hater

i think it started in Persia, not Rome.

 

[not really ken]

Why would they mention that she is sister of Aaron (who is Moses brother) if he lived 1500 years before Mary? It doesnt make sense at all.

The following is a transcript from an actual copy of the Quran. This following is known as 'tafseer' which is a scholorly explanation of a particular verse:

[highlight]From the identity of names it has been generally imagined by Christian writers that the Koran here confounds Mary the mother of Jesus with Mary of Miriam, the sister of Moses and Aaron; which intolerable anachronism, if it were certain, is sufficient of itself to destroy the pretended authority of this book. But though Mohammed may be supposed to have been ignorant enough in ancient history and chronology, to have committed so gross a blunder; yet I do not see how it can be made out from the words of the Koran. For it does not follow, because two persons have the same name, and have each a father and brother who bear the same names, that they must therefore necessarily be the same whereby it manifestly appears that Mohammed well knew and asserted that Moses preceded Jesus several ages. And the commentators accordingly fail not to tell us, that there had passed about one thousand eight hundred years between Amran the father of Moses and Amrean the father of the Virgin Mary: they also make them the sons of different persons; the first, they say, was the son of Yeshar, or Izhar (though he was really his brother) the son of Kahath, the son of Levi; and the other was the son of Matthan, whose genealogy they trace, but in a very corrupt and imperfect manner, up to David and thence to Adam. It must be observed that though the Virgin Mary is called in the Koran, the sister of Aaron, yet she is nowhere called the sister of Moses.[/highlight]

That still doesnt make sense, I wouldnt refer to someone as my brother who lived 1500 years ago in passing coversation.

the reference was not made to someone who lived 1500 years ago, but rather to someone else. What you would call a namesake. and the aaron who was referred to was never reffered to as 'the brother of (any) moses'

The Quran got it wrong, and confused Mary with Miriam.

Mohammed makes clear that Moses preceded Jesus by many centuries. He knew that!

When have I ever said "I am sure" and not backed something up? Come on. No valid evidence? Read your Quran more carefully before you call me a liar Ken. Read below! Id actually like an appology for the lies you just said about me ken.

When the hell did I call you a liar? I have simply questioned your proofs. Ypou said the following

I am sure there are others. Like who exactly wrote the Quran? Was it Allah? The Holy Spirit? Or Angels? The Quran mentions all three.

I asked for somekind of text where it says that the Quran was written by any other than Allah

Suras 53:0 onwards says Allah dictated the Quran to Mohammed, however others say the Holy Spirit brought it down, which was it?

First of all, Allah revealed the Quran via divine inspiration, this divine inspiration was always dictated by Allah. In many hadith the companions of the messenger narrated that they would see the messenger sweat and be in difficulty when the Quran was being revealed to the messenger.

[highlight] Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire. It was divine inspiration.
Dictated by the Most Powerful[/highlight]

"The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters." Sura 16:105

at other times as your quote shows Allah would send the Angel gabriel with the revelation.

"This is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. The Honest Spirit came down with it.
To reveal it into your heart, that you may be one of the warners." Suras 26:192 to 194

Again antotherverse showing that the angel gabriel was sent with revelation.

Isnt the Honest Spirit the Angel Gabriel? Regardless, heres another passage that says Gabriel brought down the Quran and therefore it was not written by Mohammed:


"Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers." " Sura 2:97

yes this is correct, Gabriel was sent by Allah with more revelation to give to Mohammed so that Mohammed could "provide guidance and good news for the believers."
The Quran was sent over 22 years 5 months and 14 days. it was over this period that the quran was revealed by Allah either through divine inspiration or sent down using the Angel gabriel.

Because it is two totally different situations. The Bible has some errors, it's full of stories written by men, as I believe is the Quran. The Quran says that the Bible says that God physically had a child with Mary, the Bible does not say this, and never has, therefor this is not a discrepancy made by the Bible, but by the Quran.

A says that B says C, B does not say C, B can not be at fault, A is at fault for saying B said something it didnt.

Or are you telling me the Bible is at fault for not saying something the Quran said it did? Come on now.

ermm, no. Nowhere in the Quran does it say that in the bible it says that God had sex with Mary. What it does say is that "they say (not neccesarily referring to the bible but sometimes to the pagans who lived in Mecca) God begoteth a son" . Which it does say everywhere in the bible. the Son of God...

Suras 5:73-75 mentions God not being part of a Holy Trinity, and Jesus and Mary not being on the same level as God, it does not mention the Holy Spirit at all, which implies it is treating Jesus AND Mary as the other two in the Trinity.

i don't know much about the trinity and everything.

"Yet, they set up beside GOD idols from among the jinns, though He is the One who created them. They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims."

"They even assign daughters to GOD, be He glorified, while they prefer for themselves what they like."

ThEY does not in this verse to the Bible rather to the pagans who lived around Mohammed. The people that this verse refers to was not the bible and Chritans becasue Christians never placed jinns besides God. Pagans did. The pagan people who placed jinns (spirits) besdies God were the one who said that God had sons and daughters. many people still subscribe to this and talk about islamic polytheism and this idea of Islamic polytheism comes from the pagan accusations about Allah having daughters.

before Muhammed was born, the moon god had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat.. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca the kabah. The pagans accused Mohammed of hijacking this god and this gods three daughters etc as part of his 'plagarised quran' and that Mohammed later on took these verse out of the Quran. This verse is a rebuttal of these accusations. and has got nothing to with the bible or christianity.

there is also a verse about some giving feminin names to the angels and saying they are Gods daughters, yet again no mention is made that the bible says this.

 

[not really ken]

Im out so you all have time to gang up on me and call me a hater/anti-Muslim or whatever you feel like today. Have fun. :thumb:

lol, wtf?

 

[Minardi]

I knew the "argument" about arabic words mean thousands of things would come up...

now im waiting for the "argument" that a year for allah can be anything between a millisecond to millions of years so all of Rukas pointed out erro!¤"¤# [Edited by Allah] will be thrown into the bin.

Its funny that people believe in a book writtin by human beings wouldnt have any errors, especially when all muslims say the same things : "That word could mean this and that".... Then HOW DO YOU KNOW wich words are the right ones!??? What is the qurans message if it can be altered and translated into thousands of diffrent meanings?? it doesnt make sense people

 

[Baukem]

if bible isnt perfect and quran isnt either
then the jews were right

 

[not really ken]

I knew the "argument" about arabic words mean thousands of things would come up...

now im waiting for the "argument" that a year for allah can be anything between a millisecond to millions of years so all of Rukas pointed out erro!¤"¤# [Edited by Allah] will be thrown into the bin.

Its funny that people believe in a book writtin by human beings wouldnt have any errors, especially when all muslims say the same things : "That word could mean this and that".... Then HOW DO YOU KNOW wich words are the right ones!??? What is the qurans message if it can be altered and translated into thousands of diffrent meanings?? it doesnt make sense people

it cant be altered or transalated into millions of different meanings. Rather something can get lost in transalation. Hence the word brother can be taken literally or metaphorically. Wheas arabic has one word for the biological brother and another for the metaphorical brother. How do you transalate a word into english when there is no english equivalent? That doesn't make sense and needs to be accounted for.

 

[Khaled]

Its funny that people believe in a book writtin by human beings wouldnt have any errors, especially when all muslims say the same things : "That word could mean this and that".... Then HOW DO YOU KNOW wich words are the right ones!???

Well, the Quran was dictated by God, it wasn't altered nor changed through time. This is why it cannot be wrong

we don't know what interpretation is the right one (at least, we can't be sure, just use common sense)!!! this is why there are so many problems with Islam.

What is the qurans message if it can be altered and translated into thousands of diffrent meanings?? it doesnt make sense people

back when arabs living in the deserst were killing each others, raping innocent women, killing innocent children, committing atrocities while being drunk. Applying the Quran literally was a good thing.

The Quran is a spiritual book. Not a historical essay, nor a set of laws. People can find in it exactly what they need. People have different (and even contradicting) spiritual needs, and no matter what they will find it there. And not just that, you can even find scientific facts, unfortunately, no one has been smart enough to draw these facts direvctly from the book, but rather, people match scientific discoveries with passages of the quran without drawing anything new.

Another poblem is that people are more or less forced to believe in certain interpretations, and islam as a religion, is not as open minded as the book it's based on, because religion is based on interpretations. I actually noticed that non muslim arabs who read the Quran respect it far more than actual muslims.

I am not a believer, but i think the Quran was the greatest and most usefull book ever. Dismissing it because of the faults of Islam is like saying elkectricity is bad because you can get electrocuted, or nuclear energy is bad because it can be used as a weapon.

 

[Minardi]

it cant be altered or transalated into millions of different meanings. Rather something can get lost in transalation. Hence the word brother can be taken literally or metaphorically. Wheas arabic has one word for the biological brother and another for the metaphorical brother. How do you transalate a word into english when there is no english equivalent? That doesn't make sense and needs to be accounted for.

come on, if people can be confused about the real message in the quran, how can it hold its original message?

Heres an examble on how a verse in the quran can be read in (atleast) two diffrent ways :

(4:34)
"... As for those women whom you are experiencing a fear of disloyalty from, you shall first advice them, then (if they continue) you may desert them in bed, then you may strike them out.(4:34).

(4:34)
"... As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly)..."

One shows great tolerance, second tells you to beat your wife... wich message is the real? If muslims use the argument that the bible is false because it has been modernised by holy people, then i ask you.... whats the diffrence from having the quran wich can be read diffrently and thereby have its message potentially translated falsely, compared to a bible wich is translated to avoid mistakes in a modern society? i see no diffrence.

 

[Minardi]

Well, the Quran was dictated by God, it wasn't altered nor changed through time. This is why it cannot be wrong

Even if it wasnt changed i wouldnt buy it, just look at the story about noahs ark... if people seriously believe in that story alone, it shows me that some people are extremely uneducated about how the world functions in reality. A great story? sure it is, so is alot of other religous stories.

we don't know what interpretation is the right one (at least, we can't be sure, just use common sense)!!! this is why there are so many problems with Islam.

Agree. However thats only one of the problems.
As i see it here, it looks like some people are stuck by a lifestyle from around 1300-1400, no doubt it would conflict in a modern world society. christians avoided this by modernising the bible.

back when arabs living in the deserst were killing each others, raping innocent women, killing innocent children, committing atrocities while being drunk. Applying the Quran literally was a good thing.

Again i agree.

The Quran is a spiritual book. Not a historical essay, nor a set of laws. People can find in it exactly what they need. People have different (and even contradicting) spiritual needs, and no matter what they will find it there. And not just that, you can even find scientific facts, unfortunately, no one has been smart enough to draw these facts direvctly from the book, but rather, people match scientific discoveries with passages of the quran without drawing anything new.

I respect the quran as a book, just as the bible, however its nothing more then that for me.

And about scientific "facts" in it, for me it looks more like theres about possible 2 scenarios : 1. the people around the time already knew it. 2. some people overanalyse the text, humans tend to do this alot if they believe in something... just look at the believers of pac being alive, they bend stuff to fit their cause (Some doesnt even know they do it)...

Another poblem is that people are more or less forced to believe in certain interpretations, and islam as a religion, is not as open minded as the book it's based on, because religion is based on interpretations. I actually noticed that non muslim arabs who read the Quran respect it far more than actual muslims.

Thats how i believe it should be... up to the individual to decide.

I am not a believer, but i think the Quran was the greatest and most usefull book ever. Dismissing it because of the faults of Islam is like saying elkectricity is bad because you can get electrocuted, or nuclear energy is bad because it can be used as a weapon.

About your last point it dont hope you thought i was comparing it to something like that

Thank you for debating and not just hating because im sceptic. Respect for that :thumb: