Philosophy

[Chronic]

I saw a documentary that talked a little bit about our perceptions and the abilities of our brains. When we're babies we see the world in its purest form. As we get older and we learn thing and get shaped by experiences, we start seeing things in black and white. Society shapes us more than we give it (dis)credit for. You might remember that in another thread I mentioned an "intellectual enlightenment", when you start seeing and most importantly trying to see things for what they really are. Philosophy can be a great means to reach that point because it usually discusses the theoritical and points out new ways of thinking and looking at things. Personally I don't have a huge interest in philosophy (right now) so it usually just serves me in finding quotes that perfectly sum up what I was already thinking.

The western world is pretty bland and I feel that western philosphy is usually just people who don't have their heads up their ass and are able to articulate their view of the world. Eastern philosophy is usually very interesting to read because it's usually a very different point of view than 'ours'. But I don't think you should look at the stuff like scriptures. Taking in information at the earliest stage in life deforms our reality, taking in information at later stages tries to reshape it a bit. So philosophy at this point is great to fill your mind with as many (conflicting) arguments as possible so you have a better view of the world. But it's only a means to an end. There is no single truth in life so you won't find the truth in philosphy. You take all the information you have and you try to look at things as objectively as possible and then you come to a conclusion.

Everyone should be a philosopher in the sense that you utilize this amazing brain we've been given and not simply be an animal with the most complex system of instinct around. But a philospher as in Plato are only useful when they spark peoples' minds... so they're very useful as long as people continue to be idiots. Philosophy should be the basis of any revolution.
It's great stuff to discuss when you're sitting back but philosophy and reality often don't mix.

 

[Euphanasia]

Which begs the question.. how do you really know the conclusions you reach are the truth?

lol well that's just it, you don't know and you're never going to know. you have to accept that one fact and then decide which conclusions are most likely to be the truth and go by those.

 

[Bender]

I have studied philosophy, I also graduated from a humanistic class. It changed my mind of thinking as in most cases philosophy only concludes what's already known.
Also philosophy as a subject of education tends to put itself above other subjects like maths, chemistry, biology and such which are in my opinion much, much more valuable and contributing to our world.
I find philosophy as pointless thinking about what is already known and trying to name something that has already happened.

That's of course just my opinion - I'm a person who abandoned humanistic education because I found out that it brings nothing new and it just creates fake illusion of higher knowledge. Humanistic education is easy and convenient. You can interpret everything however you want and it will be correct in philosophy. It doesn't require a clever brain.
I decided to pursue science instead.

I hope I mean the same philosophy (as a whole in context of education) you are talking about.

Philosophy has changed my perspectives on a lot of my pre-assumptions. Assumptions which I never got the chance to integrate essentially 'how to think' into what I was thinking about. Before I came to those conclusions.

I agree, we come across and utilise many other subjects in day to day life. I never had the benefit of an academic study of philosophy in my education. I wasn't even taught proper ethics. I was taught right from wrong, that's what it was referred to as. I never even knew what the word ethics meant until I picked up a book myself. That is the main thing I dislike about my education, that I wasn't introduced to philosophy at an earlier age. Maybe my mind wasn't developed enough, maybe there wasn't the teachers to teach such a subject. Or ... what I really think is, science is the doctrine of the government. That's why I had 3 different classes of science in a week at high school. Some of them was even double periods. Not one class of Philosophy. So my conclusion there is that they have interests in teaching me what to think, about certain subjects, but not how to think. Philosophy has no boundaries in how to think about things, philosophy is exactly that process.

I like Humanism for its ethical and religious properties. More morality. Without which we would have no foundation for society.

I just wish there was some kind of professional philosophy, a super philosophy, something that transcends religion, science, ethics, morals, and all notions of good or bad. Which is why I am influenced by Taoism because it deals with that which cannot be named. That which cannot be named cannot be contradicted. For every word seems to have some kind of antonym. Words though don't really exist, they are just a part of a system of language. Something to channel, condition, and systematize cognition.

This is just from my own foundation of thinking that I am laying out, from what I have picked up from many hours just sat reading countless books. It doesn't amount to anything for me. I'm not trying to attain something from a philosophy. I've found that philosophy is more useful to hack away at the un-essentials of what I think I know, leaving me better off with the bare necessities of knowledge.

I like what you're sayin Yeshua and yes I'm intersted in all that stuff as well.

I am intersted in anything anyones got to say on philosophy here. Whatever viewpoint you take, or have, don't be afraid to open up. maybe we can all learn something.

I understand some peoples viewpoints that philosophy may be 'boring' in a sense that it is asking questions about what is already known.

What is good, is discovering different viewpoints on what is already known. Right now I am researching the works of an artist called Paul Klee, who has mentioned the importance of using philosophy in art.

$5 he said it because of strawberry fields forever.

Good song! Weren't the Beatles Hippies? John Lennon was a philosophical minded person, he was a genius.

I question things all the time. Literally, every single day. I feel that we as human beings have certain tools that we can use to reach the most probable conclusions about those things that we cannot know. If you use your senses, your mind, your education, your experiences, et cetera you will find that you can answer a lot of questions about shit you really don't know.

Such as is the essence of using your own mind. Like I've said, there's so many people out there preaching what to think, but not how to think.

Which begs the question.. how do you really know the conclusions you reach are the truth?

I state that wisdom does not come to conclusions.

 

[Preach]

^^
No government has the funds to educate every citizen to the extent they truly need. In school you are taught the minimum of what you need to know, it's information that you can use. Learning how to think is left to be up to one self. I like it that way, if they taught you how to think they could implement their hidden agendas in that as well as in just teaching you information that they want you to know.

 

[Jokerman]

Learning how to think is left to be up to one self. I like it that way, if they taught you how to think they could implement their hidden agendas in that as well as in just teaching you information that they want you to know.

But there are often hidden agendas in the information that they want you to know. If they teach you how to think you'll be more able to see those hidden agendas. Teaching you how to think is not teaching you how to look at things in a certain way. It's teaching you how to think critically. Question everything. This is what they are not doing.

 

[masta247]

in public schools they usually teach a lot of stupid things and I mean propaganda.
I finished a public elementary school and a private high school and I see a big difference in the way they teach stuff.

If they can lie about history it's even easier to tell kids how they should think.

Also nobody needs philosophy to think on his own and to know how he should see things. It's a must for every intelligent human being to analize information.

 

[Bachaveli]

The western world is pretty bland and I feel that western philosphy is usually just people who don't have their heads up their ass and are able to articulate their view of the world. Eastern philosophy is usually very interesting to read because it's usually a very different point of view than 'ours'.

People in western hemisphere usually are too busy with McDolands, shopping at Wallmart, listening to ipod, texting with one hand and reading book upside down with the other hand and of course eating potato chips.

I don't know how this will fit here but to give you an idea how formal and what I'm talking about is this. I was in court the other day for some shit and I was up there to face the judge. Right before my time came on to see the judge, the judge took a break. She pulled out a bag of chips and started eating middle of the court session. All these people waiting to see her and shit, she grabbed a bag of chips. What I want to say with this is people here have no manners.

One thing that I regret coming to the states from Europe is embroiling myself with that western philosophy like you described it above. I regret missing out or not obtaining the proper education. Here in public schools they don't teach you shit basically.

Taking in information at the earliest stage in life deforms our reality, taking in information at later stages tries to reshape it a bit.

I don't know if this is the same thing what you're saying by taking in information at the early stage is bad. But I noticed here in US parents tend to treat their little 4-5 year old children as if they are adults. Where I come from we let the children have their time while they are still children and we try not to treat them as adults. But here I see all the time parents treat children like grown people. In a way it's good because they get the information at the early stage of their lives and they'll might be more advanced or smart than those still playing with toys. But the downside is you're taking away their space and time to be children.

 

[Preach]

Philosophy can be dangerous too.

When two boxers stand face to face to try and discourage each other, both boxers feel confident that they will beat the other boxer. This confidence does not come from reasoning and philosophical thinking, but from neglecting all that and having faith in one's own conclusions and ideas, regardless of what the actual case may or may not be. Not everything is supposed to be "analyzed" with philosophic methods. You can enlighten yourself and find new ways to look at things through studying philosophy, and/or you can destroy the natural "mystery" that surrounds certain fascets of modern day human life, and ruin it. It's a trend these days to be open-minded. In fact, open-mindedness is considered a favorable trait by most people. So much that I'm thinking some people are too open-minded for their own good. What's that saying, too much of a good thing. Not EVERYTHING is okay, even though if you look at it from the right perspective it's completely understandable and unavoidable. If you're not careful, philosophy can rob you of your intuition and deciciveness, which in turn can turn you into an even crappier human being than before you went on a crusade to be one of the "good human beings". You might end up unable to make important decicions that people who rely on you need you to make, because you can't differentiate the various outcomes of a given decision you have to make from each other when you look at all your options from their respective ideal perspectives.

I like to think of myself as a mixture. Best of both worlds? Honestly I'm not gonna talk about myself.

 

[Preach]

People in western hemisphere usually are too busy with McDolands, shopping at Wallmart, listening to ipod, texting with one hand and reading book upside down with the other hand and of course eating potato chips.

We get it, the western world is bad and all minority cultures rock. With all the humanity shit we have in the world today, most people know this without being served stupid generalisations of a culture-development that is inevitable. Go give 200 billion dollars to any development country in the world and watch them turn into the same Godless heathens as the rest of us over the next 50 years. Wealth breeds greed and that is as sure as the fact that a sperm and egg cell breed a human being. People that aren't wealthy will always pretend it isn't so. If you really think that's what people in the western hemisphere are doing, I welcome you to the challenge of explaining to me how the world moves forward and progresses. I know that none of the new cures or technological devices that are invented come from development countries, so they must be western. There's the odd super story of a poor indian cab driver who invendet the cure for a pandemic disease, but generally that doesn't happen unless there's a cosmic coincidence at works. No, the western world does more than shop at Walmart and eat potato chips. I just had a hamburger and french fries for example, that's not potato chips is it, stupid. I also got a non-diet coke, so how's that for being anti pop-trend. I'm even using both hands typing and I don't even read books. Fuck you, I hate people who go on western world rants as if everybody but inbred farmer fucks weren't already aware that the world is in a fucked up state. You are not Jesus.

Right before my time came on to see the judge, the judge took a break. She pulled out a bag of chips and started eating middle of the court session. All these people waiting to see her and shit, she grabbed a bag of chips. What I want to say with this is people here have no manners.

Yeah, I hate it when criminals can't catch a break. Who do these law-enforcers think that they are. Taking a lunch-break that is in her contract, that's preposterous. I say take away her lunch-hour for a week to punish her for having her lunch-hour (as specified by her contract)!!!!

What about your manners? You commit a crime, then you get pissed with the judge for not skipping her lunch hour to deal with you? How can you expect anyone you don't know to not eat when they are hungry, for you? Generally, expecting people to give you shit or make exceptions for you is considered having bad manners.

And even if you didn't commit a crime and were there for a legit reason, you still expected someone (whose job schedule you have no idea about) you don't know to skip their lunch break so you wouldn't have to wait. That's not exactly polite either. Just because she works there doesn't mean she owes you as a "customer" her undying devotion and priority. It just means she's a human being like you who does a certain predetermined job for a predetermined amount of money. What you expected of her maybe fell outside of that predetermination. Well, you're an asshole anyway for not considering it.

 

[Bender]

My viewpoint is such that, who leads our children's minds? Is it a particular political representative, is it a particular academic teaching, or is it an artist?

Philosophy is a subject that pervades all subjects. Its main application is through Art. For art is as diverse as philosophy is. Philosophy and art are the bread and butter for the toast of thinking. Art has endless forms, just like there are endless perspectives from which to approach things from.

 

[Bachaveli]

We get it, the western world is bad and all minority cultures rock. With all the humanity shit we have in the world today, most people know this without being served stupid generalisations of a culture-development that is inevitable. Go give 200 billion dollars to any development country in the world and watch them turn into the same Godless heathens as the rest of us over the next 50 years. Wealth breeds greed and that is as sure as the fact that a sperm and egg cell breed a human being. People that aren't wealthy will always pretend it isn't so. If you really think that's what people in the western hemisphere are doing, I welcome you to the challenge of explaining to me how the world moves forward and progresses. I know that none of the new cures or technological devices that are invented come from development countries, so they must be western. There's the odd super story of a poor indian cab driver who invendet the cure for a pandemic disease, but generally that doesn't happen unless there's a cosmic coincidence at works. No, the western world does more than shop at Walmart and eat potato chips. I just had a hamburger and french fries for example, that's not potato chips is it, stupid. I also got a non-diet coke, so how's that for being anti pop-trend. I'm even using both hands typing and I don't even read books. Fuck you, I hate people who go on western world rants as if everybody but inbred farmer fucks weren't already aware that the world is in a fucked up state. You are not Jesus.

Yeah, I hate it when criminals can't catch a break. Who do these law-enforcers think that they are. Taking a lunch-break that is in her contract, that's preposterous. I say take away her lunch-hour for a week to punish her for having her lunch-hour (as specified by her contract)!!!!

What about your manners? You commit a crime, then you get pissed with the judge for not skipping her lunch hour to deal with you? How can you expect anyone you don't know to not eat when they are hungry, for you? Generally, expecting people to give you shit or make exceptions for you is considered having bad manners.

And even if you didn't commit a crime and were there for a legit reason, you still expected someone (whose job schedule you have no idea about) you don't know to skip their lunch break so you wouldn't have to wait. That's not exactly polite either. Just because she works there doesn't mean she owes you as a "customer" her undying devotion and priority. It just means she's a human being like you who does a certain predetermined job for a predetermined amount of money. What you expected of her maybe fell outside of that predetermination. Well, you're an asshole anyway for not considering it.

Let me first say you're a scumbag. Plain and simple. You obviously saying all these things in a bit up tone voice because you're just feeding off others view on me. I can see through your post you're just mad because of some odd reasons perhaps cause I'm still here and as soon as you get a chance to jump on me, you do it and you just did it. But you're a scumbag for that reason.

Now you seem to agree with me about what I said about western hemisphere and you say all that is obvious and that I shouldn't even mention it. Yet, you defend it saying it isn't all that. Western hemisphere is more than just shopping at walmart exc...

You don't live in western hemisphere. You live in Norway or something. You have no clue what is like here. So fuck you fat boy. Not saying its all bad. But for you to come and defend and go contrary about what I said is just plain stupid. Maybe and it is not all about eating MacDonalds and exc... and it is not of course. But you get the point and it is nevertheless unbearable. The level of peoples education here is ludicrous. How many examples do I have to provide. People in mt high school, my classmates who couldn't read in English and these were American students not immigrants like me. Students in class sit and can't seem to elaborate on any topic because people don't read. People don't know shit. Can't even name the states of their own country. Not to mention people have very little knowledge of second world like Europe and Asia. Ignorance and lack of education is what best describes. Obviously I'm generalizing and it is not all like this.

The notion that wealth breeds greed is some what true. Look at other developed countries G.B., Australia and many other European countries. They have wealth. But that doesn't stop them from obtaining education.

As far as the court thing, again you're a scumbag because you have no clue and just speaking out of nowhere. I said the judge pulled out the bag of chips not during her lunch break but during the actual session. She had a lunch break trust me, after waiting for my lawyer 9 in the morning and didn't show up, she took the break in the afternoon and asked me to leave so she can have her lunch. Anyway, like I said she was middle of the session and listening to the prosecutor and she just said one moment I need to look over some things or something and grabbed the chips. I don't know where you coming from but this isn't formal in my book.

And this isn't just one example of lack of manners people posses here in western hemisphere. Yes I know I sound very anti-western hemisphere and right about now I'm sure you're asking why do you stay there than if you hate it so much? Well, I'm here to get my life together and all well.

Just because she works there doesn't mean she owes me undying devotion but at the same time she has job to do and her job isn't to eat cheaps middle of the session. She is there for a reason and therefore she needs to do her job and not mess around with peoples nerves.

 

[S O F I]

Just because she works there doesn't mean she owes me undying devotion but at the same time she has job to do and her job isn't to eat cheaps middle of the session. She is there for a reason and therefore she needs to do her job and not mess around with peoples nerves.

But, she's allowed a break. When the judge calls recess, it's recess and the judge can choose what to do with that recess time. Whether that be a bathroom break, lunch break, potato chips break, GTA IV break, blowjob in the private chambers, break, it's a break. To you it's lack of manners, to her it's a convenient way of satisfying hunger.

You're strongly holding on to your Georgian beliefs and way of life and when you encounter anything out of the norm that you were raised in, you label it something negative.

 

[Jokerman]

Didn't he just say the judge was not on a break when she started eating chips?

 

[Bachaveli]

But, she's allowed a break. When the judge calls recess, it's recess and the judge can choose what to do with that recess time. Whether that be a bathroom break, lunch break, potato chips break, GTA IV break, blowjob in the private chambers, break, it's a break. To you it's lack of manners, to her it's a convenient way of satisfying hunger.

You're strongly holding on to your Georgian beliefs and way of life and when you encounter anything out of the norm that you were raised in, you label it something negative.

Call me a conservative or whatever but thats just not proper behavior to me. It has nothing to do with my Georgian beliefs. Any person from any place will know that is not proper behavior. Everything has its place and time. You don't just pull out chips in the middle of the court session. That shows lack of professionalism.

 

[Bachaveli]

Didn't he just say the judge was not on a break when she started eating chips?

She did not take a break, break like lunch break. She took a break and I meant to say recess, like timeout where she went through some paperwork.

 

[S O F I]

Didn't he just say the judge was not on a break when she started eating chips?

Did you ever go to court for a traffic ticket or a DUI? They say be there about 9am, but you wait about 3 hours and then at 12pm, right before your turn, judge calls recess. She/he's been working all morning and it's time to rest. You're obviously mad, but hey, he/she went to law school.

Any person from any place will know that is not proper behavior.

Well, I don't think so and neither does Preach so...

 

[Bachaveli]

You're just saying that to 'win' the argument or to have the last word but you know that is not a proper behavior.

 

[Da_Funk]

My viewpoint is such that, who leads our children's minds? Is it a particular political representative, is it a particular academic teaching, or is it an artist?

Philosophy is a subject that pervades all subjects. Its main application is through Art. For art is as diverse as philosophy is. Philosophy and art are the bread and butter for the toast of thinking. Art has endless forms, just like there are endless perspectives from which to approach things from.

Science > Art > Philosophy. Imo.

 

[Chronic]

Yeshua I think if you don't want this thread to get side-tracked you should give your definition of philosophy (just so we're all on the same point) and then briefly state what exactly you want to talk about.

Maybe it's just me but I don't really get what you're saying. I understand all the individual posts but I don't really see the question I'm supposed to discuss.

Is there a clear difference between the philosophy you're talking about and making an attempt to see the world how it really is (through science for example, evolution has helped me understand myself a lot better)? Is it philosophy to understand the way the human mind and a society work and rejecting pre-conceived notions in light of this?

 

[masta247]

Science > Art > Philosophy. Imo.

exactly