God is a noun

[masta247]

So I guess that literally everybody's got a different vision of God even if they represent the same religion etc.

But yeah you said that it's philosophy. You are right.
To me God is not a person I could see etc. That would be actually naive to think that way.
My faith and my religion = my philisophy.
So I believe in things that are elements of religions but I consider them as a philisophy and I believe in some higher meaning to them, not some super-mighty shit - I'm just a positive spiritual (not the crazy type) dude and my experiences made me think the way I do now and they created my philosophy and thoughts on religions and God.
I believe in higher values, I believe in justice (I made it short by saying Karma) because that's how in my opinion good world works and that's my faith.

 

[Da_Funk]

God is a mere figment of the human imagination. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.

 

[Bender]

i'm actually starting to like you now. thought you were a god-lover. but yeah, that's what i mean. god is whatever makes me thing living is fun enough so as to not prefer to not live. whether it's the idea of some higher being who created everything or of it's science or if it's my own self and the things that matter to me on an instinctive level, they are all experiences that can be compared to what a religious person feels when he is in contact with god.

like you said, god is a word, when religious people say it, like, traditionally religious people, i get pissed because half of them just say it because they think it's trend although it went off about 10 years ago, the other half because they are morons who envision some sort of ethereal being who casts lightening bolts and shit. to me god is the force if life.

I wouldn't say that I was a God lover, I don't see myself as being religious. Though I do read and take interest in different types of religion and the different perspectives they hold. I'm more philosophical.

I hold philosophy above religion.

In china/Japan, they don't have one religion, they have several. And each different one has its own methods of practice and beliefs. It's own different branch. Belief systems like Taoism, have both a religious side and a philosophical side.

I think philosophy should be the new religion in society. Like Plato said in Republic:
The society we have described can never grow into a reality or see the light of day, and there will be no end to the troubles of states, or indeed, my dear Glaucon, of humanity itself, till philosophers are kings in this world, or till those we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers, and political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands, while the many natures now content to follow either to the exclusion of the other are forcibly debarred from doing so. This is what I have hesitated to say so long, knowing what a paradox it would sound; for it is not easy to see that there is no other road to happiness, either for society or the individual.

I was never taught philosophy on the national curriculum. Yet if our fathers want us to grow up wise and prosper, why not teach us the 'love of knowledge' which is Philosophy? Why ... because philosophy clashes with religion and politics. Two founding stones of society. This would cause problems. I could see why my for-fathers wouldn't want me growing up all wise and knowing, because they'd know that once I came up I'd be looking to take over and over throw.


I feel that philosophy can be applied to any subject, like religion here. The more one comes to know and understand something then that knowledge can take on a kind of spiritual and Godly level.

God is a mere figment of the human imagination. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.

Yes. we must be able to separate the mental concepts that we have in our mind with the word forms that we connect with them. Instead of thinking that they are one and the same.

 

[Preach]

^^
agreed

 

[masta247]

no no I think it's slightly wrong. Philosophy is religion and politics.
Here I have to study philosophy at school, the owner of my school just loves philosophy and he's all about it.

I see you guys love philosophy and all that but Yeshua, IMO you overrate it. Of course it's important to know the basics and have knowledge on your own philosophy but you quoted Plato's where he said what was prooven wrong.
Philosophy is not = knowledge. It's a way to see knowledge and understand basic things in life.

There are also different branches of philosophy itself and you can see it in Religion, Politics, Psychology the same way as Chemist sees Chemical stuff everywhere but it's not necessarily important and doesn't affect anything.
I study in humanistic class, I grew to see that things aren't just about humanism and that neither philosophy or psychology is that important. Tho religion is power. I'm not really religious, I'm spiritual and while is also connected with my philosophy it is not it itself. On the other hand you from a philosophical point of view may see my whole opinion and whole persona as a philosophy but no matter what it just won't be accurate. You can call for example Buddhism a philosophy but it's more common to call it religion while it's interpretation is personal and different to everybody practicing it because everybody undersands it differently.

I always was a humanist but I came to that level where I understood that neither philosophy or humanism is a knowledge. They both just try to look like they are some higher knowledges while they are just trying to interpret basic relations in life. They cover a very small knowledge range and mostly trying to understand too much philosophy in everything is a waste of time, while religion is something that if confronted could move the whole world. Either cure or destroy it. It's a power. Because of small religion-based conflicts we've got major wars and milions people dying.
On the other hand religion makes you more valuable spiritually and being good spiritually is a cure for the world today.
We live in the world where most deeper-values got forgotten.
What's a better way to make people act better?

 

[Preach]

thing is that now we are starting to define expressions and words and differentiating religion, politics and philosophy. what does it matter? those are human terms. the idea is that it is all a part of the universe and neither can describe an entire belief system, only a specific one. my entire belief system does not revolve around "god", as it does with people who choose to put their faith in the hands of god. whatever concoction of matter and energy any random christian individual envisions in their own head when the word is spoken, the general meaning is the same for all of them.

i, however, choose to not be so selective as to choose to believe in either philosophy or religion or science. i would choose religion to believe in last though. i believe in whatever binds all these things together - i believe in the universe. the universe is my god.

 

[masta247]

you mean really really religious Christians.
I think there's just a minority of Christians who believe in everything written in the Bible or that God is a human who can do everything, sparks lightnings etc.

I think I can't understand faith in the universe, I probably get it wrong but what do you expect from the universe?
Universe is everything around us, so do you just believe in everything that exists? Like there are no spiritual things in your mind at all?

I think that whole spiritualism is totally misunderstood by most but it's the whole another case. There are natural laws that make the world go around.
In this life here I base everything on my own experience, harsh facts like science, philosophy but I also respect that there are people, mostly fanatics who base everything on their own mostly unrealistic image, this doesn't change the fact that they have the power, it's just not comparable to things they usually believe.
For example islam - one dude can kill hundreds of people for his own faith because he believes that it's good. Of course he misunderstood the point of his religion but the misunderstood islam became his religion.
Who knows what is he thinking doing that?
Anyway his religion destroys ethic point of seeing what is good and what is wrong.
Religion like Buddhism or Catholism affect person's values because of it's spiritualism. You know that people following Buddhism or Catholism are good from ethic point of view.
On the other hand that point of view was formed from Catholism as whole ethic is based on it but it's a whole another story.
Anyway my point is that good religion is only good and is a really great thing that makes people and thus the whole world better. That's why we should respect it, respect people believing and everybody who takes religion's philosophies, modifies it to the modern world's conditions and lives by it - it's what in my opinion is religion these days and that's what people should do. And my definition of God in this context is something higher that judges our actions and uses our own conscience to help us. I also believe that total coincidents = god's actions.
Thinking about God as a lightning sparking guy is dumb of course, it's a fantasy not religion.

 

[Bender]

I think that man created God as an Ideal people could conform to.
Realising his own imperfections man cojured up the concept of the perfect being who was creator and master of all. One to reside on the judging of all others, so that man wouldn't have to do it himself. Religion was then born into a social system which was taught to others, to teach them in ways of morality and existence. God became the all mighty and powerfull entity that didn't exist. A story told to all far and wide.
Now, humans live in a world where anything goes. We live in a world of conflict where all we need are 2pac cds and the internet to educate and entertain us.
Tell me what is the future of this God?

 

[masta247]

Again it depends on how you see God.
As I said I don't believe that it's a perfect human being with extra powers like some people still believe.

I believe in "God" but as I said it's just something else to me.
I believe in spirituality but on a normal earthy level.

Yeah I have to agree on that part about religion. It was most probably created to teach ethics and to make people better thus I think that religion is a really good thing.

I can't tell the future of God but I think that future of most religions is quite bright. The worse the world gets - religions get stronger. It's always a balance. There's never all bad or all good, there has to be a balance between good and bad - that's how it was always and that's how it is now, so I hope that's also how it will be in the future. When it gets bad (wars, deaths etc.) even non-religious people start to believe just to have a faith that could help them survive.

Also I won't agree that people should realise that God doesn't exist and that it's just imagination. Faith in God only helps people thru hard times, if people realised all the facts from our harsh reality and accepted them as it is everybody would be depressed. One of the fundamental points in our mind's existance is to hope, to have a faith in something better and to strive to live that way. That also makes people around you better and that makes the whole world better in the long run.
So faith in God and religions are good, there's no point in making others think that those are all lies, even if you think that way. It's like telling a mentally ill human that he's a down or telling a guy who lost his legs that he's a nature's failure even if you think that way.

PS. 2pac cd's and internet as entertaining tool is probably somewhere at the end of my list. Those are just basic, superficial values . Fortunately there are many high-valued people, many of them keep their faiths in God and their spiruality comes from religion. If they didn't ever believe in that religion they probably wouldn't be spiritual thus they wouldn't live by any deeper values.
Human with deeper values are usually good human = religions are good, faith in God is good even if you think that he doesn't exist.

modern blasphemy = questioning the good.

 

[Bender]

Again it depends on how you see God.
As I said I don't believe that it's a perfect human being with extra powers like some people still believe.

I believe in "God" but as I said it's just something else to me.
I believe in spirituality but on a normal earthy level.

Yeah I have to agree on that part about religion. It was most probably created to teach ethics and to make people better thus I think that religion is a really good thing.

I can't tell the future of God but I think that future of most religions is quite bright. The worse the world gets - religions get stronger. It's always a balance. There's never all bad or all good, there has to be a balance between good and bad - that's how it was always and that's how it is now, so I hope that's also how it will be in the future. When it gets bad (wars, deaths etc.) even non-religious people start to believe just to have a faith that could help them survive.

Also I won't agree that people should realise that God doesn't exist and that it's just imagination. Faith in God only helps people thru hard times, if people realised all the facts from our harsh reality and accepted them as it is everybody would be depressed. One of the fundamental points in our mind's existance is to hope, to have a faith in something better and to strive to live that way. That also makes people around you better and that makes the whole world better in the long run.
So faith in God and religions are good, there's no point in making others think that those are all lies, even if you think that way. It's like telling a mentally ill human that he's a down or telling a guy who lost his legs that he's a nature's failure even if you think that way.

PS. 2pac cd's and internet as entertaining tool is probably somewhere at the end of my list. Those are just basic, superficial values . Fortunately there are many high-valued people, many of them keep their faiths in God and their spiruality comes from religion. If they didn't ever believe in that religion they probably wouldn't be spiritual thus they wouldn't live by any deeper values.
Human with deeper values are usually good human = religions are good, faith in God is good even if you think that he doesn't exist.

modern blasphemy = questioning the good.

I agree with your perspective.



I'm not trying to say that God Doesn't exist. I believe he does in certain forms, in different ways. But he isn't a Galaxy-Architect.



I probably do overrate philosophy on this subject. But if it was up to me I would have Philosophy as a main subject in everything. Then have sub-subjects like: Philosophy of religion; Philosophy of politics; Philosophy of cooking ... etc. That's just how I am. I know the French like their Philosophy. Where I come from I never had no schooling on philosophy. So now I'm grown, and I've had chance to educate myself properly, I look back on my education and feel like I had been taught false ideals/values. It's Not like in the middle east, where as soon as your old enough you get a gun and get told who your enemies are. And I'm thinking that America is popular here. They probably don't get taught philosophy at degree level, but they don't have to put up with bullshit ideals like materialism. And I bet their will and belief in God is a lot stronger too.

 

[Glockmatic]

It's not just philosophy. Education as a whole erodes the notion of religion. There is a reason why impoverished nations are so religious while richer countries aren't as much. Apply science and logic to what you don't know instead of going straight to an invisible man in the stars.

 

[TecK NeeX]

It's not just philosophy. Education as a whole erodes the notion of religion.

Education doesnt erode Religion. Thats an individual opinion. There are countless people who are well educated and yet their faith in religion is as strong as ever.

There is a reason why impoverished nations are so religious while richer countries aren't as much.

Are you saying religion breeds poverty? How so? Religion itself encourages advancement. I can name you just as many religious nations that are flourishing as non-religious and vice versa

Apply science and logic to what you don't know instead of going straight to an invisible man in the stars.

There is no invisible man 'in' the stars, there never was..


I see you havent changed a tad bit.

 

[Glockmatic]

Education doesnt erode Religion. Thats an individual opinion. There are countless people who are well educated and yet their faith in religion is as strong as ever.

Its not opinion, it's fact. As people become more educated, the number of Atheists have grown.

Are you saying religion breeds poverty? How so? Religion itself encourages advancement. I can name you just as many religious nations that are flourishing as non-religious and vice versa

I'm not saying religion breeds poverty. The more impoverished a country is the less education they receive simply because they can't afford it. When you're starving and trying to make it in life you don't have time to question life, but in "rich" countries people have the education and time to do such things.

"Religious" countries, as in Theocracies? Name some.

There is no invisible man 'in' the stars, there never was..

Good to see that we agree on something.

I see you havent changed a tad bit.

Meh, I've changed some

 

[masta247]

No Glockmatic

Education doesn't erode Religion really. Science does a bit tho.
Number of atheists grow when science evolves and when politics doesn't erode with churches.
But the most educated countries are religious countries (whole Europe, Japan etc. - so most educated nations are religious)
Many Americans are not religious because they don't come from that religious countries - they come from all over the world (counting really uneducated people who couldn't make it in their mother countries). Other thing is that America teaches the materialistic way of thinking, same as few other countries.
It's terribly wrong, it destroys the proper way of thinking and seeing world and themselves as it is. People who fall for it are usually not religious and not too well educated.

"There is no invisible man 'in' the stars, there never was.."
Nobody claims that there ever was an "invisible man in the stars". No religion teaches that Glockmatic.

PS. The only "poorer" religious countries I could possibly think of all lay in South America. Eventually africa if you count their religions.

 

[Duke]

No Glockmatic

Education doesn't erode Religion really. Science does a bit tho.
Number of atheists grow when science evolves and when politics doesn't erode with churches.
But the most educated countries are religious countries (whole Europe, Japan etc. - so most educated nations are religious)
Many Americans are not religious because they don't come from that religious countries - they come from all over the world (counting really uneducated people who couldn't make it in their mother countries). Other thing is that America teaches the materialistic way of thinking, same as few other countries.
It's terribly wrong, it destroys the proper way of thinking and seeing world and themselves as it is. People who fall for it are usually not religious and not too well educated.

"There is no invisible man 'in' the stars, there never was.."
Nobody claims that there ever was an "invisible man in the stars". No religion teaches that Glockmatic.

PS. The only "poorer" religious countries I could possibly think of all lay in South America. Eventually africa if you count their religions.

Americans are not religious?

You need a reality check. The United States were founded on the very principle of religious equality. The first settlers and pioneers were people persecuted because of their religion. And later people came from Ireland, Italy, many Jews from Russia, Poland and Germany. And even now religion still has a strong hold on American life. Look at all the lobbies, the tv-reverends, hell, America is the only Western country I know of that never properly seperated church and state. Now America is a big country and certainly not everyone lives in the Bible Belt, votes Bush and listens to Al Sharpton, but saying America isn't a religious country just blows my socks off.

 

[Glockmatic]

Education doesn't erode Religion really. Science does a bit tho.

Science is education.

But the most educated countries are religious countries (whole Europe, Japan etc. - so most educated nations are religious)

I wouldn't say they're "religious" countries because they are secular countries. The number of religious people in Europe is going down. From USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-02-21-god-europe_x.htm

Today, just 21% of Europeans say religion is "very important" to them, according to the most recent European Values Study, which tracks attitudes in 32 European countries. A survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that nearly three times as many Americans, 59%, called their faith "very important."

You haven't been paying attention to US politics recently. Religion is a HUGE part of American society. Where else in the world would they ask a presidential candidate "Do you believe in the theory of evolution?" There have been huge debates on whether creationism should be taught in US schools. George W Bush said that Atheists shouldn't be US citizens. I don't see anything like this in other countries.

"There is no invisible man 'in' the stars, there never was.."
Nobody claims that there ever was an "invisible man in the stars". No religion teaches that Glockmatic.

You're taking my words literally.

 

[masta247]

Americans are not religious?

You need a reality check. The United States were founded on the very principle of religious equality. The first settlers and pioneers were people persecuted because of their religion. And later people came from Ireland, Italy, many Jews from Russia, Poland and Germany. And even now religion still has a strong hold on American life. Look at all the lobbies, the tv-reverends, hell, America is the only Western country I know of that never properly seperated church and state. Now America is a big country and certainly not everyone lives in the Bible Belt, votes Bush and listens to Al Sharpton, but saying America isn't a religious country just blows my socks off.

I don't mean that America is not a religious country, I mean that there are less Religious people than there was before because of the modern materialistic philosophy. Also there are many total atheists. America is also a mixture of people from different cultures so some are total atheists, some are muslims, some catholics etc. Of course there are many religious people but let's say honestly that there's a big part of people who are totally against religions.
For example in european countries there are basically no atheists (less than 2% I think). In countries like Poland or Italy more than 90% are Catholic so compared to that America becomes much less religious than it was.

 

[masta247]

Science is not education. Science is a part of education.
Education is also relgion, philosophy etc.

European countries and Japan are pure religious.

Of course religion is not as important as it was because of new modern values implemented by America and western european countries. There are many more things to care for but still people are religious.

 

[Glockmatic]

For example in european countries there are basically no atheists (less than 2% I think).

Europe is one of the most atheist continents on Earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europe_belief_in_god_upd.png

 

[Duke]

I don't mean that America is not a religious country, I mean that there are less Religious people than there was before because of the modern materialistic philosophy. Also there are many total atheists. America is also a mixture of people from different cultures so some are total atheists, some are muslims, some catholics etc. Of course there are many religious people but let's say honestly that there's a big part of people who are totally against religions.
For example in european countries there are basically no atheists (less than 2% I think). In countries like Poland or Italy more than 90% are Catholic so compared to that America becomes much less religious than it was.

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but they're blatantly wrong. Less than 2% non-believers in Europe? lol.

Religion everywhere in the world is on the decline because of increased wealth, education and also, globalisation. There are only a few hot spots where religion is still just as strong as it was, say, 260 years ago, and even fewer that see a current increase in believers relative to the overal population.

Second, when you look at the entire Western world, the US is easily the most religious country of the bunch. By a mile. Take into account that pure numbers really mean squat. You can have 80% of a country's population that are docile believers that don't put through any extremistic shit and for whom religion only plays a minor part in life anymore.

Then you have country two with 45% believers, 30% of which are hardcore. Then what is the more religious country, in effect? Country two.

And when you look at how religion is intertwined in American politics and economics, it's almost startling for the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world.