64 Year Old man, brutally beat by police, caught on tape...

#21
There is never any justification for police brutality.

Just like in this scenario, it does not take physical violence like punches to subdue a 64 year old drunk man, if these officers can not arrest this man by proper procedure they should not be officers in the first place, i dont care what situation they are under or pressure or stress, it is absolutely no excuse to take it out on another being just because "you can"
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#22
AnarchistFunk said:
There is never any justification for police brutality.

Just like in this scenario, it does not take physical violence like punches to subdue a 64 year old drunk man, if these officers can not arrest this man by proper procedure they should not be officers in the first place, i dont care what situation they are under or pressure or stress, it is absolutely no excuse to take it out on another being just because "you can"
It can be pretty hard to arrest a drunk person if they're properly pissed :p

Still, it's hard to judge. Jokerman says it's probably justified, other people scream police brutality and racism. I'm in between. With the info we get it's awfully hard to make a proper judgement call on this.

If someone resists arrest, he/she can expect to get hit. Simple as that. The point for me is, did the officers "stop in time" or did they decided to dish out some more for good measure? Because that's what i would wholly be against.
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#23
its going to be hard to arrest anyone who does not want to be arrested. its going to be tuff and may take a few officers to arrest one person just because they are resisting arrest and are going to do whatever they can not to be arrested.

this old man screwed himself over by saying he was not resisting arrest. the video clearly shows that he was.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#25
News update:

...Davis said he had been walking in the French Quarter and approached a mounted police officer to ask about the curfew in the city when another officer interrupted.

"This other guy interfered and I said he shouldn't," Davis said. "I started to cross the street and — bam — I got it. ... All I know is this guy attacked me and said, `I will kick your ass,' and they proceeded to do it."

"THE OTHER GUY (Policeman!) INTERFERED AND I SAID HE SHOULDN'T..."

Uh Oh! :eek:
A No Win for everyone involved.


If someone takes an aggressive stance with an officer and threatens him harm, or threatens the harm of a bystander/victim, the officer better damn well do something other than stand there and engage in verbal masturbation with the subject.

When someone decides to put up a fight, the police have a job to do, and sometimes it's an ugly one. It would have been a whole other story if the punches occurred after he was handcuffed and had given up. All the strikes occurred while he was ACTIVELY resisting.

The last I checked, officers are trained and authorized to meet force/resistance with the next level above to gain compliance. You don’t wait until someone shoots you before you can shoot, you don’t have to wait to be punched before you can strike them. And if you underestimate someone due to age or sex, you better have a casket picked out in advance

The cops may have been able to control the situation without so many punches, but we were not there and we don’t know how threatened they felt. These guys are working with raw emotion after Katrina...while that is no excuse...its understandable. As far as the cop going after the journalist...what do you expect? The news reports have ripped the city they live and work in to shreds ...just as much as Katrina did physically. To the cops, any journalist represents the continued bashing of the city...The Hurricane is still causing damage in their eyes and they can’t do anything about it. Every prick with a camera and news badge is out to report on the bad guys.... Technically, the reporter could even be charged with obstruction of justice and inciting a riot. It would be dismissed, no doubt, but it’s not a stretch.

One thing that disturbs me about these videotapes is that they always catch the action mid-incident. We never get to see the disorderly suspect at the onset of the episode before the officers have him (or her) at least partially under control. The media never provides the public with photos of the officers' cuts and abrasions either; we only get to see the suspect's injuries. They also fail to address the fact that facial wounds bleed profusely, and usually look much worse then they are.

Having said all of the above...this incident is and will continue to be sensationalized only because the Sergeant grabbed the AP guy and slammed him against a car. IMHO, it's a media payback for the way the AP guy was manhandled without justification.

Definitely looks like those cops are going to be thrown to the wolves.

To me, the department is overreacting big time. The officer (S.M. Smith) should probably be charged and/or fired for his contact with the reporter, but the others were handing a violent and resistive subject how they were trained.

The NOPD has worked under the most unimaginable conditions of any PD in the United States, ever. With all the military and other LE agencies in New Orleans right now, I don't even know why they still have the NOPD working 12-hour shifts. It's obvious they're at the breaking point, What other PD has 3/4 of its members that have lost everything...including their homes and families?

We sleep soundly in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

Winston Churchill
 
#26
I apoligize for over reacting in my earlier post.

BUT I do stand by what I said, it just irks me to see people who think like Jokerman and whatever the hell the other dudes name is.

Technically, the reporter could even be charged with obstruction of justice and inciting a riot. It would be dismissed, no doubt, but it’s not a stretch.
\
Yeah, that is most definitaly some sick twisting of the law thier, whoever even would dare bring that up... eugh.

I can't even respond.

Yall make me sick.

Peace
 
#27
^Don't be so pessimistic towards the scenario. In situations like these you have to be realistic while looking at the bigger picture; the realistic possiblity, which Jokerman thoroughly explained.
 
#28
^Don't tell me how to formulate my opinions. Thanks.

How is that realistic? The reporter could be charged with obstruction of justice? Inciting a riot? Fuck that shit.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#29
^If you get too close or distract the police when they are trying to make an arrest, you can be charged with obstruction. If, for instance, you were to yell "police brutality" or "racism" while they were making an arrest, that would get you a charge of inciting a riot. Keep in mind, the police don't make the laws, they just break them.

Just like your first post in this thread could have gotten you charged with inciting a riot on this board. And your post where you rant against me was a clear case of obstructing the advancement of civilized discourse. The moderators could have tased (tazed) u to death, instead of punching you a few times in the head.

One time I did something with my car that was supposed to be an automatic trip to jail. When the angry officer came to my car window, I said, "Everything was my fault, officer. I'm to blame. Take me to jail." Officer's mouth fell open. Flabbergasted to the point that I didn't even get a warning ticket. Now that's the way to behave with the police. Admit your mistakes and cooperate and don't be surprised if they cut you a break.

On the news tonight this old guy says he's not blaming the officers. He doesn't think it was racially motivated. He says he was not drunk, but the cops probably thought he was a bum because of the way he was dressed and the area he was in and his behavior. Wow. That's either very forgiving of him, or he knows he was in the wrong somehow and hopes it all goes away. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This old man might not have been drunk and he might not have been doing anything wrong. But that doesn't give him the right to resist arrest, once the police decide that's what they are going to do. Some people don't seem to understand that. Guilty or not-guilty, resist arrest = violent force directed at you. Very simple formula to keep in mind. You want to complain, wait till you're in handcuffs. What do people think, that if they make it hard for the officers to put cuffs on them, the cops will give up and hand them a card with their number on it: "When you're ready to be arrested, sir, call us at this number?"
 

dee

New Member
#30
it'z makin me sick juss readin ur guys's defense of these cops...from wut i saw an neone from an objective point of view saw wuz an old man being escorted outside of a bar...an if u go slow mo u can see him smiling rite before the horse gets in the way...an all of a sudden he'z gettin his head punched from the back smashing it into a brick wall..even a forearm to the back of the head pressing it against the wall would be better than wut they did...those fucking pigs r the reason some people refer to cops as pigs...they're more reprehensible than the criminals they're sposed to be arresting...an if them going through the lass 3 weeks there is an excuse for that than it is more than an excuse to get drunk...witnesses have testified that he didn't resist an i've heard claims that he hasn't drank in 25 years...regardless anyone who'z sayin "he resisted thas wut he deserves" deserves that beating an more for resisting any hint of humanity an self-restraint...i hope those fucking wastes of skin get sent to jail an get repeatedly sodomized by some dudes they have sent to jail at one point or another...yea the lass part wuz a lil excessive but fuck em...paece
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
#33
The man is up against a wall with one officer holding one arm behind his back and he gets hit in the back of the head and its justified because he is "resisting arrest." Watch the video, he was standing their, not throwing any punches, not pushing cops away, standing their and he gets hit. Then with 4 men on top of him he gets hit again, but its ok, he is laying on the ground showing no signs of violence but hit him cus he is "resisting arrest." There is no way that you can tell me that those punches were ok. The man had his hands down, with one is one cops hands, and was up againts a wall. The man is 64, drunk or not they should be able to subdue him with hardly any force, especially when 4 cops are on him. People went through the Hurricane just like the cops, is that an excuse to break a law, cus they have so much stress on them, no. The cops were wrong and used excessive violence and it will be a sad day if they face no charges. If it was one cop, and the man was actually resisting and not standing their then I might be able to understand a punch, a push, a takedown. But 4 cops on a 64 year old man with his hands at his side, standing in one spot is not reason enough to throw any type of punch, to the head, back, leg whatever.

"On the news tonight this old guy says he's not blaming the officers. He doesn't think it was racially motivated. He says he was not drunk, but the cops probably thought he was a bum because of the way he was dressed and the area he was in and his behavior. Wow. That's either very forgiving of him, or he knows he was in the wrong somehow and hopes it all goes away. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt."

So if the cop that attacked the AP Producer acted forgiving would you say he knew that him and the other offciers were in the wrong and gave him the benefit of the doubt?
 
#34
I said, "Everything was my fault, officer. I'm to blame. Take me to jail." Officer's mouth fell open. Flabbergasted to the point that I didn't even get a warning ticket. Now that's the way to behave with the police. Admit your mistakes and cooperate and don't be surprised if they cut you a break.
Im a man before all that pussy shit though.
 
#35
^^Standing up to an officer for speeding or anything else that deserves a ticket doesn't make you a man. A man takes responsiblity for his actions.
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#38
One question for Jokerman, do you believe that the police's action were necessary in this situation, from what you saw in the clip?
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#39
Jurhum said:
One question for Jokerman, do you believe that the police's action were necessary in this situation, from what you saw in the clip?
No. TOTALLY uncalled for. Fucking skull fractures for some public intoxication? That's some bullshit.


Did u read my posts? I think your question is more than answered in them.

What I see is:

1. A video of a scene in progress starts with the guy against a wall and cops pulling his arms behind him to cuff him. Then the camera view is obscured by a horse.

2. When the horse moves away, I see one cop throw several punches at the guy while they are struggling with him against the wall. This certainly doesn't stop the old guy from struggling. I can only see two cops at that point. I think it's reasonable to assume that the guy resisted being handcuffed. Of course, cop-haters would think it's reasonable to assume he was cooperating with the cuffing, but the cops just felt like hitting him anyway, with a news crew filming and federal agents and bystanders watching, because...well, because he was black and they are racists, or some such thing.

Anyway, if they wanted to hit him for whatever racist, power-mad reason, I think they would have waited till he cooperatingly let them hand-cuff him first.

3. I see a healthy-looking 64 year old. He's certainly not weak and frail and is definitely struggling for all he is worth with the four officers once they have him on the ground.

4. When the four cops have him on the ground, it looks like they are trying to position him to apply handcuffs, but the frail and weak old man is wrestling with them to prevent that. He is moderately successful. I don't see anyone strike him while on the ground.

Looks pretty much like what happens in our bar area downtown multiple times on a weekend.

So, yes, I believe the police's actions were necessary given the situation as it unfolded, and yet at the same time, it shouldn't have been necessary. One or two officers should have been able to handle him. Either he was very strong, they were pretty weak, or both. In that case, Mace should have been used.

As far as the officer accosting the AP reporter, I've already stated that I believe he crossed a line that should not have been crossed. Yet I understand his actions and sympathize. Keep in mind, this reporter was not holding the camera. The cop didn't get mad at him for filming this. He got mad at him because of something he was saying, which we don't know. And the cop responded by pushing him and saying, "I've been here for six weeks trying to keep...alive!"
 
#40
^^Standing up to an officer for speeding or anything else that deserves a ticket doesn't make you a man. A man takes responsiblity for his actions.
No shit, I would take responsibility. But not come off all like "Oh yeah, im so so sorry." I'm not a bitch. I take resposibility for my actions. If you read my earlier posts, I have taking responsibility for myself, when I apoligized for my over-the-top post. But what I'm saying is that to act so apoligetic, and sit and try and weasle my way out of a situation is bullshit.
 

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