Cultural differences between men and women ''nature or ''nurture''?

[Bachaveli]

Do cultural differences between men and women come from ''nature'' or ''nurture''? Another words do men and women inherit their motives and what they do and stuff like that from their parents and ancestors or do they learn from society, media and their surroundings?


- Men don't share secrets.
- Men don't show off their emotions.
- Most men enjoy sports.
- Most men portray as tough and bravely.
- Men are usually ''heroes''
- Men mostly hang out in outdoors.
- Men are less social.
- Men make friends with their own sex. (Boys play with plays.)
- Once men are in a ''group'', they must jockey for their status.

- Women do share secrets.
- Women like to gossip.
- Women like to shop.
- Women are housewives (they cook and clean. while men work.)
- Women socialize more than men do.
- Women are more conservative.
- Women portray as soft and tender.
- Women don't make as much friends with males as they do with their own sex.


So, what do you think? Is it the ''nature'' or ''nurture''? I think its little bit of both. But I wanna get into details as to why and stuff like that.

 

[Preach]

and im just gonna help you a bit there: i will spike the modem of any idiot who thinks he's/she's a genius for pointing out the obvious stereotyping in this thread. i'm sure we are supposed to connect the dots, not get caught up in why Bachaveli thinks all women act as housewives.

i will speak on this later. proceed.

 

[Bachaveli]

No, nothing genius about pointing out these differences. Just a way to get people thinking.

 

[Devious]

No, nothing genius about pointing out these differences. Just a way to get people thinking.

i think the only thing people are thinking after reading this thread is that you are a stereotypical, sexist idiot. of course there are differences between the sexes, but your idea of what women are like sounds like it came right out of the 1950's. you do realize that more than half of the women in the world work now, and are more than just housewives who cook and clean? man if you said shit like this around my girlfriend she'd claw your eyes out.

 

[Bachaveli]

i think the only thing people are thinking after reading this thread is that you are a stereotypical, sexist idiot. of course there are differences between the sexes, but your idea of what women are like sounds like it came right out of the 1950's. you do realize that more than half of the women in the world work now, and are more than just housewives who cook and clean? man if you said shit like this around my girlfriend she'd claw your eyes out.

Yea, your girlfriend would probably fall under that category that women these days are more manly behaved who don't represent the real traditional women characters. Women who fight women, women who are loud mouth talking waste of space, women who control and oppress their men (the worse of all).

Obviously I was speaking from the traditional perspective you nimple. Of course women do work more now days and women do more than just cooking and cleaning. Maybe so much that they exceed their limits and forget the real value of women. Like when they are being treated as sex objects and your girlfriend seems to be the perfect example.

 

[Devious]

Yea, your girlfriend would probably fall under that category that women these days are more manly behaved who don't represent the real traditional women characters. Women who fight women, women who are loud mouth talking waste of space, women who control and oppress their men (the worse of all).

Obviously I was speaking from the traditional perspective you nimple. Of course women do work more now days and women do more than just cooking and cleaning. Maybe so much that they exceed their limits and forget the real value of women. Like when they are being treated as sex objects and your girlfriend seems to be the perfect example.

ok, first of all, you are an idiot. there is no other way around it. you are just an idiot. you talk about people you don't know as if you do know them (like syn) and all you do is prove that you don't know shit about anything. so because women were essentially forced into slavery by men over the centuries, that means that is their tradition? women cooked and cleaned and had babies because that's all they were allowed to do. they weren't allowed to work (and if they were it would only be menial jobs that don't pay shit), they weren't allowed to vote, basically like i said, they were slaves. they are allowed to do these things now, and because they choose to do them you think they are forgetting their "traditional values?" did the slaves forget their tradition when they were freed and stopped picking cotton for the white man? or did they just choose not to do it anymore once they weren't being forced to do it?

it's clear you don't value or respect women at all, so maybe instead of being mad at them and attacking them every chance you get you should make an effort to understand what women are about these days. or maybe you want to go back into the stone age where you can drag your women around by the hair and treat them as slaves, since you think that's all they are. seriously, i hope you enjoy being single, because with your attitudes towards women, you're gonna be best friends with your hand for life.

 

[masta247]

Those are all stereotypes, I know at least the same amount of men doing what you said is a women habit as well as the other way around.

The only thing is that society these days works in a strange way and some things are ok for women while they are "forbidden" for men so they either have to hide it or just hang out with friends who act in a similar way.

What you said is either a stereotype or something formed by modern media as how should men act like and how should women act like.

 

[Devious]

Those are all stereotypes, I know at least the same amount of men doing what you said is a women habit as well as the other way around.

The only thing is that society these days works in a strange way and some things are ok for women while they are "forbidden" for men so they either have to hide it or just hang out with friends who act in a similar way.

What you said is either a stereotype or something formed by modern media as how should men act like and how should women act like.

modern media? he's talking about stone age values. it seems like he likes his women barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen and mute. really Bach, you should build a time machine and go back about a hundred years, when women were opressed. you'd love it.

 

[masta247]

modern media? he's talking about stone age values. it seems like he likes his women barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen and mute. really Bach, you should build a time machine and go back about a hundred years, when women were opressed. you'd love it.

I was refering to his first post when I think he meant modern times and modern habits.

 

[Bachaveli]

ok, first of all, you are an idiot. there is no other way around it. you are just an idiot. you talk about people you don't know as if you do know them (like syn) and all you do is prove that you don't know shit about anything. so because women were essentially forced into slavery by men over the centuries, that means that is their tradition? women cooked and cleaned and had babies because that's all they were allowed to do. they weren't allowed to work (and if they were it would only be menial jobs that don't pay shit), they weren't allowed to vote, basically like i said, they were slaves. they are allowed to do these things now, and because they choose to do them you think they are forgetting their "traditional values?" did the slaves forget their tradition when they were freed and stopped picking cotton for the white man? or did they just choose not to do it anymore once they weren't being forced to do it?

it's clear you don't value or respect women at all, so maybe instead of being mad at them and attacking them every chance you get you should make an effort to understand what women are about these days. or maybe you want to go back into the stone age where you can drag your women around by the hair and treat them as slaves, since you think that's all they are. seriously, i hope you enjoy being single, because with your attitudes towards women, you're gonna be best friends with your hand for life.

First of all, we can insult back and worth all day long and trust me mine will surpass yours.

Now, why do you bringing up slavery issue? what does that have to do with anything. I didn't even mention a slave word so I don't know why you feel the need to talk about that. All I was saying was that women these days are more versatile. They can do more things now days than ever before. Some are so that they forget the real value or the character of what the women is suppose to be like. Some enjoy this ''fredoom'' so much that they do things that aren't women like. That doesn't mean they have to go back and be slaves to their men you moron. Its simply means women days these don't seem to carry the traditional ways like being the housewives that we all like to see in women, being in the house cooking and nourishing their children instead of being out in clubs wasting themselves. Women who have manly behaviors like those who fight just because some girl looked at his man. Women who have loud mouth and talk and control more in the relationship than the man does. Even take lesbians. Thats not the traditional women ways.

 

[Devious]

First of all, we can insult back and worth all day long and trust me mine will surpass yours.

Now, why do you bringing up slavery issue? what does that have to do with anything. I didn't even mention a slave word so I don't know why you feel the need to talk about that. All I was saying was that women these days are more versatile. They can do more things now days than ever before. Some are so that they forget the real value or the character of what the women is suppose to be like. Some enjoy this ''fredoom'' so much that they do things that aren't women like. That doesn't mean they have to go back and be slaves to their men you moron. Its simply means women days these don't seem to carry the traditional ways like being the housewives that we all like to see in women, being in the house cooking and nourishing their children instead of being out in clubs wasting themselves. Women who have manly behaviors like those who fight just because some girl looked at his man. Women who have loud mouth and talk and control more in the relationship than the man does. Even take lesbians. Thats not the traditional women ways.

slaves were what women were (and in some places and ways, still are) for centuries, and most of the stereotypes you put upon them come from that. some women choose to be housewives nowadays, and that is cool. some choose to live their lives outside of what you term "traditional values" and that is cool too. basically you have been saying that women who aren't housewives and do more than cook and clean are forgetting their traditions and i say bullshit. the traditions you speak of were forced upon them, and for them to shake off those chains of oppression hardly means that they have forgotten their values. it means they choose to live their lives in a different way now that they have a choice. if you don't get that then i really don't know what to say, but women are, and should be seen as, more than just cooking, cleaning baby machines.

 

[Bachaveli]

slaves were what women were (and in some places and ways, still are) for centuries, and most of the stereotypes you put upon them come from that. some women choose to be housewives nowadays, and that is cool. some choose to live their lives outside of what you term "traditional values" and that is cool too. basically you have been saying that women who aren't housewives and do more than cook and clean are forgetting their traditions and i say bullshit. the traditions you speak of were forced upon them, and for them to shake off those chains of oppression hardly means that they have forgotten their values. it means they choose to live their lives in a different way now that they have a choice. if you don't get that then i really don't know what to say, but women are, and should be seen as, more than just cooking, cleaning baby machines.

Not everywhere were slaves and I'm not speaking of slaves right now. I'm saying women should be like women. They should be housewives, fragile, romantic, tender and soft. They should be carrying the characteristics of what woman is like. Yes they should be seen as more than just housewives and coks and cleaners, but at the same time you don't want women to be manly, dominant over man,abusive seen as sex object. Which is what we are seeing these days.

Anyway, this thread isn't about this. Its about discussing wheather its nature or nurture that the differences between men and women come from.

 

[Devious]

Not everywhere were slaves and I'm not speaking of slaves right now. I'm saying women should be like women. They should be housewives, fragile, romantic, tender and soft. They should be carrying the characteristics of what woman is like. Yes they should be seen as more than just housewives and coks and cleaners, but at the same time you don't want women to be manly, dominant over man,abusive seen as sex object. Which is what we are seeing these days.

Anyway, this thread isn't about this. Its about discussing wheather its nature or nurture that the differences between men and women come from.

and i'm saying that there is no set definition of what a woman should be like. women are people too, with their own agendas and personalities, and maybe you should learn to respect that. and once again i say that these values and traditions you see women having were for the most part forced on them, so it isn't their nature, it's just what they were expected to do. now that they are not forced to do these things any more, some choose to explore their boundaries. i hear what you're saying about some women being trash and going to the club rather than take care of their kids, but it isn't because they forgot their values or traditions. they are just making bad decisions.

 

[S O F I]

^There's no evidence to support your notion of "it isn't their nature, it's what they were forced to do". Just because women are now fully in the work force and can do "manly jobs", it doesn't mean they were meant to do these things.

 

[Devious]

^There's no evidence to support your notion of "it isn't their nature, it's what they were forced to do". Just because women are now fully in the work force and can do "manly jobs", it doesn't mean they were meant to do these things.

ok, i can agree to that. but where is the evidence that says they were meant to do that? it can't be proven for either side really. it just happens to be what i believe, only an opinion. just like what Bach is saying is only an opinion, but he seems to be trying to pass it off as fact.

 

[Chronic]

Part of what makes us human is our ability to ignore our instincts. Just because nature formed us a certain way doesn't mean we should always act upon our instincts.

Our nature influenced the way our cultures developed. In turn this culture solidifies/influences certain behavior in people. For example, our culture developed so that women are used as sex objects in music videos. Seeing this might change people's perspective (nurture) but the fact that so many women actually enjoy being put in this position comes back to nature.

It's mostly nature but our culture certainly contributes a great deal.

 

[S O F I]

ok, i can agree to that. but where is the evidence that says they were meant to do that? it can't be proven for either side really. it just happens to be what i believe, only an opinion. just like what Bach is saying is only an opinion, but he seems to be trying to pass it off as fact.

I think to a certain extent, women who strive for and attain big careers shortchange themselves when it comes to their nature. I like to think of women as nurturing, caring, and I think the true essence of a woman is one who nurtures and cares for her man and for her children. A woman brings herself great happiness when she sees that she has pleased her man to the fullest. This has been going on for thousands of years. Women who attain these big careers and don't conceive children up until in their 30s lose some of those nurturing and caring characteristics, I'd argue. Of course, I'm generalizing a bit, but in debates like this, you certainly have to. Now, you might think that's misogynistic of me, but I hope that you do not. I am all for gender equality.

 

[Preach]

I think to a certain extent, women who strive for and attain big careers shortchange themselves when it comes to their nature. I like to think of women as nurturing, caring, and I think the true essence of a woman is one who nurtures and cares for her man and for her children. A woman brings herself great happiness when she sees that she has pleased her man to the fullest. This has been going on for thousands of years. Women who attain these big careers and don't conceive children up until in their 30s lose some of those nurturing and caring characteristics, I'd argue. Of course, I'm generalizing a bit, but in debates like this, you certainly have to. Now, you might think that's misogynistic of me, but I hope that you do not. I am all for gender equality.

I really do agree with this, and this whole discussion is interesting.

A few facts. From the dawn of monkeys, female specimen have normally had to take care of children, seeing as how the children did pop out of them. During pregnancy, biochemical processes in the body affect the psyche. The motherhood syndrome. The fight-for-the-life-of-you-AND-your-kid instinct kicks in. Males are generally stronger than females, and this is true for I think every mammal. Most, anyway. It's natural for the strongest to be the fighters, the hunters, so it's pretty obvious why the male slipped into that role. It also fits well with the fact that the females have children to take care of while the male is just sitting around. I mean look at all animals, this is how it works, they have children and then the mother takes care of most of the looking after the kids. While the males do the hunting. Lions are an exception, STFU.

So it seems, from nature's side, it's natural for women to be, like you said, caressing and nurturing. While it is natural for males to be dominant and masculine. Soon as either party chooses to deviate from these standards, not only do the parts of our brains that are programmed by social constructs sense it, but out instincts sense that something's not right.

I don't like loud women. I don't like women who'll bend over sticking their ass right up in the sky (unless they are bendy enough to do it with straight legs, then it's sexy), i don't like it when women try and take control. Whenever my mother talks about things like politics, morals, ethics, etc etc they are all soaked in naivety and pink clouds. Don't get me wrong, I love my mother, and she is a very good mother, but she's the typical mother. The housewife. The more uh, restrained type of woman. The way I see my mother has been a vital part of the forming of my idea of a woman, so it's not surprising, but I really do think that women are so much better when they are mild.

Another key point. The fact that some women are so dead set on not being the traditional woman, the fact that female liberation rights and feminism is being practiced everywhere and the fact that pretty much every other woman on this planet has made it her life's mission to not be a victim to "the man" again could easily make them lose focus. You know when you're so set on winning something that you fail to see who you hurt in the process? I don't remember where, but that phrase MUST have been used in a movie, this is typical movie cliche shit. When every woman is fighting for women, they forget that there's a man there too, you know.

Now I have to be scared of having sex. (This is a joke Sofi, not admittance of weak psyche nor less favorable looks ).

 

[Bachaveli]

and i'm saying that there is no set definition of what a woman should be like. women are people too, with their own agendas and personalities, and maybe you should learn to respect that. and once again i say that these values and traditions you see women having were for the most part forced on them, so it isn't their nature, it's just what they were expected to do. now that they are not forced to do these things any more, some choose to explore their boundaries. i hear what you're saying about some women being trash and going to the club rather than take care of their kids, but it isn't because they forgot their values or traditions. they are just making bad decisions.

I don't know whether there is a set definition of what a woman should be like or not, but I do know that God created a woman to be a woman. Man to be a man. (women to be with men and vice versa. no I don't think God created homosexuals or lesbians, but this is a different debate). To me that woman is tender, romantic, soft that nourishes her children and takes care of her husband. Your justification of women these days are loud, manly and don't posses ''traditional values'' because they were forced to some circumstances that made them this way. I don't believe that. And you want me to respect women who are loud talking, dominant that don't posses any quality that a woman should have? No, I have no respect for this women.

 

[Devious]

I think to a certain extent, women who strive for and attain big careers shortchange themselves when it comes to their nature. I like to think of women as nurturing, caring, and I think the true essence of a woman is one who nurtures and cares for her man and for her children. A woman brings herself great happiness when she sees that she has pleased her man to the fullest. This has been going on for thousands of years. Women who attain these big careers and don't conceive children up until in their 30s lose some of those nurturing and caring characteristics, I'd argue. Of course, I'm generalizing a bit, but in debates like this, you certainly have to. Now, you might think that's misogynistic of me, but I hope that you do not. I am all for gender equality.

see, i have no problem with what you said here, in fact i agree with most of it. what bothers me is when Bach says women who don't have that nurturing, caring side are going against their nature, which is to cook and clean and have babies and basically be a maid. i don't agree with that sentiment because it implies that all women were created for that purpose, and those who choose not to follow that are forgetting their traditional values. i will say it again, that's bullshit.

now there is definitely no doubt that women in general are more gentle and nurturing than men, but not all women are nurturing and gentle, nor should they all be. and i don't particularly agree with your sentiment that women lose some of that nurturing and caring part of them if they wait until they are older to have children. in fact most women who pursue business careers prefer to have children after they have become successful at what they do because it gives them more time to be with their kids, and they will probably benefit from that.