Their reasons weren't reasons. I'll admit that starting the war in Afghanistan was a product of political biases, but the political climate in the U.S. after 9/11 played a significant role. People backed the war at home. They dismissed history in favor of going after the Taliban. And then for a while it seemed like we won. Wow! Not even the graveyard of empires can stop us! Obviously it didn't turn out to be that simple.
Obama Watch
- Thread starter S O F I
- Start date
So, it's soon going to be 2 years since Obama took office. I'm curious to know what everyone (mostly Americans) think about his time spent in power.
Do you still think he's a glimmer of hope? Just another political face, big talk, no action? I know it's a bit early, but would you vote him back into power with what you've seen from him at the moment?
Do you still think he's a glimmer of hope? Just another political face, big talk, no action? I know it's a bit early, but would you vote him back into power with what you've seen from him at the moment?
I would vote him back into power because realistically, he's still the best chance. The "big talk, no action" part has to be understood within context. He's functioning in a system with checks and balances. It's hard for him to get shit passed due to bipartisanship. In addition, most likely, he sacrificed a lot of the favors he had in Congress to have health reform passed. I was really glad to see him defend the Cordoba House plans but then saddened when he pulled a 180 and said that while he respects the right to build it, he doesn't see the wisdom in doing it.
When did he say that? He defended the legal right of it in his speech, then the next day he said to a reporter that he was "not commenting on the wisdom" of the project, just the broader principle that the government should treat "everyone equal, regardless" of religion. And that's all he said about it, unless I missed something today. Link please. That would really be bad and inconsistent if he did that after what he said. He seemed to be smartly staying out of it and just giving the facts.
Apologies. I read it somewhere and it might have been taken out of context or I read it wrong. So, yeah, instead of saying he doesn't see the wisdom, he said he wouldn't comment on the wisdom, as Flip quoted. To me, that's saying the same thing. But for the sake of the public eye, that's a very distinct difference.
Anyway, Obama was in Seattle yesterday raising money for Murray. Here's a funny story. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012647005_sonicbooms18m.html
Anyway, Obama was in Seattle yesterday raising money for Murray. Here's a funny story. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012647005_sonicbooms18m.html
/\ It's not like it's ON fuckin Ground Zero, shit is two blocks away. Plus, there was one there before that got damaged on 9/11.
PLUS.....by causing a fuss about it, it's encouraging more hostility...the old divide and conquer. That's playing into the hands of the extremists.
I personally don't see what the big deal is. Once again, the media takes a snippet of the information and presents it as a fact, completely out of context, to stir up the emotions of the people. The whole situation has been reduced to "They're building a mosque at ground zero" to the majority of people, which firstly isn't accurate, and secondly, it's a lot more complex than that.
I personally hate religion and would prefer nobody to ever build a temple, church or mosque anywhere ever again, but this whole "uproar" just seems ridiculous to me.
PLUS.....by causing a fuss about it, it's encouraging more hostility...the old divide and conquer. That's playing into the hands of the extremists.
I personally don't see what the big deal is. Once again, the media takes a snippet of the information and presents it as a fact, completely out of context, to stir up the emotions of the people. The whole situation has been reduced to "They're building a mosque at ground zero" to the majority of people, which firstly isn't accurate, and secondly, it's a lot more complex than that.
I personally hate religion and would prefer nobody to ever build a temple, church or mosque anywhere ever again, but this whole "uproar" just seems ridiculous to me.
It's because for him to budge now would set a dangerous precedent. He would be letting bigotry win. I think he's made a bold and principled stand against cowed Democrats and faith-baiting Republicans in pushing this project forward. This imam is no terrorist sympathizer; both the Bush and Obama State Departments have sent him on speaking tours to highlight the moderate side of Islam. He's been a beacon of tolerance in the wasteland of political extremism propagated by NewsCorp, et al.
He also spoke at the funeral of Daniel Pearl.
So his moderate credentials are there. They're extensive. There is nothing sinister about this guy's motives. You can cite "reports" about shadow-funding, closet-extremism, or simple "they can, but should they?" logic. The facts don't play into any of it. It's a false controversy about the Burlington Coat Factory. Doesn't it matter that it isn't really a mosque and that it isn't at ground zero?
He also spoke at the funeral of Daniel Pearl.
So his moderate credentials are there. They're extensive. There is nothing sinister about this guy's motives. You can cite "reports" about shadow-funding, closet-extremism, or simple "they can, but should they?" logic. The facts don't play into any of it. It's a false controversy about the Burlington Coat Factory. Doesn't it matter that it isn't really a mosque and that it isn't at ground zero?
And in the case of Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, it was decided that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion".
That being said... people can be angry and have their own personal opinions all they want.. but the government (federal, state or local) has no right interfering with this issue and outside of lack of funding or proper permits... there is no legal reason why this mosque shouldn't be built.
Do I agree with it? Nah. But that's only because I can't understand why in 2010 we are building any more religious buildings to begin with.. especially in the Western world. I'd enjoy seeing them all as nothing more than museums that children dare each other to visit and then later enjoy whispering about their evil-doings as ghost stories on dark nights... but that's just me.
That being said... people can be angry and have their own personal opinions all they want.. but the government (federal, state or local) has no right interfering with this issue and outside of lack of funding or proper permits... there is no legal reason why this mosque shouldn't be built.
Do I agree with it? Nah. But that's only because I can't understand why in 2010 we are building any more religious buildings to begin with.. especially in the Western world. I'd enjoy seeing them all as nothing more than museums that children dare each other to visit and then later enjoy whispering about their evil-doings as ghost stories on dark nights... but that's just me.
Guantanimo Bay is in Cuba--a country that we allegedly have no ties with...Kind of ironic that the US would be holding its alleged most hated rivals on the land of a hated rival...Utter hypocrisy. The Obama Administration has no choice but to close Guantanamo, return the prisonsers to the lands they were captured, and carry out God's justice in the PROPER function
Americans are strung out on shock and awe. Thats all this rah rah over protesting this Mosque being built in nyc is. There is no need to protest the building of a religious center that abides by to all codes and standards as any other building. Islam did not attack the united states on sept 11, extremeists did. Why do you people look at situations such as this as an OBSTRUCTION, and not an OPPORTUNITY to communicate with another culture and exchange values, ideas, etc.
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