never forget

[dilla]

He's a great character. But it just becomes one more character that's just like the rest on TV, portrayed in a bad light.

 

[S O F I]

As funny as he is, I still can't help but feel the show still portrays all dads as retarded, castrated dopes. It's a real issue in most TV shows today. And I hate it.

You hate it. You find it a real issue. I find that notion funny. But interesting, too. You're not a father nor are you white. What's the problem?

I feel that, since white men have benefited from their gender and color since...time immemorial... that portraying them as spineless dopes in a comedy show isn't all that bad after all.

and I like Modern Family too. It's the only show I regularly follow this particular TV season aside from The Walking Dead and Eastbound & Down.

 

[dilla]

Using your logic, I'm not Rwandan nor have I ever been involved in genocide, therefore I should not have a problem with the Rwandan Genocide. Cool. I don't have a cunt, nor will I pop kid out of one, therefore I shouldn't have a problem with Planned Parenthood being under scrutiny by the government and under constant threat of being shut down.

This wasn't even about being "white." Because there are no other shows on US TV with non-White fathers. Flip the channel once in a while. There are more shows than staged repo shows on TruTV.

 

[S O F I]

I just want to know what in particular makes it an issue for you since I couldn't understand. With Rwandan genocide and Planned Parenthood, people are getting hurt by decisions being made. Who is getting hurt by white fathers portrayed as dopes in a comedy show? It's such an odd thing to get mad about lol.

There's House of Lies on SHO right now with Don Cheadle (of Hotel Rwanda fame, coincidentally) playing a father of a young, cross-dressing half black, half white kid who is unsure of his/her gender.

 

[Pittsey]

There's House of Lies on SHO right now with Don Cheadle (of Hotel Rwanda fame, coincidentally) playing a father of a young, cross-dressing half black, half white kid who is unsure of his/her gender.

Shit show. But there are a lot of titties in it. So I watch.

Also... Phil isn't a dope. Why are people saying this? I have to defend him. He is cool as fuck.

 

[dilla]

I just want to know what in particular makes it an issue for you since I couldn't understand. With Rwandan genocide and Planned Parenthood, people are getting hurt by decisions being made. Who is getting hurt by white fathers portrayed as dopes in a comedy show? It's such an odd thing to get mad about lol.

There's House of Lies on SHO right now with Don Cheadle (of Hotel Rwanda fame, coincidentally) playing a father of a young, cross-dressing half black, half white kid who is unsure of his/her gender.

If you're ignorant to the influence entertainment has on shaping society then I can't help you there. The same way those toddler pageants hurt little girls, the same way many black movies condone the black youth to behave like coons and endorse violence, is the same way these shows give the image that it's ok to be a dipshit and get run over by your partner. If it isn't that it gives the wrong message to everyone, not just impressionable young men, it's that it's unoriginal, played out, beaten to death, etc. Every sitcom has it.

The Phil character is not the worst offender. It's much more subtle. But there's still traces of that characteristic dopiness that plagues TV today.

 

[Da_Funk]

If you're ignorant to the influence entertainment has on shaping society then I can't help you there. The same way those toddler pageants hurt little girls, the same way many black movies condone the black youth to behave like coons and endorse violence, is the same way these shows give the image that it's ok to be a dipshit and get run over by your partner. If it isn't that it gives the wrong message to everyone, not just impressionable young men, it's that it's unoriginal, played out, beaten to death, etc. Every sitcom has it.

The Phil character is not the worst offender. It's much more subtle. But there's still traces of that characteristic dopiness that plagues TV today.

Remember about a week ago when you said you weren't giving a fuck? What happened to that guy. No one likes a crusader unless that person is caped.

 

[dilla]

Remember about a week ago when you said you weren't giving a fuck? What happened to that guy. No one likes a crusader unless that person is caped.

Yeah, that's true. At the end of the day, everyone is an individual and chooses how to act. I see many people that have conversations littered with popular references. Lines from movies, TV, songs. It seems without those things, they would have nothing to talk about. So I get the impression most of my peers are heavily influenced by that shit. More than I am. I like to think the way I am can not be majorly attributed to being molded by shit like this.

And while I do watch and enjoy the show, it was this week in particular where they showed not only Phil, but Manny and Luke too, being afraid of their moms and sisters because they were on their period. Really? I'm not one for women's rights, men's rights, nigger rights, but this struck a chord with me. I try to treat everyone the same, regardless of their menstrual cycle, hell even their gender or race. And here's this show telling me to watch myself around someone because she's on her period.

Maybe I took it too seriously. Because it was just this episode this week that I walked away feeling the way I did.

 

[S O F I]

If you're ignorant to the influence entertainment has on shaping society then I can't help you there. The same way those toddler pageants hurt little girls, the same way many black movies condone the black youth to behave like coons and endorse violence, is the same way these shows give the image that it's ok to be a dipshit and get run over by your partner. If it isn't that it gives the wrong message to everyone, not just impressionable young men, it's that it's unoriginal, played out, beaten to death, etc. Every sitcom has it.

The Phil character is not the worst offender. It's much more subtle. But there's still traces of that characteristic dopiness that plagues TV today.

Does entertainment shape society or does society shape entertainment? I'd say the latter. There were toddler pageants way before toddler pageants reality tv shows. There was violence and poverty in the black community way before Boyz N The Hood. There were hipsters living in New York way before MTV premiered its I Just Want My Pants Back tv show. There's a bunch of examples.

Also, Phil isn't getting run over by his partner. It's a relatively balanced power dynamic in the show. I think you just miss the old shows (and days) where the father ruled with an iron fist and the mother kept her mouth shut.

Now, what do you really hate about Phil's character? LOL

 

[masta247]

Does entertainment shape society or does society shape entertainment?

Both ways. Video game geeks wouldn't exist if it wasn't for video games. Most kids wouldn't be who they are if it wasn't for popular music or movies.

Also entertainment makes little things blown out of proportion. In late 90s 1/3 of all teenagers probably thought that they were west coast gangsters. No matter where they used to live. Kids played cops and robbers because of popular entertainment, not because of real world cops' and robbers' influence. On another hand TV shows about cops and robbers had been influenced by real world cops and criminals. Works both ways.

 

[dilla]

Does entertainment shape society or does society shape entertainment? I'd say the latter. There were toddler pageants way before toddler pageants reality tv shows. There was violence and poverty in the black community way before Boyz N The Hood. There were hipsters living in New York way before MTV premiered its I Just Want My Pants Back tv show. There's a bunch of examples.

Also, Phil isn't getting run over by his partner. It's a relatively balanced power dynamic in the show. I think you just miss the old shows (and days) where the father ruled with an iron fist and the mother kept her mouth shut.

Now, what do you really hate about Phil's character? LOL

If that's what I was "truly" missing, then I would be a hypocrite. How about Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince? Compare that to Phil from Modern Family and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Surely entertainment didn't create war and crime, but some shows seem to encourage it. There's a difference between showing what happens and encouraging what happens. How many kids become infatuated with guns because they listen to rap music? I know I was guilty of that prior to high school with my 50 Cent album on repeat. The thing is, I still see it today amongst my peers. Hell, I have a pretty good look at the generation behind us because my sister is a part of that generation. When she shows or tells me what people post on their Facebook statuses, it's clear what's going on with entertainment today.

 

[S O F I]

Listen, if Phil's character is encouraging anything, it's that a marriage is a two way street where compromises have to be made. Also, it encourages fathers to not just police their kids, but to motivate them to express themselves and follow their dreams and hobbies. He touts himself as a "the cool dad" because in today's society, it isn't enough (and never was) for a father to just police the kids and have the kids afraid of the father. Sure, a father must be strict at times, but never so that the kids are terrified of him. As far as Phil, look how Carlton turned out lol. Also, Uncle Phil's role was different. His job wasn't to make us laugh. That was Will's and Jazzy Jeff's job. In the case of Modern Family, Phil is depended on to provide the laughs. They all provide the laughs, but he's the best at it and that's why most people like him the most. If you're making the argument that entertainment encourages and condones bad behavior, then you have no argument with how Phil's character is portrayed. He's not really a dope, like Pittsey says, he's the corny tries-to-be-cool dad that comically fails to be the cool dad. We all had friends whose dads were kinda like that. I never thought it was a bad thing and the kids turned out alright.

As far as rap music encouraging ___________ , I just don't buy into it. You were infatuated with guns, so why didn't you buy a gun and shoot someone? Oh, perhaps, I don't know, good parenting? A father figure at home? It couldn't be, right?...yeah.

I see 18 year olds nowadays who I remember being 5-6 years old in my neighborhood. They all smoke weed and love Wiz Khalifa lol. Sure, he was an influence, yeah, but even without Wiz, these kids would have been smoking weed and drinking. Teenagers smoked weed and drank long before rap music (or jazz or rock n roll) told them to. So that argument is just lame as fuck.

 

[dilla]

Listen, if Phil's character is encouraging anything, it's that a marriage is a two way street where compromises have to be made. Also, it encourages fathers to not just police their kids, but to motivate them to express themselves and follow their dreams and hobbies. He touts himself as a "the cool dad" because in today's society, it isn't enough (and never was) for a father to just police the kids and have the kids afraid of the father. Sure, a father must be strict at times, but never so that the kids are terrified of him. As far as Phil, look how Carlton turned out lol. Also, Uncle Phil's role was different. His job wasn't to make us laugh. That was Will's and Jazzy Jeff's job. In the case of Modern Family, Phil is depended on to provide the laughs. They all provide the laughs, but he's the best at it and that's why most people like him the most. If you're making the argument that entertainment encourages and condones bad behavior, then you have no argument with how Phil's character is portrayed. He's not really a dope, like Pittsey says, he's the corny tries-to-be-cool dad that comically fails to be the cool dad. We all had friends whose dads were kinda like that. I never thought it was a bad thing and the kids turned out alright.

As far as rap music encouraging ___________ , I just don't buy into it. You were infatuated with guns, so why didn't you buy a gun and shoot someone? Oh, perhaps, I don't know, good parenting? A father figure at home? It couldn't be, right?...yeah.

I see 18 year olds nowadays who I remember being 5-6 years old in my neighborhood. They all smoke weed and love Wiz Khalifa lol. Sure, he was an influence, yeah, but even without Wiz, these kids would have been smoking weed and drinking. Teenagers smoked weed and drank long before rap music (or jazz or rock n roll) told them to. So that argument is just lame as fuck.

I didn't buy a gun at 13 because the law forbade me to. There was never a time, before you were 18, where you didn't wish you had a gun? You managed to take in all of Pac's lyrics and just filter out the part about guns? It's normal for kids to want to emulate them, but there has to be something that keeps them in line and not actually acting upon their intentions.

Let's shift the focus from the media encouraging "bad" things. Does it encourage "good" things? Let these shows promote drugs and violence. Are there any that promote communication, compassion, non-violence? I'm not asking for a Jesus Loves Everyone kinda show. But how about comedy that doesn't trivialize important issues.

 

[dilla]

And I don't hate Phil's character. I said it before. He's not as bad as most other father figures in TV shows. He wasn't until this particular episode. This was the first time I really felt it had gone beyond the show's normal boundaries. Otherwise, I said he was relatively good in his role.

Explain what was normal or good about the father characters in these shows:

The father in Still Standing
Ray in EL Raymond
King of Queens
Peter Griffin and Cleveland Brown

 

[Da_Funk]

I didn't buy a gun at 13 because the law forbade me to. There was never a time, before you were 18, where you didn't wish you had a gun? You managed to take in all of Pac's lyrics and just filter out the part about guns? It's normal for kids to want to emulate them, but there has to be something that keeps them in line and not actually acting upon their intentions.

You're reaching man. I listened to nothing but rap from 13-16 and I never once wanted to own a gun. Did I think guns were cool? Yup I did, but I still do and as a matter of fact I'm getting a fire arms license soon and will be buying (hopefully) a rifle or two to shoot at a range. It has nothing to do with music or cultural influences, it's just something I like to do.

I never sold drugs either, because back then I thought it was wrong, and I still do today. I was able to differentiate between right and wrong at a young age because of good parenting, regardless of what the media put out there. And even at 13 I was able to understand that people like Tupac, Bone Thugs, Jayz etc were never bragging about selling drugs; they were talking about selling them to get by because circumstance left no other choice (or few choices) in order for them to prosper.

Anyways, if the reason you never bought a gun was only because the law forbids it and no other reason was involved I'd say you have some thinking to do.

 

[dilla]

You're reaching man. I listened to nothing but rap from 13-16 and I never once wanted to own a gun. Did I think guns were cool? Yup I did, but I still do and as a matter of fact I'm getting a fire arms license soon and will be buying (hopefully) a rifle or two to shoot at a range. It has nothing to do with music or cultural influences, it's just something I like to do.

I never sold drugs either, because back then I thought it was wrong, and I still do today. I was able to differentiate between right and wrong at a young age because of good parenting, regardless of what the media put out there. And even at 13 I was able to understand that people like Tupac, Bone Thugs, Jayz etc were never bragging about selling drugs; they were talking about selling them to get by because circumstance left no other choice (or few choices) in order for them to prosper.

Anyways, if the reason you never bought a gun was only because the law forbids it and no other reason was involved I'd say you have some thinking to do.

During my time in college I shot many guns. Not just the hillbilly-favorite shotgun but plenty of handguns. I think there was a part of me, even at 18-21 years old that had that desire to shoot a gun that dated back to my pre-teen days. I didn't think killing people was cool. But I thought shooting one would be an experience to remember. After shooting the guns on multiple occasions, it lost its charm. I am at peace with the desire to shoot a gun.

I too will get my license at some point to protect myself, and family if it comes to it, and nothing else. I don't like shooting animals. I never have, actually. And I don't like shooting people, but I feel that might change if there's a person posing a threat.

 

[Pittsey]

In late 90s 1/3 of all teenagers probably thought that they were west coast gangsters. No matter where they used to live.

Not me. I think if people let popular entertainment dictate the way they dress or behave, they are very sad individuals. No matter the age.

 

[SiGh]

Happy birthday fellas, I love you. :>

 

[S O F I]

I didn't buy a gun at 13 because the law forbade me to. There was never a time, before you were 18, where you didn't wish you had a gun? You managed to take in all of Pac's lyrics and just filter out the part about guns? It's normal for kids to want to emulate them, but there has to be something that keeps them in line and not actually acting upon their intentions.

There's a difference between wanting to own a gun and having the desire to shoot someone. Tupac's lyrics did not encourage me to shoot a person. They probably encouraged me to own a gun for self protection. If you're having feelings that shooting someone is something to remember lol, man, I don't even know.

Let's shift the focus from the media encouraging "bad" things. Does it encourage "good" things? Let these shows promote drugs and violence. Are there any that promote communication, compassion, non-violence? I'm not asking for a Jesus Loves Everyone kinda show. But how about comedy that doesn't trivialize important issues.

almost every show promotes communication, compassion, and non-violence in a way. from the wire to breaking bad to modern family. i'm sure you can see that. if you have a show with gun violence where people get killed and mothers cry, that's promoting the opposite of that to me.

And I don't hate Phil's character. I said it before. He's not as bad as most other father figures in TV shows. He wasn't until this particular episode. This was the first time I really felt it had gone beyond the show's normal boundaries. Otherwise, I said he was relatively good in his role.

Explain what was normal or good about the father characters in these shows:

The father in Still Standing
Ray in EL Raymond
King of Queens
Peter Griffin and Cleveland Brown

I never saw any of those shows.

 

[SiGh]

You never saw Family Guy? Everybody loves Raymond or King of Queens? Were you born after 2000?