Up until December 7th 1941 America was neutral therefore how can you expect them to virtually join the war on the Allied side when the isolationist movement was still in control of the country? If FDR had to of intervened as you so wish (i.e. joining the war effort right away) he would have been quickly ejected from power. Put yourself in the position of the American leadership in the early war years before disparaging their efforts.
Auschwitz
- Thread starter jaimie.uk fan
- Start date
As you are of Polish descent it is easy to see why you concentrate on your own peoples losses. However to come out with a comment like "Everytime Holywood or anyone makes a movie or anything bout the Holocaust its Jews this and Jews that. Not suprising considering that Jews run Holywood, they use the shit to their advantage for pity" is not only ignorant but also sad. Why sad? Sad because your letting yourself fall into the same frame of mind which enabled 11 million innocents be slaughtered.
You can't say that the US were the only nation t have a 2 front war...
Apart from the Pacific war there was really no "front line" for theme in Europe til the '44 offensive...
And USSR also had a two(or more even) war front, west, east, south asia as well as the french and the british who were fighting in Europe, Asia and Africa...
Apart from the Pacific war there was really no "front line" for theme in Europe til the '44 offensive...
And USSR also had a two(or more even) war front, west, east, south asia as well as the french and the british who were fighting in Europe, Asia and Africa...
First of all, check your spellin it goes like this "Wir haben es nicht gewußt" - there ain't no verb "gewissen". Anyway. No everybody knew. Simple as that. Jews were send somewhere else, that is what they knew but not everyone knew about death camps. And of course there was a lot of pressure on the people as well, I mean if you were against the nazis it wasn't easy you know. not at all. It wasn't like from one day to an other there were no more jews around. It was a slow "process". Many seem to forget that the torture of jews people didn't start with the camps. It ended there, but the torture happend for years while they were still part of the society. They couldn't get no jobs, they had no longer the right to go to university, etc etc etc.... All this was part of the crime, we shouldn't only see the dead bodies. Oh well. And dead bodies smell but if it's not like you could smell them in whole germany, what's the point?
Not everybody knew.
Not everybody knew.
OF course everyone tht was against the nazis was suspected and was in danger.
Still this ain't everybody if u ask me. People knew that the jews get "moved" but I don't think anyone realized that it was str8 up killin.
I think that the system develloped and once it was established, the people weren't able to stop it. Nazis did a great job of controllin and manipulate.
Still this ain't everybody if u ask me. People knew that the jews get "moved" but I don't think anyone realized that it was str8 up killin.
I think that the system develloped and once it was established, the people weren't able to stop it. Nazis did a great job of controllin and manipulate.
At places like Auschwitz, thousands of corpses were burned each day. The absolutely terrible smell of burning human flesh would have unquestionably made it around the camp. And no, it's not everybody. But it was a whole hell of a lot of them.
What prevented most Germans from stopping it was apathy.
It's important to remember that in the 1930s the Germans democratically elected fascists who didn't hide their rabid anti-semitism. Hitler was elected more than 10 years after writing Mein Kampf, a well circulated book. To say Mein Kampf contained overt anti-Semitism would be a vast understatement.
What prevented most Germans from stopping it was apathy.
It's important to remember that in the 1930s the Germans democratically elected fascists who didn't hide their rabid anti-semitism. Hitler was elected more than 10 years after writing Mein Kampf, a well circulated book. To say Mein Kampf contained overt anti-Semitism would be a vast understatement.
Wow wow... I read all this, so my reply will be a bit large as I've been reading a lot from the 2nd world war and the jews specially. (not jew, not arab, not having anything to do with them or the germans or anything, this will be my own position.)
Those soldiers that were the killers of jews (The Einsatzgruppen) chose to kill jews, they could avoid it if they wanted it, but the ones that were in here, were because they wanted to kill jews. Same as the antisemitic groups in Hungry, Ucrain, Romania, etc.
They infected prisoners with diseases to check what happened to them. All those experiments were made at concentration camps.
The same quote used by the nazi propaganda! My congratulations, seems the history repeats.
Those soldiers that were the killers of jews (The Einsatzgruppen) chose to kill jews, they could avoid it if they wanted it, but the ones that were in here, were because they wanted to kill jews. Same as the antisemitic groups in Hungry, Ucrain, Romania, etc.
They infected prisoners with diseases to check what happened to them. All those experiments were made at concentration camps.
The same quote used by the nazi propaganda! My congratulations, seems the history repeats.
Did you forget that the United States was in the midst of a decade long Great Depression? The American industries that made the war equipment sent to the Allies had to be paid, and despite your efforts to portray otherwise, all Allied nations were heavily indebted to the United States, with only the Scandinavian countries ever repaying their debts to America.
How are you equating a lack of American civilian deaths with a diminished American war effort? Instead of belittling the American role in the war, perhaps it should be commended for stretching tens of thousands of miles on three fronts.
And your "fact" that America flattens and then sends in troops is an embellishment. The United States suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties, and little islands like Iwo Jima and Okinawa took months to occupy.
The American forces couldn't flatten much of anything in the Pacific theater because of complex underground Japanese installations. And the American forces attempts to "flatten" the Normandy coast on the morning of June 6 1944 was a total failure. To act like every other country did grunt work except for the United States is ludicrous.
This is simply untrue. In fact, FDR had signed a Neutrality Act years before WWII started which stopped the United States from trading military materials with any European nation, from Britain to Russia to Germany.
The truth is that as soon as the first shots were fired, FDR started skirting that Act to aid the Allies, specifically the British. In addition to our pilots flying for the RAF, we were openly shooting at German boats in the Atlantic by 1940.
American soldiers were fighting the Axis powers from summer of 1940 til the end of the war. So it was 5 years, not six.
Care to tell us what propaganda in particular you're referring to?
How are you equating a lack of American civilian deaths with a diminished American war effort? Instead of belittling the American role in the war, perhaps it should be commended for stretching tens of thousands of miles on three fronts.
And your "fact" that America flattens and then sends in troops is an embellishment. The United States suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties, and little islands like Iwo Jima and Okinawa took months to occupy.
The American forces couldn't flatten much of anything in the Pacific theater because of complex underground Japanese installations. And the American forces attempts to "flatten" the Normandy coast on the morning of June 6 1944 was a total failure. To act like every other country did grunt work except for the United States is ludicrous.
This is simply untrue. In fact, FDR had signed a Neutrality Act years before WWII started which stopped the United States from trading military materials with any European nation, from Britain to Russia to Germany.
The truth is that as soon as the first shots were fired, FDR started skirting that Act to aid the Allies, specifically the British. In addition to our pilots flying for the RAF, we were openly shooting at German boats in the Atlantic by 1940.
American soldiers were fighting the Axis powers from summer of 1940 til the end of the war. So it was 5 years, not six.
Care to tell us what propaganda in particular you're referring to?
How is that propaganda? A large amount of slavs did die, a very large amount, not too much lower then jewish atrocities.
And Rukas is right, Jews do run hollywood, thats not the least bit antisemetic, they run hollywood to a large extent, and a lot of coorperate America. Theres a clear reason why it is the way it is, During the holocaust in WWII, many jews, naturally, tried to flee;However, only a select few were fortunate enough to escape the horrific atrocities in Europe. Those Jews that were able to flee, were usually jews that had alot of money, or Scientists etc, pretty smart (in that sense)/rich people. Then you have a group of Jewish entertainers that were kept alive to a large part to entertain. In a way genitic weeding took place.
Im not saying every Jew is rich or has something to do with Entertainment/Coorperate world of America, but there is a large percentage of the small population that do live in America, Simply for that reason that Ive mentioned.
Now As for everyone else that has died in WWII, in horrific ways, they should be remembered too, there were death camps not just for Jews but for everyone; however, that shouldnt take anything away from those jews that died.
What needs to be remembered is it was a horrible display of mankind, and it should not be repeated. And you cant put the blame really on the German people, they were in the mist of a depression, when you stomach hurts you will do whatever it takes. A mass mob feeling came over them, just like it would with any other group of people (for the most part). You can put some blame on how the aftermath of WWI was treated.
And Rukas is right, Jews do run hollywood, thats not the least bit antisemetic, they run hollywood to a large extent, and a lot of coorperate America. Theres a clear reason why it is the way it is, During the holocaust in WWII, many jews, naturally, tried to flee;However, only a select few were fortunate enough to escape the horrific atrocities in Europe. Those Jews that were able to flee, were usually jews that had alot of money, or Scientists etc, pretty smart (in that sense)/rich people. Then you have a group of Jewish entertainers that were kept alive to a large part to entertain. In a way genitic weeding took place.
Im not saying every Jew is rich or has something to do with Entertainment/Coorperate world of America, but there is a large percentage of the small population that do live in America, Simply for that reason that Ive mentioned.
Now As for everyone else that has died in WWII, in horrific ways, they should be remembered too, there were death camps not just for Jews but for everyone; however, that shouldnt take anything away from those jews that died.
What needs to be remembered is it was a horrible display of mankind, and it should not be repeated. And you cant put the blame really on the German people, they were in the mist of a depression, when you stomach hurts you will do whatever it takes. A mass mob feeling came over them, just like it would with any other group of people (for the most part). You can put some blame on how the aftermath of WWI was treated.
Did you forget America's policy of isolationism? They weren't supposed to be getting into anything......but they'd happily make money off it. Remember also, like I said, America was selling goods to Germany.....yeah they sure helped the Allies there. Then Pearl Harbour happened, America got worried & joined the war.
Pay America back?? I want you to specify if you're talking about repayment of debts incurred through purchase of materials etc. - ie. during war - or if you're talking about the Martial Plan.
Let me tell you now though, the Allies paid America in money & blood. I mean, if America had supported the Allies from the start instead of just when she got scared, the war wouldn't have been as devastating & these 'debts' would not have been incurred.
Also, don't think the Allies aren't paying for it now in other ways. By accepting American aid some of the Allies were left indebted to America in such a way that it still plays a factor in today's politics. You think America would be as strong as she is today without the World Wars? The answer is no. Now the world has to pay.
Remind me of the 3 fronts on which America was fighting.
Then remind me how long America was in the war. Then remind me how long Britain was in the war. Then remind me who stood against Germany by herself when her Allies had all but surrendered.
Not America.
And how can I do this? Maybe because Russians were charging down their enemy with anything they could lay their hands on, while America decimates areas before sending in any of their 'heroic' citizens.
As for commending them. I am meant to commend a country for being selfish, heartless, snake-like & dramatic? I don't think so.
LOL!! Put that down to the inadequency of American troops who constantly overestimate their worth while underestimating their enemy.
You quoted me on my reference to Nazis & thus, Germany & the war in Europe yet somehow you keep talking about Japan - avoiding something are we?
American forces attempted & failed - how familiar does that sound?
It's not coincidence America fail time & time again & take mass (military) casualties whenever they 'fight'.
Btw, never did I say America did nothing at all. That would be ludicrous.
And this proves.....? Oh right I get it, you were trying to tell me that America doesn't classify oil as a 'military material'. OK, great point.
And I wasn't just speaking of the government.
Understand that I have a lot of respect for FDR, but he wasn't in control of all the materials was he? No.
There was also an 'elevated' price for a lot of materials.
America can't take the credit for some individuals having heart, balls & morals.
'Openly shooting'? That's cool but they weren't exactly hounding them were they?
Also, Britain had the greatest Navy in the world & was quite comfortable, under the circumstances, with a naval battle.
OK, British soldiers have been fighting for quite a few hundred years then. And there I was, thinking we were discussing America in World War II, not America before they joined the war.
Well, I doubt you would recognize it. Unless you took off your spectacles of course..... you know, the rose-tinted ones.
Pay America back?? I want you to specify if you're talking about repayment of debts incurred through purchase of materials etc. - ie. during war - or if you're talking about the Martial Plan.
Let me tell you now though, the Allies paid America in money & blood. I mean, if America had supported the Allies from the start instead of just when she got scared, the war wouldn't have been as devastating & these 'debts' would not have been incurred.
Also, don't think the Allies aren't paying for it now in other ways. By accepting American aid some of the Allies were left indebted to America in such a way that it still plays a factor in today's politics. You think America would be as strong as she is today without the World Wars? The answer is no. Now the world has to pay.
Remind me of the 3 fronts on which America was fighting.
Then remind me how long America was in the war. Then remind me how long Britain was in the war. Then remind me who stood against Germany by herself when her Allies had all but surrendered.
Not America.
And how can I do this? Maybe because Russians were charging down their enemy with anything they could lay their hands on, while America decimates areas before sending in any of their 'heroic' citizens.
As for commending them. I am meant to commend a country for being selfish, heartless, snake-like & dramatic? I don't think so.
LOL!! Put that down to the inadequency of American troops who constantly overestimate their worth while underestimating their enemy.
You quoted me on my reference to Nazis & thus, Germany & the war in Europe yet somehow you keep talking about Japan - avoiding something are we?
American forces attempted & failed - how familiar does that sound?
It's not coincidence America fail time & time again & take mass (military) casualties whenever they 'fight'.
Btw, never did I say America did nothing at all. That would be ludicrous.
And this proves.....? Oh right I get it, you were trying to tell me that America doesn't classify oil as a 'military material'. OK, great point.
And I wasn't just speaking of the government.
Understand that I have a lot of respect for FDR, but he wasn't in control of all the materials was he? No.
There was also an 'elevated' price for a lot of materials.
America can't take the credit for some individuals having heart, balls & morals.
'Openly shooting'? That's cool but they weren't exactly hounding them were they?
Also, Britain had the greatest Navy in the world & was quite comfortable, under the circumstances, with a naval battle.
OK, British soldiers have been fighting for quite a few hundred years then. And there I was, thinking we were discussing America in World War II, not America before they joined the war.
Well, I doubt you would recognize it. Unless you took off your spectacles of course..... you know, the rose-tinted ones.
America had and and continues to have some of the most courageous troops in the world. Their skill, dedication and effectiveness is admired the world round. In two world wars they have tipped the balance in the Allied favour. In WWII especially, the U.S. Army proved the resiliance and sheer toughness of their troops. For a time Hitler believed American soldiers to be the "weak-links" in the Allied war effort. The invasion of France and later Battle of the Bulge proved this ludicrous assumption wrong. All evidence points to the fact that the majority of U.S. troops were of the highest calibre. To suggest otherwise is simply untrue.
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